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yvanjean said: Well all of your apparent counter arguments seem more to me like you are stating your personal views as facts. Remember that this entire thread is conjecture and speculation, we are missing the most important piece of information release date for PS5. |
That would describe your responses a lot more accurately than mine. I didn't state my personal views as facts. I made my counterarguments as potential reasons why the PS5 may do as well as the PS4 or better. You have not adequately refuted those points and yet again, you are making the same old recycled talking points ad nauseaum. Just because you can say the same things over and over again, doesn't make it true. Just because this thread is about speculation, it doesn't excuse your pitiful logic (e.g. your propensity to use red herrings and strawman fallacies).
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yvanjean said: PS5 launch seem more like the PS3 launch (where Sony fan were still content with their PS2) there won't be the same level of excitement to make the jump (Ps3 to Ps4) and Sony fan will be hesitant to leave their platform of choice the massively popular PS4. |
And what evidence do you have to suggest this? For someone who likes to accuse me for stating my personal views as facts, you sure love to do it yourself. In fact, I asked you to provide data such as a survey, but you didn't.
I already told you multiple times that late adopters are price conscious. They will only buy consoles if they're cheap. Those people who buy a PS4 late in this cycle will not get a PS5 until it becomes cheaper, too. Those aren't the same people who will buy the next gen console Day 1.
I can also make alternative counterarguments against your repetitive assertions. For instance, the PS3 was a pain in the ass to develop games. On the other hand, the PS5 will continue to use x86 like the PS4 which will make the learning curve significantly less steep. PS2 -> PS3 development is way harder than the PS4 -> PS5 transition. The PS4 -> PS5 transition will also be easier than the PS3 -> PS4 transition since this will be the very first time (or as you love to say, "something we never seen before") Sony will not be changing architectures. This will allow greater initial software output for the PS5. In addition, going into this generation, analysts predicted that this generation of consoles wouldn't do well which made a lot of developers/publishers hesitant at the start. That won't be the case this time.
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yvanjean said: On top of that you had in mid-gen refresh that Sony did to the PS4, return of Nintendo has a power house( WiiU being a complete failure), popularity of mobile market and there simply no way Microsoft can have a worst launch than they did with Xb1. Also, Sony manage amazing result when their competition were struggling. That won't be the same for PS5. |
Ad nauseaum fallacy. I already made a counterargument to this assertion in which you have not properly addressed. Nintendo is now a powerhouse and yet, the PS4 is still doing well. Why would I expect Nintendo to a hypothetical reason for the PS5's struggles? I already touched on the popularity of the mobile market in my previous comment and pointed at how your chart is only a snapshot of what developers were interested in making games for at a particular point in time.
Even if Microsoft launches the XB2 more strongly, that doesn't mean the PS5 can not achieve good results. Your insinuation that Sony manages amazing results when their competition were struggling is an ad hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. You even said, yourself, that software is what drives consoles and Sony (and 3rd party developers) has been delivering compelling software throughout this generation. What if Sony provides the PS5 a substantially better launch lineup than the PS4?
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yvanjean said: If power, graphics and resolutions mattered so much the Nintendo Switch would not be a success right now. |
And yet, you kept asserting that the PS5 would not be significantly more powerful than the XB1X as if that was a significant issue. This sentence is incongruent with what you were saying prior. It is also incongruent with your claim that the PS4 Pro to PS5 jump won't be a major improvement in the exact same comment. If power, graphics, and resolutions did not matter so much, then why are you trying so hard to make a false claim that there won't be a significant jump from the PS4 Pro to PS5? Actually, I will touch on that later.
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yvanjean said: There not much of Xb1-only gamers out there for Sony to steal from even I own a PS4. You know what's going to be much cheaper than a PS5 when it launch that potential Sony customer would want a PS4 Pro. Ps5 will lose some sales to their cheaper last gen consoles. Ps3 to PS4 was the longest between a refresh and everyone was ready for the next gen. That not the case for PS5. |
Another ad nauseaum fallacy. Repeating the same talking points isn't going to help you. To repeat myself again, the PS4 Pro appeals to the core audience who is more knowledgeable about the rumblings of the video game market. In addition, the PS4 Pro was designed for Playstation fans who cared about power. If they care about power, then they would pick the PS5 over the PS4 Pro since the former will be substantially more powerful. It is very unlikely that the PS5 will lose sales to the PS4 Pro. The PS5 may "lose sales" to the cheaper standard PS4, but this is nothing new. The PS3 was cheaper than the PS4 when the latter launched, too. That didn't stop the PS4 from being very successful.
If you want to stick to your assertion, then you have to apply the same logic to the XB1X and XB2. As a matter of fact, wouldn't the difference in power between the XB1X and XB2 be smaller than the difference between the PS4 Pro and PS5? So theoretically, if we are to follow your logic, the amount of sales the XB2 will lose to the XB1X will be greater than the amount of sales the PS5 will lose to the PS4 Pro.
And here's another alternative counterargument that I have come up with. What it Sony reduces PS4 Pro production in favor of PS5 production? Sony can control how many PS4 Pro's can be manufactured and shipped. If Sony wants to push the PS5, then Sony can ramp up production and shipments of PS5's while doing the opposite to the PS4 Pro.
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yvanjean said: You also made the argument "You'll likely see higher resolution textures, higher native resolution, and higher & more stable framerate." but Sony as advertised PS4 Pro has 4k ready machine. The actual jump in resolution is 4k to 4k. PS4 Pro did not sell gang buster because there were no major improvement over the PS4. It's going to be the same thing with PS4 Pro to PS5. |
And here we go with another retread though in this case, you are now blatantly ignoring critical parts of my refutation. "Yeah, let's just talk about the resolution and ignore the parts where he talked about better textures and framerates. I'm sure he won't notice..." Also, no the actual jump in resolution is sometimes 1440p/sometimes 1800p or 1800c/sometimes 2160c to mostly 2160c/2160p. And this is only resolution we're talking about here. How about the texture resolution, shadow resolution, framerate, lighting, AI, and physics while we're at it? Oh, right, that would contradict your claim that there will be no major improvement from the PS4 Pro to PS5.
Oh, and you also ignored in my previous comments about (1) developers using the PS4 and XB1 as the base platforms, not the PS4 Pro and XB1X and (2) the PS5's potential usages of Zen 2 (CPU), Navi (GPU), and GDDR6 (RAM).
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yvanjean said: Except when it mattered the first year of this gen, Xb1 used to be more expensive until they drop the Kinect and gain $50 advantage. I wasn't too happy with the price of the Xb1X, would of been much better if was Cheaper and came bundle with one year of Gamepass. |
That still does not change the fact that consumers valued the PS4 more than the XB1 even though the former was $50 more expensive for much of 2015, 2016, and 2017. This year, we sometimes see the XB1 being sold for around $229, which is a $70 advantage over the cheapest PS4 SKU.
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yvanjean said: Rumors are that Microsoft software solution apparently was to focus on their studios on top of acquiring PlayGround Games and grow these studios so that they can have multiple project. Playground Games is currently working on Forza Horizon and Fable 4. Increase the staff at Coalition and 343 so that both studios have more then one project other then Halo 6 and Gears 5. Time will tell but Microsoft need to do much more...https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-06/microsoft-boosts-video-game-investment-as-focus-shifts-to-software. Microsoft need to do much better they are far behind when compared to Sony and Nintendo. They are fully aware of this fact. Technology we'll eventually surpass the need for a consoles, Switch and Smartphones/Tablets is an early example of change in trends. Eventually Smart TV will all have powerful micro PC and you will only need controller to play games. In the past people talk about unrealistic growth of cloud gaming but just look how much they've closed the gap between mobile and consoles to see where tech is going. |
And how long will those games take? Has Fable 4 gone past the pre-planning stage? Will The Coalition and 343 try to churn out one more game this gen and if so, how long will it take after their next game to release their games for the XB2?
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yvanjean said: Technology we'll eventually surpass the need for a consoles, Switch and Smartphones/Tablets is an early example of change in trends. Eventually Smart TV will all have powerful micro PC and you will only need controller to play games. In the past people talk about unrealistic growth of cloud gaming but just look how much they've closed the gap between mobile and consoles to see where tech is going. |
"Change in trends" is mere buzzword talk unless you actually show me empirical evidence that the mobile market is actually eating revenue away from the console market. In contrast, whenever I peruse the NPD threads on ResetERA, I often see Mat Piscatella citing growth in the video game market, particularly when it comes to software. But let me guess, you're just going to repeat the above paragraph with the words changed around?
