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Forums - Microsoft - Microsoft screwed up with the Surface tablet...

...in my personal and professional opinion.

Now that things are becoming clear about the Surface device and Windows 8 launch, I can't help but feel that Surface is going to end up like another bastardized piece of hardware like the Zune.

Here are my issues with it:

1. Windows RT - Why does this thing even exist? Seriously... It doesn't run any Windows legacy software and has bugs and performance issues when running Windows on the selected Tegra 3 hardware (multiple Surface reviews stated this). It doesn't even share the ecosystem with Microsoft's other ARM based platform, Windows Phone. 120,000 launch apps that WP has would go a long way filling the gap while Windows RT app ecosystem grows to respectable levels. 

2. No benefits over x86 tablets - Couldn't Microsoft sometime in 2010 just take the billions they were about to spend on porting Windows to ARM and give it to Intel, telling them..."Here! R&D some Atom chips to use a bit less power and have them ready for mid 2012". An Acer W510 tablet which is launching on Oct 26 with a dual core Atom processor with similar specs, dimensions and weight to the Surface, only has 2 hour less battery life. Intel should bring bring battery life down to ARM level within a year...

3.Price - $499 without cover, $599 with cover. Pretty obvious it's too much money for a Win RT device. This should be $299/$399 Win RT, 499/599 Intel Atom and 799/899 Inte i3/i5 to compete with the market value for these devices.

4. No x86 version until January - I want a killer tablet for Christmas, not in January. Surface Pro sounds like it will be this killer tablet but Microsoft won't let me buy it until January.

Before people misunderstand what I am trying to say, I think Windows 8 is great. I've used it for a while on a tablet and dekstop and there is no way I can go back to Windows 7 or an iPad over a Windows 8 device. I was really looking forward to getting the Surface few months ago.

With that said, I am most likely not buying the Surface (RT or Pro) as one is not what I want and the other comes 3 months too late. With lots of other no compromise Windows 8 devices on the horizon, I dont think I will have issues finding an awesome tablet.

For anyone that is preordering the Surface and getting it day 1, do think about your purchase and what you are looking to buy versus what you are getting. You may come to the same conclusion as me.



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Apple totally ruined the Surface launch with the announcement of Ipad 4. I don't think ANYONE was expecting that.



VGKing said:
Apple totally ruined the Surface launch with the announcement of Ipad 4. I don't think ANYONE was expecting that.

lol, nah they didn't. All they did is piss off a bunch of Ipad 3 customers that bought their iPads less than 6 months ago without giving them a single reason to upgrade.



VGKing said:
Apple totally ruined the Surface launch with the announcement of Ipad 4. I don't think ANYONE was expecting that.

I don't think it did. The iPad 4 is a very minor upgrade, and no one is really talking about it, just the iPad mini.



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The apps are coming in pretty fast. Yes, it cannot run "legacy" apps but that's not to say developers can't or won't release those same legacy apps for the metro environment. Eventually, all Windows apps will be primarily metro based. It'll be a matter of time.



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Windows RT essentially splits the MS tablet market in two with Win8 Pro tablets as x86 tablet PCs with touch screens and WinRT tablets to presumably compete directly with Android and iOS tablets in terms of configuration and price. Price being the main reason as ARM based SoC tablets are simply cheaper to produce. The power management compared to Atom based hardware remains to be seen, but I don't see one progressing any faster than the other in terms of thermal efficiency.

I agree WinRT tablets are priced too high to steal significant marketshare from Android and iOS, but we'll see how the consumer market responds in the near future. 

Timing-wise, it's unfortunate that whatever you're working on requires a Win8 tablet one month sooner (three if you have to buy one on Oct 26) and probably more unfortunate for MS that they'll presumably be losing a not insignificant number of sales of Win8 Pro tablets by not having them for the holidays, but that's hardly a strike on the hardware itself. It's ready when it's ready. 

Personally, I'm not really sure what the market is for WinRT tablets either. Consumers who don't like iOS/Apple. Consumers who have been unhappy with Android solutions. Presumably consumers who are really big MS fans (ie. the ones who bought/own a Zune).

But considering that Surface Win8 Pro will likely be starting priced a good $300 over the entry level WinRT tablet, I'm going to say there's a bigger market for cheaper, albeit pared down, ARM based tablets, hence the two separate line ups. 



MaulerX said:
The apps are coming in pretty fast. Yes, it cannot run "legacy" apps but that's not to say developers can't or won't release those same legacy apps for the metro environment. Eventually, all Windows apps will be primarily metro based. It'll be a matter of time.


Even if I am bullish in thinking that the app store will be getting apps really fast, I still can't figure out what Windows RT is for. Why does it exist? The massive battery advantage Arm had in 2010 is next to gone. Considering that ATom based net books have been sold for 200-300 bucks for years now, I don't think there is a big price advantage for Arm over Intels atom.

What makes things worse is that Microsoft isn't allowing devs to port desktop apps to Win RT desktop. It's for Office and Ie10 only. Also the Office 2013 they provide on RT lacks features like micros, and can not be used for commercial use. So they obviously do not want this deployed for businesses.

Lastly not all apps will make it to Win RT. the Google search app which is really awesome is not made for RT for example. X86 only.



WinRT can't use any Windows Phone apps? Considering RT can't use any old Windows apps it seems like a strange move not including support for WP apps. It would definitely have been something to use in the meantime until native more RT apps are released.

That's exactly what Apple did with the iPad 1 release. It could use iPhone apps which even though they were stretched to fit the screen, still provided a lot until native iPad apps could be released.

I still have some iPhone only apps on my iPad as I didn't feel the need to re-buy some apps. I had an iPhone 4 before my first iPad.




starcraft: "I and every PS3 fanboy alive are waiting for Versus more than FFXIII.
Me since the games were revealed, the fanboys since E3."

Skeeuk: "playstation 3 is the ultimate in gaming acceleration"

This device is way overpriced.



I agree w/ the OP, BUT is anyone surprised by this? This is another, desperate, 'me too!' attempt by Ballmer Co., which has proven, repeatedly, that it simply can't make money outside of their core competency of OS' and Office apps. They *need* new blood in this company *desperately* and until they get rid of the dinosaurs steering the ship, repeatedly, onto the rocks, it won't happen at the top which is where it is in most desperate need of a transfusion.

 (And please: don't even bring up the XBOX brand as a "success"*--it's only a success in the sense that it, finally, after losing untold billions, is turning small profits. From a biz standpoint, the XBOX brand is another loser but in light of things like Zune (and the pile of acquisitions that turned to ****), and perhaps Surface, it's a freaking overnight success story.)

*This is not a knock on the games, so settle down fanboys.