By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sony Discussion - One day PS3 will emulate the Wii

binary solo said:
V-r0cK said:
...then next it'll emulate 360 games lol. Afterall, it's suppose to do everything.

Now if Sony had really wanted to dominate consoles it would have kept Other OS for the slim and secretly gone to the hacker community and cunningly offered incentives to develop an emulator. The Linux communty already has a Windows emulator for PCs running Linux that may occasionally need to run proprietary Windows SW (like games for Windows). How much of a stretch would it have been to go from Window's emulator to 360 emulator? People keep saying it's really easy to port between PC and 360.

I'd buy Alan Wake and the 2 Mass Effects at least if there ever was a 360 emulator on PS3.

For me there'd be no point in trying to get a Wii emulator to include motion controls. The Wii games I'm interested in I'm pretty sure can all be played with classic controller.

It's a sweet idea but there aren't enough phats still running other OS to make it worth trying to do. Though if some creative hacker was really in to gaming they might try to do it just to see if it can be done. It would put the willies up the gaming industry if a current gen console was able to emulate other current gen consoles. It's one thing to emulate a competitor's console from 2 generations ago it's a whole other thing to do it within the same generation.

@ Mike_intellivision: Why would it get shut down by court order? What legal breach would occur? Is there some user agreement that says you'll only play Wii games on a Wii, or 360 games on a 360? An emulator isn't a breach of copyright over the original OS, it's an entirely different piece of software. What's the legal basis for sutting down a user created emulator?

the problem with that is the different CPU architecture, it is easy to virtualize a PC OS in another PC OS because the hardware is the same. WINE is not an emulator it is an abstraction layer it just emulates software not the hardware. The X360 uses a 3 core IBM RISC chip were as PC's use 86X based CISC CPUs the easy of porting from PC to x360 is more to do with the dev tools that microsoft provide as they are very much the same as PC tools (DirectX, debugers etc). The PS3 uses a Cell processor that has 1 RISC core of the same type as the 360 cores and 7 "synergistic processing elements" that are not full CPU cores they are closer to co-processors (or GPU stream processors) while the Cell does have a lot more compute power but that is more to do with parallelization than raw speed which is important in emulation. 

as a rule to emulate a CPU properly you need a CPU ~10x faster than the one you are emulating, it is different when emulating a modern GPU. that is why a Wii emulator wouldn't work as the Wii CPU is reportedly clocked at 729 Mhz while the Cell is clocked at reportedly clocked at 3.2Ghz only ~4x faster the Cells parallel power doesn't really help. the PS2 has a 299Mhz CPU but has 2 co-processors the Cell would be better suited to emulating.



@TheVoxelman on twitter

Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

Around the Network
zarx said:
binary solo said:
V-r0cK said:
...then next it'll emulate 360 games lol. Afterall, it's suppose to do everything.

Now if Sony had really wanted to dominate consoles it would have kept Other OS for the slim and secretly gone to the hacker community and cunningly offered incentives to develop an emulator. The Linux communty already has a Windows emulator for PCs running Linux that may occasionally need to run proprietary Windows SW (like games for Windows). How much of a stretch would it have been to go from Window's emulator to 360 emulator? People keep saying it's really easy to port between PC and 360.

I'd buy Alan Wake and the 2 Mass Effects at least if there ever was a 360 emulator on PS3.

For me there'd be no point in trying to get a Wii emulator to include motion controls. The Wii games I'm interested in I'm pretty sure can all be played with classic controller.

It's a sweet idea but there aren't enough phats still running other OS to make it worth trying to do. Though if some creative hacker was really in to gaming they might try to do it just to see if it can be done. It would put the willies up the gaming industry if a current gen console was able to emulate other current gen consoles. It's one thing to emulate a competitor's console from 2 generations ago it's a whole other thing to do it within the same generation.

@ Mike_intellivision: Why would it get shut down by court order? What legal breach would occur? Is there some user agreement that says you'll only play Wii games on a Wii, or 360 games on a 360? An emulator isn't a breach of copyright over the original OS, it's an entirely different piece of software. What's the legal basis for sutting down a user created emulator?

the problem with that is the different CPU architecture, it is easy to virtualize a PC OS in another PC OS because the hardware is the same. WINE is not an emulator it is an abstraction layer it just emulates software not the hardware. The X360 uses a 3 core IBM RISC chip were as PC's use 86X based CISC CPUs the easy of porting from PC to x360 is more to do with the dev tools that microsoft provide as they are very much the same as PC tools (DirectX, debugers etc). The PS3 uses a Cell processor that has 1 RISC core of the same type as the 360 cores and 7 "synergistic processing elements" that are not full CPU cores they are closer to co-processors (or GPU stream processors) while the Cell does have a lot more compute power but that is more to do with parallelization than raw speed which is important in emulation. 

as a rule to emulate a CPU properly you need a CPU ~10x faster than the one you are emulating, it is different when emulating a modern GPU. that is why a Wii emulator wouldn't work as the Wii CPU is reportedly clocked at 729 Mhz while the Cell is clocked at reportedly clocked at 3.2Ghz only ~4x faster the Cells parallel power doesn't really help. the PS2 has a 299Mhz CPU but has 2 co-processors the Cell would be better suited to emulating.

Sounds highly technical, therefore you must be right.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

binary solo said:
zarx said:
binary solo said:
V-r0cK said:
...then next it'll emulate 360 games lol. Afterall, it's suppose to do everything.

Now if Sony had really wanted to dominate consoles it would have kept Other OS for the slim and secretly gone to the hacker community and cunningly offered incentives to develop an emulator. The Linux communty already has a Windows emulator for PCs running Linux that may occasionally need to run proprietary Windows SW (like games for Windows). How much of a stretch would it have been to go from Window's emulator to 360 emulator? People keep saying it's really easy to port between PC and 360.

I'd buy Alan Wake and the 2 Mass Effects at least if there ever was a 360 emulator on PS3.

For me there'd be no point in trying to get a Wii emulator to include motion controls. The Wii games I'm interested in I'm pretty sure can all be played with classic controller.

It's a sweet idea but there aren't enough phats still running other OS to make it worth trying to do. Though if some creative hacker was really in to gaming they might try to do it just to see if it can be done. It would put the willies up the gaming industry if a current gen console was able to emulate other current gen consoles. It's one thing to emulate a competitor's console from 2 generations ago it's a whole other thing to do it within the same generation.

@ Mike_intellivision: Why would it get shut down by court order? What legal breach would occur? Is there some user agreement that says you'll only play Wii games on a Wii, or 360 games on a 360? An emulator isn't a breach of copyright over the original OS, it's an entirely different piece of software. What's the legal basis for sutting down a user created emulator?

the problem with that is the different CPU architecture, it is easy to virtualize a PC OS in another PC OS because the hardware is the same. WINE is not an emulator it is an abstraction layer it just emulates software not the hardware. The X360 uses a 3 core IBM RISC chip were as PC's use 86X based CISC CPUs the easy of porting from PC to x360 is more to do with the dev tools that microsoft provide as they are very much the same as PC tools (DirectX, debugers etc). The PS3 uses a Cell processor that has 1 RISC core of the same type as the 360 cores and 7 "synergistic processing elements" that are not full CPU cores they are closer to co-processors (or GPU stream processors) while the Cell does have a lot more compute power but that is more to do with parallelization than raw speed which is important in emulation. 

as a rule to emulate a CPU properly you need a CPU ~10x faster than the one you are emulating, it is different when emulating a modern GPU. that is why a Wii emulator wouldn't work as the Wii CPU is reportedly clocked at 729 Mhz while the Cell is clocked at reportedly clocked at 3.2Ghz only ~4x faster the Cells parallel power doesn't really help. the PS2 has a 299Mhz CPU but has 2 co-processors the Cell would be better suited to emulating.

Sounds highly technical, therefore you must be right.

damn strait



@TheVoxelman on twitter

Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

sony cant emulate PS2 yet and you think hacker will emulate the wii? lol



dd if = /dev/brain | tail -f | grep games | nc -lnvvp 80

Hey Listen!

https://archive.org/details/kohina_radio_music_collection

zarx said:
binary solo said:
zarx said:
binary solo said:
V-r0cK said:
...then next it'll emulate 360 games lol. Afterall, it's suppose to do everything.

Now if Sony had really wanted to dominate consoles it would have kept Other OS for the slim and secretly gone to the hacker community and cunningly offered incentives to develop an emulator. The Linux communty already has a Windows emulator for PCs running Linux that may occasionally need to run proprietary Windows SW (like games for Windows). How much of a stretch would it have been to go from Window's emulator to 360 emulator? People keep saying it's really easy to port between PC and 360.

I'd buy Alan Wake and the 2 Mass Effects at least if there ever was a 360 emulator on PS3.

For me there'd be no point in trying to get a Wii emulator to include motion controls. The Wii games I'm interested in I'm pretty sure can all be played with classic controller.

It's a sweet idea but there aren't enough phats still running other OS to make it worth trying to do. Though if some creative hacker was really in to gaming they might try to do it just to see if it can be done. It would put the willies up the gaming industry if a current gen console was able to emulate other current gen consoles. It's one thing to emulate a competitor's console from 2 generations ago it's a whole other thing to do it within the same generation.

@ Mike_intellivision: Why would it get shut down by court order? What legal breach would occur? Is there some user agreement that says you'll only play Wii games on a Wii, or 360 games on a 360? An emulator isn't a breach of copyright over the original OS, it's an entirely different piece of software. What's the legal basis for sutting down a user created emulator?

the problem with that is the different CPU architecture, it is easy to virtualize a PC OS in another PC OS because the hardware is the same. WINE is not an emulator it is an abstraction layer it just emulates software not the hardware. The X360 uses a 3 core IBM RISC chip were as PC's use 86X based CISC CPUs the easy of porting from PC to x360 is more to do with the dev tools that microsoft provide as they are very much the same as PC tools (DirectX, debugers etc). The PS3 uses a Cell processor that has 1 RISC core of the same type as the 360 cores and 7 "synergistic processing elements" that are not full CPU cores they are closer to co-processors (or GPU stream processors) while the Cell does have a lot more compute power but that is more to do with parallelization than raw speed which is important in emulation.

as a rule to emulate a CPU properly you need a CPU ~10x faster than the one you are emulating, it is different when emulating a modern GPU. that is why a Wii emulator wouldn't work as the Wii CPU is reportedly clocked at 729 Mhz while the Cell is clocked at reportedly clocked at 3.2Ghz only ~4x faster the Cells parallel power doesn't really help. the PS2 has a 299Mhz CPU but has 2 co-processors the Cell would be better suited to emulating.

Sounds highly technical, therefore you must be right.

damn strait

You sir, ruined my thread. There's no discussion point now. I projected 100 posts for this but now it looks like half of that.

You owe me 300 VGC$ for the loss ...



Around the Network
Bamboleo said:
zarx said:
binary solo said:
zarx said:
binary solo said:
V-r0cK said:
...then next it'll emulate 360 games lol. Afterall, it's suppose to do everything.

Now if Sony had really wanted to dominate consoles it would have kept Other OS for the slim and secretly gone to the hacker community and cunningly offered incentives to develop an emulator. The Linux communty already has a Windows emulator for PCs running Linux that may occasionally need to run proprietary Windows SW (like games for Windows). How much of a stretch would it have been to go from Window's emulator to 360 emulator? People keep saying it's really easy to port between PC and 360.

I'd buy Alan Wake and the 2 Mass Effects at least if there ever was a 360 emulator on PS3.

For me there'd be no point in trying to get a Wii emulator to include motion controls. The Wii games I'm interested in I'm pretty sure can all be played with classic controller.

It's a sweet idea but there aren't enough phats still running other OS to make it worth trying to do. Though if some creative hacker was really in to gaming they might try to do it just to see if it can be done. It would put the willies up the gaming industry if a current gen console was able to emulate other current gen consoles. It's one thing to emulate a competitor's console from 2 generations ago it's a whole other thing to do it within the same generation.

@ Mike_intellivision: Why would it get shut down by court order? What legal breach would occur? Is there some user agreement that says you'll only play Wii games on a Wii, or 360 games on a 360? An emulator isn't a breach of copyright over the original OS, it's an entirely different piece of software. What's the legal basis for sutting down a user created emulator?

the problem with that is the different CPU architecture, it is easy to virtualize a PC OS in another PC OS because the hardware is the same. WINE is not an emulator it is an abstraction layer it just emulates software not the hardware. The X360 uses a 3 core IBM RISC chip were as PC's use 86X based CISC CPUs the easy of porting from PC to x360 is more to do with the dev tools that microsoft provide as they are very much the same as PC tools (DirectX, debugers etc). The PS3 uses a Cell processor that has 1 RISC core of the same type as the 360 cores and 7 "synergistic processing elements" that are not full CPU cores they are closer to co-processors (or GPU stream processors) while the Cell does have a lot more compute power but that is more to do with parallelization than raw speed which is important in emulation.

as a rule to emulate a CPU properly you need a CPU ~10x faster than the one you are emulating, it is different when emulating a modern GPU. that is why a Wii emulator wouldn't work as the Wii CPU is reportedly clocked at 729 Mhz while the Cell is clocked at reportedly clocked at 3.2Ghz only ~4x faster the Cells parallel power doesn't really help. the PS2 has a 299Mhz CPU but has 2 co-processors the Cell would be better suited to emulating.

Sounds highly technical, therefore you must be right.

damn strait

You sir, ruined my thread. There's no discussion point now. I projected 100 posts for this but now it looks like half of that.

You owe me 300 VGC$ for the loss ...

aw sorry man, the 10x faster thing is just a rule of thumb it's not always true sometimes you can do it with less but you usually don't get 100% accurate emulation. Wait thats bad for the thread to ummm ok Teh Cell breaks all laws of computing and allows mad emulation skillz to be utilized to emulate the Wii. Wait that sounds insincere ok how about this, stranger things can happen...

 

no that doesn't sound like it will spur more discussion ether well then, lets try something else I will make statements that will draw people in to argue with me then.

the PS3 weaker than the X360.

God of war 3 looks ugly. 

the Wii has no hardcore games.

The Wii has more games games for real hardcore gamers than the suck box 360 and the play 'n' Suck 3

Wii sports is a better game than Uncharted 2 because I said so and people only buy good games and Wii sports sold more.

Motion controls are the future of gaming.

Natal is just an eyetoy.

Fable 3 is the best game ever because peter molyneux told me so.

All Wii gamers are graphics whores as seen by the fact that they are not playing on pong consoles.

Casual is the future of gaming.

 

there that should do it...



@TheVoxelman on twitter

Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

I suspect that the PS3 is probably not capable of emulating the Wii, but that is only because it probably does not have enough RAM to keep such a massive program in memory in addition to the overhead it needs to actually run the game. Still, the PS3's processor and graphics card would eat said program for lunch. And seriously, give me a break about the PS3's graphics card not being able to handle the Wii's graphics. The RSX sucks, but the Wii's GPU sucks more. Compare specs: PS3 RSX, Wii Hollywood.

I suspect that the PS3 is probably not capable of emulating the Wii, but that is only because I doubt it has enough RAM to keep such a massive program in memory. It's processor and graphics card, however, would eat said program for lunch. Do you people have any idea what you can do with what is essentially a 6-core 3.2 GHz main processor - with EACH CORE having a dedicated L1 cache? And seriously, give me a break about the PS3's graphics card not being able to handle the Wii's graphics. C
To all you "zOMG the PS3 can't emulate the PS2!!!one!" people, there is one reason, and one reason only, why the PS2 is so damn hard to emulate: It has a 3.2GB/s memory bus. Yes, that is 3.2 gigaBYTES per second, not gigabits. That is why PS3s with full backwards-compatibility had to have the guts of the PS2 under the hood.
Eat your hearts out GC fans. The GameCube had a faster processor, and probably a better graphics card, but no console in the history of gaming has ever been harder to perform software emulation on than the PS2.

 

Oh, to all you "zOMG the PS3 can't emulate the PS2, so it must be weaker than the Wii" people, there is one reason, and one reason only, why the PS2 is so damn hard to emulate purely with software: Its graphics card uses EDRAM, and its graphics card's memory bus has a bandwith of 48GB/s. Yes, that is 48 gigaBYTES per second. 48 GB/s = 384 Gbit/s. (I definitely wouldn't complain at all if I could get that speed out of my internet connection...) And that was a decade ago. Even today, ten years later, that is still significantly faster than any CPU memory bus except triple-channel connections (which have an extremely high theoretical speed compared to most real-life performance). This is why PS3s with full backwards-compatibility had to have at least some of the guts of the PS2 under the hood.  Nothing else in the world can even come close to the kind of performance that EDRAM can deliver (without trying extremely questionable jury-rigs). Interestingly enough, the Xbox 360, which has a 256GB/s GPU memory bus (again delivered with EDRAM), is one of the few widespread devices that could undoubtedly emulate the PS2. 



<insert awesome signature here>

Pyro as Bill said:
If graphics cards 3-4 gens ahead of the PS3 struggle to run NSMB Wii on the Dolphin emulator then I doubt teh cell will handle it. Might be best to attempt a PS2 emulator first.

We'll see a PS3 emulator on the PC before we see a Wii emulator on the PS3.

PS3 can emulate PS2,Sony just wasn't releasing the emulator on PS3 firmware update cause it would bring down PS2 sales which were helping make up for the PS3 loses.

 

Now that PS3 is making profit and Sony registering a Patent of Software PS2 emulator for the PS3 a few months back,we will most likely see it at this E3.



Bamboleo said:

Geohot started with the PS3 hacking and I think he's not stopping at all, thus driving hackers around the world to the point were they have total control over the PS3 operating system.

Once they do that, a Wii emulator is a given, there's enough power on the PS3 to emulate a Wii. Games for classic controller could be played with dualshock, the others I have no idea.

This will be the first gen were a console can emulate other console from the same gen. (No portables)

I'm aiming at late 2012 for this.

ROFL someone forgot to tell him about move, is geohotz being serious lol??? If PS3 ever emulates the wii then I will sell my wii, hahaha

Next thing he wil do after emulation is pirating mark my words lol



zarx said:

aw sorry man, the 10x faster thing is just a rule of thumb it's not always true sometimes you can do it with less but you usually don't get 100% accurate emulation. Wait thats bad for the thread to ummm ok Teh Cell breaks all laws of computing and allows mad emulation skillz to be utilized to emulate the Wii. Wait that sounds insincere ok how about this, stranger things can happen...

 

no that doesn't sound like it will spur more discussion ether well then, lets try something else I will make statements that will draw people in to argue with me then.

the PS3 weaker than the X360.

God of war 3 looks ugly. 

the Wii has no hardcore games.

The Wii has more games games for real hardcore gamers than the suck box 360 and the play 'n' Suck 3

Wii sports is a better game than Uncharted 2 because I said so and people only buy good games and Wii sports sold more.

Motion controls are the future of gaming.

Natal is just an eyetoy.

Fable 3 is the best game ever because peter molyneux told me so.

All Wii gamers are graphics whores as seen by the fact that they are not playing on pong consoles.

Casual is the future of gaming.

 

there that should do it...

I agree with all those points!



There is no Knowledge that is not Power