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Forums - Politics Discussion - America set to welcome its 51st state to the union

Squilliam on 08 November 2012

I guess when Australia becomes the 52nd to 57th states of America and they collect a few more they can get back to an even 60.



Tease.

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slow69 on 08 November 2012

I am from Puerto Rico and believe me is not going to happen everything in this electoral process was not approved by the united states congress, because it was "unfair ".



I am the new kid in town!!!

slow69 on 08 November 2012
the_dengle said:
Troll_Whisperer said:
61% of 54% is just a 33% voting for statehood. I don't know much of this whole process as I'm not American but if the referendum is not binding then I can see politicians using this as an argument against them joining.

The whole process seems weird. Why break it up into two questions at all? Why not just ask:

Which do you want?

A -- No change
B -- Statehood
C -- More autonomy
D -- Total independence

It seems like in that case, A would have gotten about 46% of the vote, B about 33%, C about 18%, and D the remaining 3%.

But, apparently, that may not be what actually happened. These numbers have it that about 1.7 to 1.8 million total votes were cast in the election; "more than 900,000 voters, or 54%" voted to change the status quo on the first question. (By my calculations that would mean about 1.7 million voted on the first question).

One would assume, because of the way the questions were phrased, that only those roughly 900,000 voters would have responded to the second question -- yet evidently about 1.3 million answered it. So that 61% is actually 61% of 1.3 million, not out of the initial 54%. "Nearly 800,000" voted for statehood directly in the second question. About 510,000 combined for the other two options in that question, while "less than 500,000" abstained from that question entirely.

So, if we use a base of about 1.7-1.8 million voters, about 43-47% of them voted for statehood. About 46% voted for the status quo in the first question, while only 28-29% voted for the status quo 'by default' in the second question by abstaining.

We need more accurate numbers, and Puerto Rico needed a single, crystal-clear question. I wonder whether it's possible whoever wrote the questions wants the status quo to change in some way, and designed the questions to lead to that end. That would be pretty manipulative, but this is politics, so I wouldn't be surprised.

Actually you are quite right, are you from Puerto Rico?



I am the new kid in town!!!

the_dengle on 08 November 2012
slow69 said:
the_dengle said:

The whole process seems weird. Why break it up into two questions at all? Why not just ask:

Which do you want?

A -- No change
B -- Statehood
C -- More autonomy
D -- Total independence

It seems like in that case, A would have gotten about 46% of the vote, B about 33%, C about 18%, and D the remaining 3%.

But, apparently, that may not be what actually happened. These numbers have it that about 1.7 to 1.8 million total votes were cast in the election; "more than 900,000 voters, or 54%" voted to change the status quo on the first question. (By my calculations that would mean about 1.7 million voted on the first question).

One would assume, because of the way the questions were phrased, that only those roughly 900,000 voters would have responded to the second question -- yet evidently about 1.3 million answered it. So that 61% is actually 61% of 1.3 million, not out of the initial 54%. "Nearly 800,000" voted for statehood directly in the second question. About 510,000 combined for the other two options in that question, while "less than 500,000" abstained from that question entirely.

So, if we use a base of about 1.7-1.8 million voters, about 43-47% of them voted for statehood. About 46% voted for the status quo in the first question, while only 28-29% voted for the status quo 'by default' in the second question by abstaining.

We need more accurate numbers, and Puerto Rico needed a single, crystal-clear question. I wonder whether it's possible whoever wrote the questions wants the status quo to change in some way, and designed the questions to lead to that end. That would be pretty manipulative, but this is politics, so I wouldn't be surprised.

Actually you are quite right, are you from Puerto Rico?

No, I'm from the States. Just took a wild guess. Do you mean I'm right about someone designing the ticket to try to force a certain result? Or just that in general my analysis of the situation was fairly accurate?



the2real4mafol on 09 November 2012

Why does Puerto Rico belong to the USA? I thought it was an independent country



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sc94597 on 09 November 2012
the2real4mafol said:
Why does Puerto Rico belong to the USA? I thought it was an independent country

It's a renmant territory gained after the Spanish-American war. 



the2real4mafol on 09 November 2012
sc94597 said:
the2real4mafol said:
Why does Puerto Rico belong to the USA? I thought it was an independent country

It's a renmant territory gained after the Spanish-American war. 

I just looked it up and that was over 100 years ago, how come it wasn't considered to become a state till now?



Xbox One, PS4 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch will sell better than Wii U Lifetime Sales by Jan 1st 2018

:D on 09 November 2012
the_dengle said:
RolStoppable said:
Signalstar said:
Not really a fan of odd numbers. Maybe California will split in half or something to get us to 52.

Or drop Ohio. Nobody likes Cleveland anyway.

You guys have it backwards, we need to merge two states together to keep it at 50.

I suggest Maryland and Delaware.


North Dakota and South Dakota?



:D on 09 November 2012
the2real4mafol said:
sc94597 said:
the2real4mafol said:
Why does Puerto Rico belong to the USA? I thought it was an independent country

It's a renmant territory gained after the Spanish-American war. 

I just looked it up and that was over 100 years ago, how come it wasn't considered to become a state till now?

Good question.



Dodece on 09 November 2012

This wasn't overlooked by the community. It came up in another thread, and was discussed in that thread. That said this is as ever in the hands of Congress. Basically their opinion is the only one that matters. If they choose to see this as popular consent then it is so. This is a non-binding vote, because the residents of the island have no right to self determination. Only congress can mandate a binding resolution. None of you should confuse the nicety of letting the people express their opinion with any kind of necessity. Congress can do what it wants with or without their consent.

I know that may sound undemocratic and even a little cold blooded, but the residents of the island have spent a lot of time and effort refusing to choose a path. I have never understood how a tax benefit could possibly be so precious that you would voluntarily give up a right to vote about what happens to you. Hell I can't see how some of them can vote for independence when half the islands population lives inside the continental United States. It comes across as kind of dismissive.

Anyway the vote will probably accomplish what it set out to do in the first place. Namely it is probably going to force the issue once and for all. Congress could end up just accepting the result, and bring the Island into the Union. Congress could mandate a binding resolution, but that would probably just be a vote between statehood, and independence. Since staying put was the real loser, and greater autonomy wasn't likely to be accepted by the Congress in the first place. The US Navy likes to use the islands beaches for target practice.

In either event the result ends up being a new state. Granted it may take some time to move to the top of the agenda, but it is one of those feel good votes that improves public opinion. Don't be fooled in the least. Manifest Destiny is still powerfully symbolic with voters. When the nation gets bigger the vast majority of voters do think the nation is moving in the right direction.



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