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HappySqurriel said:
bluesinG said:
HappySqurriel said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
NolSinkler said:
Romney, because at least he isn't for same-sex 'marriage'.


Feel free to check out my signature whenever you've got some time to spare.


Not that I care much anymore (gay marriage has been legal in Canada for several years now) but your signature, and most pro-gay marriage stances, fails to address the underlying question of "What is marriage?"

We live in a society where the institution of marriage has been under assault for over 60 years, and today it has been so watered down that the average person's definition would be something along the lines of "What happens after a wedding". There is far more to it than that, and one of the reasons the divorce rate is already so high is most people have forgotten what a marriage is supposed to be; and simply want a wedding with their partner because they lust for them. I don't fear a "slippery slope" argument with gay marriage, but I have never seen anyone explain how two people of the same sex can be married ... Being in love is not enough, having a ceremony is not enough, having a stable monogamous partnership which lasts a lifetime for the purpose of raising children is required.

This isn't about "good vs. evil" or about "tolerance" this is purely about definitions ... Just because you want to call your cat a dog doesn't make it a dog

Well, I guess we disagree about the definition of marriage. Or at least part of it. Committing to a stable, monogomous partnership is enough for me. Children are certainly not required (and I say that as the happily married father of one child, and hopefully more in the future).

Also, two follow-up questions: First, should opposite-sex couples be allowed to marry if they do not intend to have children? Second, internationally, there are far more children in need of adoptive parents than there are opposite-sex couples looking to adopt; do you think that these "extra" children would be better off raised by married same-sex couples or in group homes?


Marriage is an institution that is designed to create the ideal environment for raising children, you do not require children to be married.

Personally, I'm against international adoption (in general) at the moment because it is not particularly ethical; essentially, a large portion of children that are available for international adoption are being sold to wealthy westerners, and I have heard it suggested that this is against their parents will. I believe the correct approach to deal with "unwanted" children in developing nations is to increase the standard of living, and to encourage the use of birth control; whether it is artificial birth control (the pill/condoms) or more natural methods (the rhythm method). I don't necessarily have a problem with homosexual adoption, but with there being a massive shortage of children available for adoption I think we should be able to place them in the "best" environment possible; which could potentially discriminate against people for countless reasons. As an example, you might want to place a baby with a family that most closely matches their ethnic background and, since there are far more black babies than white babies available for adoption, the waiting list for black adoptive parents might be shorter than white parents. Of course, this would not preclude white parents from being given a black baby; after all, any loving parents (including parents of different ethnic backgrounds, or homosexual parents) are better than being a ward of the state.

Marriage is simply "the state of being united in a consensual or contractual relationship recognized by law." For many people, it is a precursor to having and raising children, but for many others it is not. I do not believe that capacity or intent to procreate should influence whether or not a couple is allowed to marry. People who do not want to have children should be allowed to marry, and people who cannot have biological children together should be allowed to marry (including cases of infertility, as well as same-sex couples).

Do you agree that people who don't want to have children should be allowed to marry, and that infertile couples should be allowed to marry? If so, then from a procreative standpoint, what's the difference between an infertile couple and a same-sex couple?