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Forums - Gaming Discussion - How far away are we from seeing games like Horizon: Zero Dawn and Spiderman 2018 on Switch/Switch 2?

Soundwave said:
TheLegendaryBigBoss said:

California being an expensive place, higher salaries being paid, mo cap and actor salaries, Disney payment for the IP. Although 300mil still seems very excessive

The 128 million and 300 million are outside of the Disney payment for the IP for Spidey 1 + 2. Those numbers are just the game budget alone. 

Spider-Man 3 will probably cost $400+ million, then probably another $50-75 mill on marketing on top of that, *then* Disney also gets their cut on top of that, though that isn't dissimilar to what 3rd parties face because they have to also pay a 30% licensing fee in most cases on various platforms. 

According to the sony own leaked numbers development  cost was 90 million. 



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zeldaring said:
Soundwave said:

The 128 million and 300 million are outside of the Disney payment for the IP for Spidey 1 + 2. Those numbers are just the game budget alone. 

Spider-Man 3 will probably cost $400+ million, then probably another $50-75 mill on marketing on top of that, *then* Disney also gets their cut on top of that, though that isn't dissimilar to what 3rd parties face because they have to also pay a 30% licensing fee in most cases on various platforms. 

According to the sony own leaked numbers development  cost was 90 million. 

I believe the budget was initially supposed to be 90 million but ended up at 128 million. Spider-Man 2 was also supposed to cost less initially, it ended up at 300 million. 

This happens with movies all the time too and will be common in game development. 



Soundwave said:

AI translation screws up even doing basic translations let alone nuanced conversations. 

I use a free translator and I understand absolutely everything. Both on this site and on Polish, Russian, etc. sites. When I want to learn about the war in Ukraine, the best sites are in Eastern Europe.

I'm surprised you say they don't work. The only explanation I can think of is that the AI ​​doesn't translate well into English. Because he does it perfectly in Spanish.

In fact, I write my message in Spanish and do the translation into English with a free program. Don't you understand what I'm saying?



Tico said:
Soundwave said:

AI translation screws up even doing basic translations let alone nuanced conversations. 

I use a free translator and I understand absolutely everything. Both on this site and on Polish, Russian, etc. sites. When I want to learn about the war in Ukraine, the best sites are in Eastern Europe.

I'm surprised you say they don't work. The only explanation I can think of is that the AI ​​doesn't translate well into English. Because he does it perfectly in Spanish.

In fact, I write my message in Spanish and do the translation into English with a free program. Don't you understand what I'm saying?

It works like shit in an actual conversation. If you want to get a rough idea of what someone is saying, sure but even then these programs still struggle to translate even a paragraph of text properly without errors, let alone being able to fluently translate an actual conversation between two people. 

In your message right there, there's several errors. 

I was using Google translate with an elderly neighbor and it was a complete pain in the ass and unnatural with the two of us having to phrase things differently like several times in just a short conversation, his 7 year old grandson was able to translate what we were saying back and forth like 10x better and faster. 

The technology can't even "think" at the level of a 6-7 year old child, which isn't terribly shocking because human beings don't even fully understand how the human brain works. 



Soundwave said:
zeldaring said:

According to the sony own leaked numbers development  cost was 90 million. 

I believe the budget was initially supposed to be 90 million but ended up at 128 million. Spider-Man 2 was also supposed to cost less initially, it ended up at 300 million. 

This happens with movies all the time too and will be common in game development. 

We have leaked data from Sony clearly showing what the  development cost and it was  89 million. 

 



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Soundwave said:

Think you're confusing one thing ... in game development, your top artists/programmers/etc. are the PLAYERS. The staff are the ones that magic the games worth a damn, no one wants to play a Zelda game made by the Philips cd-i team, it's only because it's the EPD Zelda team that those games have any worth to begin with. 

So if you win a championship or they have high stats, in sports generally you have to pay your players more when their contract is up. 

In game development, most staff don't have contracts that last past a single game's development. So if the game is a hit, you're going to be paying more to keep those people. 

Or like in pro sports, when those athletes are free agents, lots of teams want them and are willing to pay them to come play for them instead. It's the same in the game business. 

There's a whole bunch of other practical issues too, like say you say "well just pay the head producer of the team and pay everyone else peanuts" ... well the head producer then goes "well I don't want to work here anymore, I like working with the staff I had, I'm going elsewhere". If I'm a top end producer/game designer, I don't want to work with a bunch of untalented people, I want talented staff around me, the same way a superstar player will want other talented players to play with in basically any team sport. 

I have given you a concrete example of an extremely successful organization that does not do what you say they do.

And now I'll give you another example, this time a personal anecdote. There are several doctors in my family. When the war in Ukraine started they went there to help the refugees. And they didn't do it for money.



Tico said:
Soundwave said:

AI translation screws up even doing basic translations let alone nuanced conversations. 

I use a free translator and I understand absolutely everything. Both on this site and on Polish, Russian, etc. sites. When I want to learn about the war in Ukraine, the best sites are in Eastern Europe.

I'm surprised you say they don't work. The only explanation I can think of is that the AI ​​doesn't translate well into English. Because he does it perfectly in Spanish.

In fact, I write my message in Spanish and do the translation into English with a free program. Don't you understand what I'm saying?

Programs work fine, even for English.  I use translators all time for global business.  



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Tico said:
Soundwave said:

Think you're confusing one thing ... in game development, your top artists/programmers/etc. are the PLAYERS. The staff are the ones that magic the games worth a damn, no one wants to play a Zelda game made by the Philips cd-i team, it's only because it's the EPD Zelda team that those games have any worth to begin with. 

So if you win a championship or they have high stats, in sports generally you have to pay your players more when their contract is up. 

In game development, most staff don't have contracts that last past a single game's development. So if the game is a hit, you're going to be paying more to keep those people. 

Or like in pro sports, when those athletes are free agents, lots of teams want them and are willing to pay them to come play for them instead. It's the same in the game business. 

There's a whole bunch of other practical issues too, like say you say "well just pay the head producer of the team and pay everyone else peanuts" ... well the head producer then goes "well I don't want to work here anymore, I like working with the staff I had, I'm going elsewhere". If I'm a top end producer/game designer, I don't want to work with a bunch of untalented people, I want talented staff around me, the same way a superstar player will want other talented players to play with in basically any team sport. 

I have given you a concrete example of an extremely successful organization that does not do what you say they do.

And now I'll give you another example, this time a personal anecdote. There are several doctors in my family. When the war in Ukraine started they went there to help the refugees. And they didn't do it for money.

Except ... they do? Real Madrid pays outrageous salaries to their players. Equating the "staff" like trainers at Real Madrid is like talking about the janitor or window cleaners that works at Insomnaic ... they don't develop the games. The "staff" at game studios like designers/producers/programmers/artists are more like *players*. 



zeldaring said:

Soundwave said:

I believe the budget was initially supposed to be 90 million but ended up at 128 million. Spider-Man 2 was also supposed to cost less initially, it ended up at 300 million. 

This happens with movies all the time too and will be common in game development. 

We have leaked data from Sony clearly showing what the  development cost and it was  89 million. 

 

I've seen more detailed breakdowns

This includes costs of things like post game patches too, you can see there an almost $500k charge for what is presumably a patch on Sept. 1st 2021 period. This is a much more detailed breakdown of the costs, as I've said you can see why Sony is scared of $300-$400 million dollar budgets in their internal memos. 



Soundwave said:

It works like shit in an actual conversation. If you want to get a rough idea of what someone is saying, sure but even then these programs still struggle to translate even a paragraph of text properly without errors, let alone being able to fluently translate an actual conversation between two people. 

In your message right there, there's several errors. 

I was using Google translate with an elderly neighbor and it was a complete pain in the ass and unnatural with the two of us having to phrase things differently like several times in just a short conversation, his 7 year old grandson was able to translate what we were saying back and forth like 10x better and faster. 

The technology can't even "think" at the level of a 6-7 year old child, which isn't terribly shocking because human beings don't even fully understand how the human brain works. 

When the AI ​​translates into spanish the errors are minimal. I understand everything.

And you say that doesn't happen in english? I didn't know that.

In my country, in language classes, the first thing they teach us is this:

“When you read a foreign language you don't need to know all the words or understand everything. Having a general idea of ​​what the text says is usually more than enough”