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NightlyPoe said:
AbbathTheGrim said:

Dany has not done anything that Jon hasn't done in order to maintain respect. This "crazy" and "full of rage" Dany is a last minute insertion that could have worked out if it had been fleshed out as I said.

How good and kind and such a good ruler, as Dany was portrayed in the previous seasons, was the whole point why Tyrion and Varys came to her side. She was portrayed as the best option to rule Westeros and now in this last season they are shoving her away so that they can give it to Jon.

There should have been another season to flesh out Dany's madness, give some proper hints, make people talk, if they wanted it to go that way. This whole Dany is cray-cray stuff is rushed and another demonstration of bad writing.

I have defended this series up until the previous season in spite of the issues in previous seasons everyone admits, but in this season they dropped the ball.

Some people will defend anything.

Did I miss where Daenerys did anything crazy or full of rage this season?  Last season's burning of the Tarly's sure, but this season?  Nothing really.  She didn't rage at Jon, she watched her "child" murdered and then turned away from the hopeless battle to helplessly watch her ships destroyed, King's Landing is still standing next episode when Jon arrives, so she obviously didn't fly into a rage and order the city sacked at once.

Most of the evidence of Daenerys being out of control comes from Varys's musings.

We're still in assumed heel turn territory.  I kinda think the internet may be running in the wrong direction (shocking, I know!).  This might be Varys's downfall.  We're used to thinking of Varys as the one altruistic character on the show, but his actions here betray something else.  We got a callback this episode to episode 7x2 where Varys said he swore to look Daenerys in the eyes if he ever disagreed with her.  Well, that's only half the story.  The full oath she extracted from Varys was this:

"If you ever think I'm failing the people, you won't conspire behind my back.  You'll look me in the eye as you have done today, and you'll tell me how I'm failing them."

The reason that Daenerys demanded that oath is simple.  Varys has a habit of conspiring against kings because he thinks he knows what's best.  He'd backed and then undercut her father and Robert.  He'd tried to put Viserys on the throne despite knowing how poor a king he'd be.  Not to mention the Aegon shenanigans in the books.

In order for Daenerys to take him into her confidence, she needed him to understand that this would be it.  He was now an adviser, not the secret master pulling the strings.  He needed to trust her.

Well, Varys has definitively broken that oath and his life is now forfeit.  By all rights, he should soon be burned alive as Daenerys promised.

But let's take one more look at one of the reasons that people think Daenerys is out of control: Her conversation with Jon.  In it, she practically begs him not to tell anyone.  We're meant to think that perhaps she's being paranoid, but she's not.  She was completely correct.  As soon as Varys learned of Jon's heritage, he began conspiring against her.  Jon's actions have sown intrigue within Daenerys's highest circles, a headache she doesn't need right now.  At best, it's going to cost her a valuable ally and make her look like a mad woman for executing her advisers.

It's part of why Jon simply would make a bad king.  He's got too much Ned in him to play the game properly and he doesn't want it anyway.  He trusts Sansa's honor, who is now more Littlefinger than Ned, and is pretty much immediately betrayed.  He would be led around by his advisers.  Obviously, Varys would like that, but it wouldn't be necessarily good for the kingdom to have a puppet on the throne.

Daenerys is still shown as something of a mix.  She did go up to the north to defend the realm.  She did follow Tyrion's disastrous plans last season to take King's Landing with minimal bloodshed.  She bloody tried to get along with Sansa.  But she also demands that throne.

Anyway, that's my take on things for the moment.  I basically think the internet is getting out over its skis.  Though I could be wrong.

I mean you literally have Varys, Tyrion, and Sansa, the three clear-cut smartest people on the show all agreeing Dany has lost her marbles, and a whole 80 minute episode clearly seeing her act like a psycho, and you still think otherwise? The only reason they began conspiring against her is because they've all seen how unstable she is. She was begging Jon to keep his silence because she saw how everyone naturally gravitates towards him, and she felt threatened about losing what she believes is hers, even though she can tell by now he's clearly a better leader, as well as the true heir.

And your spiel about Jon 'can't play the game' makes no sense. When has he been lead around by Sansa or anyone else? Sansa has made a point of expressing her frustration that he never listens to her and just does what he wants. If he did always do as she said, he wouldn't have gone to Dragonstone last season and they'd all be dead. But he also acknowledges her opinions on several matters, is always open to her, and trusts her with the safekeeping of the North.
The reason Jon is being so obedient to Dany is because of love, but mostly because he's honour-bound to her after bending the knee. And he only did that after Dany risked her life for him last season while losing a dragon, which she only did because she loves him.