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Forums - Sales Discussion - Famitsu Sales: Week 22, 2024 (May 27 - Jun 02)

zeldaring said:
curl-6 said:

Yeah I feel like if the word of mouth for Wonder was bad, it wouldn't still be in the top ten charts 7 months after its release.

It should also be noted that no 2D Mario has ever faced the level of competition among its peers that Wonder is up against; the combined weight of the likes of Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Animal Crossing New Horizons, Smash Bros Ultimate, etc dwarfs what the prior games had to deal with.

It should also be noted that no 2d mario has had a user base near 135 million at release. 

Look the game is cute and fun but it's really not pushing the genre to new heights by any boundaries. 

Software sales do not scale linearly with install base.

I would disagree that Wonder doesn't push boundaries; nearly every single level has a new mechanic good enough to design an entire lesser game around, and there are dozens of levels. Very few games have as much creativity and diversity as Wonder.



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curl-6 said:
zeldaring said:

It should also be noted that no 2d mario has had a user base near 135 million at release. 

Look the game is cute and fun but it's really not pushing the genre to new heights by any boundaries. 

Software sales do not scale linearly with install base.

I would disagree that Wonder doesn't push boundaries; nearly every single level has a new mechanic good enough to design an entire lesser game around, and there are dozens of levels. Very few games have as much creativity and diversity as Wonder.

If a developer designed a whole game around one of these. mechanics it would be a a very mediocre game.  The whole game is built on being diverse  but that's what makes it a very good game other then that the game is extremely simple from what I played so far. Only one seed took me my 5 minutes to find and I really liked that I had to look for it. Where the flower gives a hint about this can't  support the both of us. The seed thing is way over done, get a seed and 25 seconds later, your done with level with very little skill required for 90% of levels, they could have just made it part lf the level, and really just basic level design.



zeldaring said:
curl-6 said:

Software sales do not scale linearly with install base.

I would disagree that Wonder doesn't push boundaries; nearly every single level has a new mechanic good enough to design an entire lesser game around, and there are dozens of levels. Very few games have as much creativity and diversity as Wonder.

If a developer designed a whole game around one of these. mechanics it would be a a very mediocre game.  The whole game is built on being diverse  but that's what makes it a very good game other then that the game is extremely simple from what I played so far. Only one seed took me my 5 minutes to find and I really liked that I had to look for it. Where the flower gives a hint about this can't  support the both of us. The seed thing is way over done, get a seed and 25 seconds later, your done with level with very little skill required for 90% of levels, they could have just made it part lf the level, and really just basic level design.

There already are whole games designed around some of the wonder effects, like slow motion or playing in time to the music, good ones at that.

You're allowed to dislike it, nothing is going to appeal to absolutely everyone and I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it perhaps as much as some of us, but the claim that its (a) selling poorly and (b) that bad word of mouth is the cause don't really hold much water logically speaking.



curl-6 said:
zeldaring said:

If a developer designed a whole game around one of these. mechanics it would be a a very mediocre game.  The whole game is built on being diverse  but that's what makes it a very good game other then that the game is extremely simple from what I played so far. Only one seed took me my 5 minutes to find and I really liked that I had to look for it. Where the flower gives a hint about this can't  support the both of us. The seed thing is way over done, get a seed and 25 seconds later, your done with level with very little skill required for 90% of levels, they could have just made it part lf the level, and really just basic level design.

There already are whole games designed around some of the wonder effects, like slow motion or playing in time to the music, good ones at that.

You're allowed to dislike it, nothing is going to appeal to absolutely everyone and I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it perhaps as much as some of us, but the claim that its (a) selling poorly and (b) that bad word of mouth is the cause don't really hold much water logically speaking.

I like the game it's fun and cute. mario and zelda will always hold a special place in my heart. Just saying it doesn't really do anything that pushes the genre forward and many games have the ability to slow time that doesn't mean much, you still need good level design, combat, and many other things to make a game good. Level design is extremely basic in wonder compared to many 2d platformers.



zeldaring said:
curl-6 said:

There already are whole games designed around some of the wonder effects, like slow motion or playing in time to the music, good ones at that.

You're allowed to dislike it, nothing is going to appeal to absolutely everyone and I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it perhaps as much as some of us, but the claim that its (a) selling poorly and (b) that bad word of mouth is the cause don't really hold much water logically speaking.

I like the game it's fun and cute. mario and zelda will always hold a special place in my heart. Just saying it doesn't really do anything that pushes the genre forward and many games have the ability to slow time that doesn't mean much, you still need good level design, combat, and many other things to make a game good. Level design is extremely basic in wonder compared to many 2d platformers.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that, I found the level design to be excellent, though honestly for me personally Retro's DKC games still hold the gold standard there, at least as far as 21st century 2D platformers go.

I feel like Wonder caters to a wider audience and as such needed to keep things more approachable and not as hardcore as DKC Returns or Tropical Freeze.



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curl-6 said:
zeldaring said:

I like the game it's fun and cute. mario and zelda will always hold a special place in my heart. Just saying it doesn't really do anything that pushes the genre forward and many games have the ability to slow time that doesn't mean much, you still need good level design, combat, and many other things to make a game good. Level design is extremely basic in wonder compared to many 2d platformers.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that, I found the level design to be excellent, though honestly for me personally Retro's DKC games still hold the gold standard there, at least as far as 21st century 2D platformers go.

I feel like Wonder caters to a wider audience and as such needed to keep things more approachable and not as hardcore as DKC Returns or Tropical Freeze.

Aside from tropical freeze being more hardcore the levels just feel huge and more alive compared to wonder with way more secrets and exploring. With wonder while it looks beautiful and fun to play it's always the same for 90% of the levels get seed,  new gimmick and 25-35 seconds later you're done with level with very little skill or great platforming required. 



zeldaring said:
curl-6 said:

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that, I found the level design to be excellent, though honestly for me personally Retro's DKC games still hold the gold standard there, at least as far as 21st century 2D platformers go.

I feel like Wonder caters to a wider audience and as such needed to keep things more approachable and not as hardcore as DKC Returns or Tropical Freeze.

Aside from tropical freeze being more hardcore the levels just feel huge and more alive compared to wonder with way more secrets and exploring. With wonder while it looks beautiful and fun to play it's always the same for 90% of the levels get seed,  new gimmick and 25-35 seconds later you're done with level with very little skill or great platforming required. 

The two take very approaches; DKC Return/Tropical Freeze are all about organic level design and a high level of challenge, Wonder is more about introducing a constant stream of new ideas. 

Naturally different people are going to prefer one style over another, that's just personal preference.



zeldaring said:
curl-6 said:

There already are whole games designed around some of the wonder effects, like slow motion or playing in time to the music, good ones at that.

You're allowed to dislike it, nothing is going to appeal to absolutely everyone and I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it perhaps as much as some of us, but the claim that its (a) selling poorly and (b) that bad word of mouth is the cause don't really hold much water logically speaking.

I like the game it's fun and cute. mario and zelda will always hold a special place in my heart. Just saying it doesn't really do anything that pushes the genre forward and many games have the ability to slow time that doesn't mean much, you still need good level design, combat, and many other things to make a game good. Level design is extremely basic in wonder compared to many 2d platformers.

Maybe pushing boundaries wasn’t really a goal for the 2D Mario team. They just wanted to create new ideas for a new 2D Mario that recreate the sense of “secrets and mystery.” It’s why they took their time creating this game. It’s not that big 2D Mario you were hoping for, but it is for others and it’s showing.



Kai_Mao said:
zeldaring said:

I like the game it's fun and cute. mario and zelda will always hold a special place in my heart. Just saying it doesn't really do anything that pushes the genre forward and many games have the ability to slow time that doesn't mean much, you still need good level design, combat, and many other things to make a game good. Level design is extremely basic in wonder compared to many 2d platformers.

Maybe pushing boundaries wasn’t really a goal for the 2D Mario team. They just wanted to create new ideas for a new 2D Mario that recreate the sense of “secrets and mystery.” It’s why they took their time creating this game. It’s not that big 2D Mario you were hoping for, but it is for others and it’s showing.

And unless they do something of a pseudo-sequel to this game like they did with the New series, they'll probably work on new creative gameplay ideas for another game in the future with a different to what we just got. No telling. 

The Mario team beat by their own drums 



Switch Friend Code : 3905-6122-2909 

Only complaint I had with Wonder was the boring boss fights. Everything else was good. And the final boss fight was awesome.



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