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Kyros said:
The key difference that people ignore is the installed userbase


Nobody here is taking userbase into account when talking about flops. Its always absolute sales numbers (million seller). The userbase only comes into account when people explain why a system flops.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here. A game flopping or not is always relative to what it can be reasonably expected to sell. For example Super Mario Galaxy or Grand Theft Auto 4 selling 5 million during their lifetime would be something of a flop, but obscure niche games reaching even a few hundred thousand isn't half bad at all.

It's pretty damn impossible to say wether a game like Zack&Wiki or No More Heroes is a flop. I mean what do you expect a game by Suda51, or a point&click adventure on a console to sell? I was hoping something like 500k for both, but to flop they'd have to do truly miniscule numbers.