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Forums - Politics Discussion - So Paul Ryan now rejects Rand's Objectivism.

Kasz216 on 30 April 2012
richardhutnik said:
badgenome said:
richardhutnik said:

Those are your words.  To get discussion off the GOP and so on, the SUBJECT OF THIS THREAD, you bring up the Democrats.  I had later on said that the GOP does it more, because I failed to call you on distracting from the subject of the thread.  You did this.  What the Democrats does is irrelevant to the topic at hand here.  it is about Paul Ryan and the GOP.  What I am guilty of is letting you get the topic derailed.

So, back to the point raised, and you can choose to not answer it, as I would predict: Is GOP budgetary policy reflective of the wishes of Jesus in any way or not?  Do you care to answer that?  I will tone the extremes and ask you that.  There are some who will say no:

* Jesus said to Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar (and to God that which is God).  Jesus supported paying taxes for what the government did.

Uh.  Richard, that comment was in regards to someone asking Jesus if it was "legal" for Jews to pay taxes to government in relation to their faith.

All he did was suggest that one could pay taxes to a secular force and still be loyal to god.

 



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Kasz216 on 30 April 2012
makingmusic476 said:
badgenome said:
makingmusic476 said:

Japan does have the highest debt-to-GDP ratio in the first world at 208%.  But guess what, it doesn't matter.  They're showing no signs of default, and they've been dealing with deflation more than inflation over the past several years.  Japan is the perfect example of why total public debt is a non-issue for a nation that prints its own currency.  The primary thing that matters is how much total currency (total spending power) effects inflation/deflation.

 

I feel like you probably haven't studied Japan's economic situation very well... as there are 2 points worth noting.

1) Japan's economy has been stagnant... well forever.  They aren't exactly a country to be pining over economically.

2) Japan's debt is like 95% owned by Japanese people... a large percentage of that being owed by thrifty "play it safe" private citizens and pension funds.

Japan isn't facing signs of default because it's borrowing interest rates are low.  It's rates are low because it's debt is still serviced by local citizens with extra cash buying bonds for a rainy day... and well pension funds. 

Japan actually really wants to get it's debt to GDP ratio down, because it fears the day it's invsetors have had their fill, because then Japan will have to go to internatioanl investors who will pretty much eat them alive interest rate wise... and then they'll be at the point of no return. (if they aren't already.)


Japan's had some signficant advantages that have allowed it to spend recklessly, though most people seem to think the gravy train is coming to an end with the passing of the current elderly generation as they begin to spend their savings.

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-12-27/markets/30560295_1_debt-crisis-yen-euro-zone

http://www.4-traders.com/news/Japan-Not-Immune-To-Debt-Crisis-BOJ-Kamezaki-Says--14048848/



richardhutnik on 30 April 2012
badgenome said:
richardhutnik said:

 Of course, it is also ok for you to admit you have no clue what Jesus would want, nor are interested in it, and we can move on from there.  If what Jesus has an interest in is of no interest to you, just come out and say it.

It's of rather limited interest to me, especially since I have no desire to live in a theocracy. But while I do feel a bit odd telling Christians what to believe about their own religion, I have probably spent more time reading the Bible than most people who profess to believe in it, and my own interpretation of Christ's overall message is that he was not of this world nor particularly concerned with it. If that's your actual interpretation of "render unto Caesar", then I have to say, it seems a pretty facile one. Christ made a point of emphasizing that Caesar's name and image were on the coin, and the implication is that it is a tainted thing. The more pertinent point for Christians is to render unto God that which is God's.

I will not get into analysis of what the Bible says then, if it is not of interest then.  Because it ends up going all over the place, with where people putting emphasis resulting in a different view, and the emphasis being based on personal biases.  This bit results in a mess of political views with Jesus ending up endorsing contradictory views of things.



richardhutnik on 30 April 2012
Kasz216 said:
richardhutnik said:
badgenome said:
richardhutnik said:

Those are your words.  To get discussion off the GOP and so on, the SUBJECT OF THIS THREAD, you bring up the Democrats.  I had later on said that the GOP does it more, because I failed to call you on distracting from the subject of the thread.  You did this.  What the Democrats does is irrelevant to the topic at hand here.  it is about Paul Ryan and the GOP.  What I am guilty of is letting you get the topic derailed.

So, back to the point raised, and you can choose to not answer it, as I would predict: Is GOP budgetary policy reflective of the wishes of Jesus in any way or not?  Do you care to answer that?  I will tone the extremes and ask you that.  There are some who will say no:

* Jesus said to Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar (and to God that which is God).  Jesus supported paying taxes for what the government did.

Uh.  Richard, that comment was in regards to someone asking Jesus if it was "legal" for Jews to pay taxes to government in relation to their faith.

All he did was suggest that one could pay taxes to a secular force and still be loyal to god.

 

And just going by one verse also, is why one gets an incomplete view.  The video I posted goes into greater detail regarding what governments can and cannot do, and then one can also ask if the Old Testament can inform, because one verse goes into God commanding the government to take care of those in need.

The entire text of render unto Caesar is here:

http://niv.scripturetext.com/mark/12.htm

If you were to bring in the entire Bible, or at least the rest of the New Testament, then one gets to Romans 13, that speaks of governments being ordained by God, and the submission of Christians to government:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+13&version=NIV

 And there is more here, on what Jesus would want to see also from a society, based upon his commands to people.  One can then question whether or not government is the best means, or if in a Democratic society (do not split hairs of "But we are a Republic" here, because it involves people electing democratically Representatives to carry out their will, not the electing of dictators who don't factor in the wishes of people) decides to do things that Jesus would approve of (like helping the poor), decides it wants its government do do welfare.

If anyone wants to get into a deep analysis of what the Bible says regarding the role of government and helping the poor, and it is in agreeable with Christian teaching, that would be fine, and I could.  I have a feeling that not too many people here are really qualified, and it iwll end up deviating from the message, and go all over.

So, those chiming in here, would you rather table discussions on this, or go into dueling scriptures and try to show that what Glenn Beck says about "social justice" is superior to what the Catholic Church says about the subject of "social justice"?

Here is the Catholic Church on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_justice#Catholicism

 



Harrybarry on 30 May 2012

I read *Ron Paul*.

"If somebody is going to try to paste a person’s view on epistemology to me, then give me Thomas Aquinas,’ who believed that man needs divine help in the pursuit of knowledge. ‘Don’t give me Ayn Rand,’ he says.”

What an idiot.