Hiku said:
Well I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I don't find the 'spinoff' term offensive in this case, but rather a mischaracterization of (at least some) these non-numbered games. Just as you described, people hear 'spinoff' and they then assume things about those games that may very well not be true. Leading some to skip out on playing them. That's why I wanted to hear from you, in your own words, why you think Birth By Sleep should be referred to as a spinoff, by whatever definition you use, rather than just hearing what that definition is. How it differs from KH2 and 3 to the point where it's more proper to call it a spinoff. When it comes to a series with a continuous expansive main story, I don't think I can consider it a spinoff unless other aspects of it that are at least equally important, are vastly different. |
Just an aside, I mentioned Mario because it was a glaring example of something that is a spinoff, but is well regarded. Spinoffs can become well regarded series in their own rights, but don't have to.
The Wikipedia page is actually right. There are 4 games between Kingdom Hearts 2 and Kingdom Hearts 3. There's a 5th one, Chain of Memories, between KH1 and KH2. The article merely says "notably" between 2 and 3, presumably because the one game in between KH1 and KH2 is not as glaring an example of spinoffs as the 4 handhelds and 1 smartphone game between KH2 and KH3. But that's being nitpicky. The point is I agree with it's definition. A piece of media, including video games (which KH is), derived from an already existing work (which the handhelds are of the numbered games), that focus on more details and different aspects from the original work (which each handheld title does). And the article author does establish why they're spinoffs. He says they "expanded on the original thread of the story". The original story of the numbered games focuses on Sora and friends and their battle against the main antagonist of the series. The handheld games tell about events outside of that or focus on different characters, while the numbered games continue that main story thread. Yes, the main story thread references details from those other threads, but they are still other threads, not the main story thread. In other words, In between each numbered game, there have been many games, and I like them, but I was always looking forward to the continuation of the main story thread.
And that's why this discussion about what term to refer to them by misses my main, original point. Are they spinoffs? Maybe, maybe not, I really don't care at this point. That is the word I choose to call them by, and no one will change my mind on that, but if you'd rather not call them that because you have a different understanding of what a spinoff is, that's your call. My point has nothing to do with them being spinoffs. My original statement was:
"It did take them 13 years to make the next mainline game. Spinoffs don't count. I love Kingdom Hearts, but SE really dragged this whole saga out way too long, and I'm still mad at them for it. And I don't hate the spinoffs either. 358/2 Days holds a special place for me. But damn, KH2->KH3 13 years? Come on SE. Not cool."
People were very upset that I called the non-numbered games spinoffs. But that's not the point. The sentence after that is the point: "SE really dragged this whole saga out way too long, and I'm still mad at them for it." If you don't want to call them spinoffs, that's fine, but even though they contain important elements for understanding the story of 3, they still aren't 3, they're something else, and they're not what I was waiting for in between 2 and 3. I knew 3 would be a continuation of Sora's main quest, and that's what I wanted to see. BBS isn't a continuation of Sora's main quest, it's a further complication of the plot, on a system I don't own and don't have money to buy. That was my perspective when it came out. I just saw BBS as an annoyance because I wanted to see Sora's story continue, and I didn't want to have to buy 5 games and 4 handheld systems to understand it. That frustrates me. I'm frustrated with how they choose to present the story. I'd rather they just made 1, 2, and 3, and presented them in such a way so they could be understood by playing them in that order. KH2 could start by explaining briefly what happened in between 1 and 2, and maybe sometime later they could make a game that expanded on those details, but I'd rather it not be required to play to understand Sora's main struggle against the main villain. Prequel games can be interesting, but I'd rather they add further context to a plot I already understand, not interrupt a story I want to finish and force me to play that first so that I can understand a sequel. Can you not imagine how that might be frustrating to someone? So call them spinoffs or not, but the focus of those games is on things that are interesting, but not the same focus as the numbered series, and the focus of the numbered series is the plot thread I wanted to finish, and that I waited 13 years for.
TL;DR the point isn't what you call the non-numbered games or whether their stories are skippable, it's that the focus of the numbered games was on a particular plot thread and I wish that Square Enix had finished that plot thread quickly in a way that could be understood sequentially without needing to play prequels or midquels or games that expand the plot into other winding threads that add important details but don't really move the original plot forward. Instead they paused the plot thread I cared about for 13 years to make games that just complicated the plot. Now again, some of those games were good, but they still sidetracked from the original plot thread I wanted to see the finish of.
