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Imaginedvl said:

Interresting :) I have a bit a of a different perspective after playing both weekend and I agree (and disagree with some points) or at least I have a different opinion, but I can clearly see that you played it enough and have a good understanding of it (and other ARPG) :)

My take after playing everyday and levelling all chars to 25 and even farming that 35 Elite to get higher level gears and bring my AP to almost 1000 to all chars 😊

Classes: The 5 classes are different, and I like that a lot with the different mechanics.
Yes the skills are all over the places but we have no clue about so many legendary powers etc.. That’s I would not really be worried about that. Like D2, some skills really start shinning only with the right gear. I expect it to be the case here and this is pretty standard for any ARPG.

Barbarian - One thing that surprised me is how I loved the Barabarian. I never really like it in D2/D3 and was the least character I played (maybe the monk in D3). But the Barbarian in D4 feels SO good. I went with a WW build and farmed all the possible legendary power and I could even almost solo Ashava (some people joined at 20% HP).
Rogue – This fucker is so OP. This is probably the one that can ditch out the most damage at least up to 25 (melee blade fury) and I tried ranged too, was pretty fun. I played around with trap/penetrating shot build too and this was the most fun imo. But not as powerful as the melee one.
Mage – My favorite class in D3 (not really in D2) and while the class was fun to play, I really did not enjoy it as much as the 4 other classes for some reason. It was actually the most painful to get to 25 because I did not have “fun” playing her like the other classe (esp. rogue) where you have to combo/synergize with other skills way more.
Necromancer – I mean… The corpse explosion is just ridiculous 😊 You cannot ditch out the same amount of damage than a rogue but seriously, you can play the whole freaking 1 to 25 with 2 buttons… That’s not for me I think for the full game but I enjoy it for what it was.
Druid – By far the least powerful class (at least in the range of the beta) but I really like it. Played mostly Rabies with Werewolves pets and it was fun all along.

Overall the class balance is not an issue for me cause this is up to 25. That’s not even important to be honest. Level 100 will be what’s important and also, I do not really care about PVP.

Dungeons (and end game) : I liked them and esp. because for me that will be perfect for the end game. Let’s face it, other ARPG are not better and this is what a endgame should look like. Those dungeons are designed to be repeated and played over an over like POE (or rifts in D3) and I agree that the “carry” this item to “to this thing” mechanics are not good and sometime when you have to backtrack it was really annoying. So if we will have to do those dungeons like POE/D3 over and over they need to either remove that or fix it…

World Boss: I loved it 😊 That was a lot of fun, esp. when I go in the first time and died few times figuring out the rotation, skills and positioning (and like you said, behind one of his legs and a bit moving around when he does that move that brings in front arms back) but that was about it and then it was a piece of cake everytime. The idea is really fun to have randoms like that to try to get this down, obviously when we got geared like hell it was killable in 2 or 3 minutes but that will probably scale after 100 only like everything. So, no big deal for me. Being able to farm more than one kill, needs to be fixed, 100% agree.

Crafting/Gear Upgrades: That's super good for me, that's why I like ARPG, the loot and how you can min/max the stats etc. I like what they did in D4. I farmed those level 420+ items from the elite and on my barb. I have almost all items 420+ item power and my weapons are 462 and 464. The fact that you are looking for good rares instead of legendaries and then need to upgrade them (before to apply a leg affix on it or it will cost so much after that), then reroll and finally apply the right legendary affix is gold to me (using the amazing imbue system). There are a lot of options and way to increase/maximize your gears and even more opportunities to find better gear. I really like the system. The +Skill is also back. Of course this was level 25, but I can def. see myself doing that at 100 with the Sacred/Sanctified items that will drop only after level 50 and then 70 etc. and keep farming for better gear. And it will take time, unlike D3 for instance (itemization sucked, let's face it...) and D2 was better but so many useless affixes at the end or the opposite, affixes that were a MUST so basically randering them mandatory which is not a really good design. 

Overall, this was a blast for me. I’m a huge ARPG fans (Diablo, POE, etc.) and this is perfectly aligned with my expectations so far!

June cannot come sooner now.

Yea, like I said, I'm not particularly concerned with the class balance at this point, cus it'll all change in the endgame, and then again by the time the first season rolls around. As a rogue main, I do wish that some of the core skills were a bit more distinctive in their flavor...like, I think I preferred the Demon Hunter abilities in Diablo 3, but it's possible that endgame gear will fundamentally change the way a lot of the abilities function, so we'll see.

Hopefully the dungeon variety and mechanics will be good in the full game. As I said, I'm fine with it being the base of endgame content at launch, at least in principle, it'll just depend on the execution of the details. We all know the core formula in these games is "repetitive grinding" regardless, so whether or not it's fun for hundreds, or even thousands of hours, really all comes down to the finer things.

And yea, again, I really like the idea of the world bosses. And I think for the purposes of an introduction to them, this one was probably fine tbh...but I'd definitely like to see Blizzard push these into a more mechanically challenging direction later in the game, or at least have some rarer world bosses in high world tiers that really demand a lot from high level player groups, rather than them just becoming some sort of guaranteed loot piñata every few hours or so.

I think the crafting and gear system looks promising. I don't wanna say too much about it until we see the sacred, ancestral, and unique pieces and all that, but yea, I think the foundation we saw for all that in the beta was promising.  



Around the Network
Studio Name Year Founded Notable Employees (Roles @ Previous Studio)
Remedy Entertainment 1995 Sam Lake (Lead Writer/Creative Director).
IO Interactive 1998
MercurySteam 2002
Certain Affinity 2006 Former Bungie - Max Hoberman (Multiplayer Lead on Halo 2).
Blackbird Interactive 2007 Former Relic - Rob Cunningham (Creative Director and Co-Founder) | Jon Kambeitz (Co-Founder).
Stoic Studio 2011 Former Bioware - Alex Thomas (Senior Designer on Star Wars: TOR) | John Watson (Lead Combat Programmer) | Arnie Jorgensen (Lead Concept Artist on Star Wars: TOR).
Oxide Games 2013 Former Firaxis - Daniel Baker (Graphics Lead) | Marc Meyer (Senior Programmer) | Brian Wade (Lead Programmer) | Tim Kipp (3D Engine Architect)
Kojima Productions 2015 Former Konami - Hideo Kojima.
Fools Theory 2015 Former CD Projekt Red - Jakub Rokosz (Senior Quest Designer on Witcher 2/3).
Bonfire Studios 2016 Former Blizzard - Rob Pardo (Chief Creative Officer and Lead Designer on WoW).
Build A Rocket Boy 2016 Former Rockstar - Leslie Benzies (President of Rockstar North on GTA III - V).
ProbablyMonsters 2016 Former Bungie - Harold Ryan (President of Bungie).
ProbablyMonsters Cauldron Studio 2016 Former Bungie - Dave Matthews (Art Director)
Probably Monsters Firewalk Studio 2016 Former Bungie - Tony Tsu (Senior Vice President on Destiny).
Jumpship 2017 Former Playdead - Dino Patti (Co-Founder).
Interior Night 2017 Former Quantic Dream - Caroline Marchal (Game Designer on Heavy Rain and Beyond Two Souls).
Embark Studios 2018 Former EA - Patrick Soderlund (Executive Vice President).
Ascendant Studios 2019 Former Sledgehammer/EA - Bret Robbins (Creative Director on Dead Space & Creative Director on WW2, Advanced Warfare and Modern Warfare 3).
Mainframe Industries 2019 Former CCP, Remedy, Next Games Veterans.
WolfEye Studios 2019 Former Arkane - Raphael Colantonio (Co-Founder).
Covenant Studios 2020 Former CD Projekt Red - Stan Just (Producer on The Witcher 3).
Starward Industries 2020 Former CD Projekt Red - Marek Markuszewski (Senior Producer on The Witcher 3).
Bokeh Games Studio 2020 Former Sony Japan - Keiichiro Toyama (Co-Creator of Silent Hill, Siren and Gravity Rush).
Deviation Games 2020 Former Treyarch - Dave Anthony (Vice President).
Dreamhaven 2020 Former Blizzard - Mike Morhaime (Blizzard Co-Founder).
Dreamhaven - Moonshot Games 2020 Former Blizzard - Jason Chayes (Executive Producer).
Dreamhaven - Secret Door 2020 Former Blizzard - Chris Sigaty (Executive Producer/Senior Vice President).
Frost Giant Studios 2020 Former Blizzard - Tim Morten (Production Director on StarCraft II) & Former InXile - Tim Campbell (Game Director on Wasteland 3).
Gravity Well Games 2020 Former Respawn - Drew McCoy (Senior Producer on Titanfall 2) | Jon Shiring (Lead Programmer on Titanfall 2).
Gunzilla Games 2020 Former Crytek - Alexander Zoll (Crytek Kyiv CEO) & Hollywood Director Neill Blomkamp.
Liquid Swords 2020 Former Avalanche - Christofer Sundberg (Co-Founder).
Yellow Brick Games 2020 Former Bioware - Mike Laidlaw (Creative Director/Lead Designer on Dragon Age Franchise).
Mountaintop Studios 2020 Former Oculus - Nate Mitchell (Co-Founder) & Former Respawn, Epic, Riot, Bungie Veterans.
Eyes Out 2021 Former YAGER - Cory Davis (Creative Director on Spec Ops: The Line).
Midnight Society 2021 Dr Disrespect (Twat).
Humanoid Studios 2021 Former Bioware - Casey Hudson (Director on Mass Effect 1-3 and KOTOR).
Ivy Road 2021 Former Fullbright - Karla Zimonja (Co-Founder) & Davey Wreden (Co-Creator of The Stanley Parable).
Lost Lake Games 2021 Former Blizzard - James Phinney (Lead Designer on StarCraft).
Possibility Space 2021 Former Undead Labs - Jeff Strain (Founder).
That's No Moon 2021 Former Naughty Dog - Taylor Kurosaki (Cinematic Lead on Uncharted 3) & Jacob Minkoff (Lead Designer on Uncharted 3 & The Last of Us).
Notorious 2021 Former Blizzard (World of Warcraft).
Bit Reactor 2022 Former Firaxis - Greg Foertsch (Art Director).
Dark Passenger 2022 Former CD Projekt Red - Jakub Ben (Assistant Director) | Marcin Michalski (Senior Environment Artist).
Elemental Games 2022 Former Avalanche Studios - Linus & Viktor Bloomberg (Co-Founders).
Gardens 2022 Former ThatGameCompany & Giant Sparrow - Chris Bell (Lead Game Designer on What Remains of Edith Finch & Game Designer on Journey).
Wildflower Interactive 2022 Former Naughty Dog - Bruce Straley (Game Director on Uncharted 2, The Last of Us, Uncharted 4).
Rebel Wolves 2022 Former CD Projekt Red - Konrad Tomaszkiewicz (Game Director on The Witcher 3).
Unseen Inc 2022 Former Tango Gameworks - Ikumi Nakamura (Lead Artist on The Evil Within).
Moon Beast Productions 2022 Former Blizzard - Peter Hu (Lead Designer on Diablo II) | Phil Shenk (Lead Artist on Diablo II) | Erich Schaefer (Co-Creator on Diablo I/II).
Something Wicked Games 2022 Former Bethesda Games Studios - Jeff Gardiner (Lead Producer on Fallout 4 & Senior Producer on Skyrim).
Gas Giant Games 2023 Former Blizzard - Jay Wilson (Lead Designer on Diablo III) | Julian Love (Lead Technical Artist on Diablo III).
Genpop Interactive 2023 BloodPop (Music Producer).
Maverick Games 2023 Former Playground Games - Mike Brown (Creative Director on Forza Horizon 5).
Wildlight Entertainment 2023 Former Respawn - Chad Grenier (Game Director on Apex Legends) | Carlos Pineda (Lead Game Designer on Apex Legends) | Mohammad Alavi (Narrative Design Lead on Apex Legends) | Jason McCord (Lead Designer on Titanfall 2)
Magic Soup Games 2023 Former Blizzard - Allen Brack (President of Blizzard) & Former Vicarious Visions - Jen O'Neal (Studio Head).
The Believer Company 2023 Former Riot Games - Michael Chow (Vice President) & Steven Snow (Co-Founder).
Lighthouse Games 2023 Former Playground Games - Gavin Raeburn (Co-Founder).

This is what I have so far, any suggestions, anything missing?

I should mess with the table widths.

I've only listed like the very top employees, the vast majority of these studios also have generic "Veterans from XYZ" but I Cba to write that up.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 27 March 2023

Ryuu96 said:
shikamaru317 said:

Well, The Initiative is a bit of a unique case, much like Mistwalker was when they made Lost Odyssey. Both are smaller studios made up of mainly lead and senior devs, while most of the grunt work was being outsourced, with Mistwalker the grunt work was outsourced to Feelplus, with The Initiative it is outsourced to Crystal Dynamics (though some of the lead and senior devs on Perfect Dark are at Crystal, it's not all grunt work there). I think with The Initiative you need to take into account both the 50 current internal devs, and the likely team of 100-150 at Crystal Dynamics that is assisting on it.

Yup Yup...Forgot about Mistwalker which backs my point up a little more.

That is exactly my point though, it's rare and it's unique but it isn't impossible, Lighthouse could very well set themselves up like The Initiative and The Initiative's Perfect Dark is AAA. I don't think this is what Lighthouse Games is doing but I'm just saying, just because they're only 30 employees right now, doesn't mean they aren't AAA...When they say they're AAA, they just mean the game they're working on is AAA.

They've only just set themselves up, they could very well grow to over 100. We've no idea how much they plan on outsourcing either. But desires right now are to be AAA. I don't see why they should be doubted when investors are throwing dozens of millions lately, the Co-Founder of Playground is going to receive a lot of investment on top of the millions that Microsoft gave him for Playground Games, Lol.

I don't really think we are in a position to say to a studio claiming to be AAA "no, you're wrong" when we have no idea at all about their plans, investment, financials, etc.

I know that isn't what you're doing though.

I believe they should be doubt until they actually release a product.  I have seem in my years many senior devs form their own studios to only fail at getting a product to market or the product is sub par.  I do not wish any ill will on any of these new studios, I just know going on your own isn't as easy as a lot of people may believe.  Having aspirations of building a AAA product and actually getting it to market is something totally different.  I have been with and have many friends who have gone to startups and its tough making it.  Some people are way better at being an employee then being a boss or just running a small team then a whole studio.



  • Bonfire Studios - 2016 - Nothing. DEVELOPMENT HELL.
  • Build A Rocket Boy - 2016 - Nothing. DEVELOPMENT HELL.
  • ProbablyMonsters Cauldron Studio - 2016 - Nothing. DEVELOPMENT HELL.
  • Probably Monsters Firewalk Studio - 2016 - Nothing. DEVELOPMENT HELL.
  • Ascendant Studios - 2019 - Nothing. DEVELOPMENT HELL.
  • Mainframe Industries - 2019 - Nothing. DEVELOPMENT HELL.
  • Covenant Studios - 2020 - Nothing. DEVELOPMENT HELL.
  • Starward Industries - 2020 - Nothing. DEVELOPMENT HELL.
  • Bokeh Games Studio - 2020 - Nothing. DEVELOPMENT HELL.
  • Deviation Games - 2020 - Nothing. DEVELOPMENT HELL.
  • Dreamhaven's Moonshot Games - 2020 - Nothing. DEVELOPMENT HELL.
  • Dreamhaven's Secret Door - 2020 - Nothing. DEVELOPMENT HELL.
  • Frost Giant Studios - 2020 - Nothing. DEVELOPMENT HELL.
  • Gravity Well Games - 2020 - Nothing. DEVELOPMENT HELL.
  • Gunzilla Games - 2020 - Nothing. DEVELOPMENT HELL.
  • Liquid Swords - 2020 - Nothing. DEVELOPMENT HELL.
  • Yellow Brick Games - 2020 - Nothing. DEVELOPMENT HELL.
  • Mountaintop Studios - 2020 - Nothing. DEVELOPMENT HELL.

Those 2021 lads only have one year left before they go on my shit list.

I'M JOKING.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 27 March 2023

Ryuu96 said:
shikamaru317 said:

Well, The Initiative is a bit of a unique case, much like Mistwalker was when they made Lost Odyssey. Both are smaller studios made up of mainly lead and senior devs, while most of the grunt work was being outsourced, with Mistwalker the grunt work was outsourced to Feelplus, with The Initiative it is outsourced to Crystal Dynamics (though some of the lead and senior devs on Perfect Dark are at Crystal, it's not all grunt work there). I think with The Initiative you need to take into account both the 50 current internal devs, and the likely team of 100-150 at Crystal Dynamics that is assisting on it.

Yup Yup...Forgot about Mistwalker which backs my point up a little more.

That is exactly my point though, it's rare and it's unique but it isn't impossible, Lighthouse could very well set themselves up like The Initiative and The Initiative's Perfect Dark is AAA. I don't think this is what Lighthouse Games is doing but I'm just saying, just because they're only 30 employees right now, doesn't mean they aren't AAA...When they say they're AAA, they just mean the game they're working on is AAA.

They've only just set themselves up, they could very well grow to over 100. We've no idea how much they plan on outsourcing either. But desires right now are to be AAA. I don't see why they should be doubted when investors are throwing dozens of millions lately, the Co-Founder of Playground is going to receive a lot of investment on top of the millions that Microsoft gave him for Playground Games, Lol.

I don't really think we are in a position to say to a studio claiming to be AAA "no, you're wrong" when we have no idea at all about their plans, investment, financials, etc.

I know that isn't what you're doing though.

Well we'd need to first ask Lighthouse what their definition of AAA is but let just say to compare them to The Initiative I use a roughly 100M budget (no source for this number just seems about right for the Perfect Dark project).

The initiative approach to do such AAA with a small teams is really smart but only possible due to the facts they aren't independent and have a really strong backing parent company. 

A new entity is normally bound by growth pain which rate vary region to region but still form somewhat of a paradox. Take a projects your small team can already tackle bare low risk but limit your growth or take a larger project which would increase your growth potential but substantially increase the risk.

The Initiative use of Crystal dynamics as a partner circumvent the issue raised when they started a larger project then they could chew and now are able to slowly replace the dependance on CD by hiring themselves at an appropriate rate without affecting their schedule much. However The initiative backing environment is strong and stable because it's not independent. if Lighthouse try the same with the only insurance that is the money is currently flowing they have a high risk and non-stable context. They run the risk of getting their fund cut at any time the economic context change or any set back on their development. For instance, Xbox could easily replace CD with another third party if CD put an end to their joint venture for any reason. With lighthouse being Independent an event like this may just kill the project and possibly the studio itself. 

But with that said Lighthouse definition of AAA might just be way more modest than The Initiative one or they may have giant balls of solid steel to manage the risk while being independent or they may just be already on the lookout to being acquired like haven studio did shortly after creation. 

Last edited by EpicRandy - on 27 March 2023

Around the Network
Ryuu96 said:
shikamaru317 said:

Well, The Initiative is a bit of a unique case, much like Mistwalker was when they made Lost Odyssey. Both are smaller studios made up of mainly lead and senior devs, while most of the grunt work was being outsourced, with Mistwalker the grunt work was outsourced to Feelplus, with The Initiative it is outsourced to Crystal Dynamics (though some of the lead and senior devs on Perfect Dark are at Crystal, it's not all grunt work there). I think with The Initiative you need to take into account both the 50 current internal devs, and the likely team of 100-150 at Crystal Dynamics that is assisting on it.

Yup Yup...Forgot about Mistwalker which backs my point up a little more.

That is exactly my point though, it's rare and it's unique but it isn't impossible, Lighthouse could very well set themselves up like The Initiative and The Initiative's Perfect Dark is AAA. I don't think this is what Lighthouse Games is doing but I'm just saying, just because they're only 30 employees right now, doesn't mean they aren't AAA...When they say they're AAA, they just mean the game they're working on is AAA.

They've only just set themselves up, they could very well grow to over 100. We've no idea how much they plan on outsourcing either. But desires right now are to be AAA. I don't see why they should be doubted when investors are throwing dozens of millions lately, the Co-Founder of Playground is going to receive a lot of investment on top of the millions that Microsoft gave him for Playground Games, Lol.

I don't really think we are in a position to say to a studio claiming to be AAA "no, you're wrong" when we have no idea at all about their plans, investment, financials, etc.

I know that isn't what you're doing though.

Yeah, I think it's a safe bet that 30 is only their initial size because they just opened, they likely plan to hit at least 100 before their first game ships since they are advertising as a AAA studio, it would be difficult, though not impossible, to make a AAA with less than that in this day and age.

Here are the current sizes I could find on LinkedIn for some of the other new "AAA" studios that have opened over the last 5 or 6 years from my earlier list:

  • Jar of Sparks- 16 devs (this is the AAA studio headed by the former 343 design head Jerry Hook, seems like he may be struggling to recruit as the studio has been open for about 8 months now)
  • Lightspeed L.A.- 80 devs (opened in 2020 by Tencent as part of their plans for western AAA expansion)
  • Maverick Games- 11 devs (this is the other "AAA" studio opened by former Playground devs, same as Lighthouse, but they only opened 2 months ago so the small size isn't surprising here)
  • That's No Moon- 118 devs (opened in 2021 by former Sony and Infinity Ward devs with a $100m investment from Smilegate)
  • Smilegate Barcelona- 62 devs (opened in 2019)
  • SkyDance New Media- 38 devs (opened in 2019, so they seem small, but they are actually setup just like The Initiative where lead and senior devs come up with concepts for games and oversee development at SkyDance and then the grunt work is outsourced, they are developing their Marvel game in collaboration with one unknown AAA partner, and their Star Wars game with another unknown AAA partner)
  • 31st Union- 161 devs (opened in 2019, this is the new 2K studio headed by former Sledgehammer head Michael Condrey, the other former Sledgehammer head Glenn Schofield opened Striking Distance Studios which developed Calisto Protocol, both studios opened the same year, 2019, but Condrey is clearly taking more time to develop his first game than Schofield took with Calisto Protocol)
  • Cloud Chamber- 174 devs (opened in 2019 though technically 2018, as previous work on Bioshock 4 was done at a different 2K studio starting in 2018 before that Bioshock 4 team at the other studio spun off to create Cloud Chamber in 2019)
  • Ridgeline Games- Current size unknown (opened in 2022, this is the EA Studio headed by Bungie veteran Marcus Lehto)
  • Unnamed EA AAA studio headed by the former head of Monolith- Unknown size currently (opened in 2022)
  • Build A Rocket Boy- 344 devs (opened in 2017 by former Rockstar head producer Leslie Benzies using money earned in an unpaid royalties lawsuit against Rockstar heads Dan and Sam Houser, and rapidly expanded and opened satellite studios in other countries, they are developing an ambitious open world casual MMO with shooting and racing elements in Unreal 5 called Everywhere, which is said to be essentially Ready Player One as a real game, but in addition to developing Everywhere itself, games will be launched by Build a Rocket Boy within Everywhere using it's create your own game tools, including a AAA action game by Leslie Benzies called MindsEye, which has a near future conspiracy storyline and GTA like gameplay, and will be released in episodes)
  • Fool's Theory- 59 devs (developing the Witcher 1 remake, likely in Collab with CD Projekt themselves since they are on the smaller side)
  • Humanoid Studios- 46 devs (opened less than 2 years ago, this is the new AAA studio by former Bioware director Casey Hudson that is developing a AAA new sci-fi IP that is said to be similar to Mass Effect)
  • Fuse Games- 15 devs (opened just 2 months ago by 5 former Criterion devs who left EA after Need For Speed Unbound released in December)
  • Skeleton Key Games- 15 devs (opened less than 8 months ago by Wizards of the Coast as a new AAA studio, seems to be expanding slowly with lead positions still being staffed and senior and grunt work position staffing hasn't even begun yet)
  • Atomic Arcade- 21 devs (another new AAA studio opened just last year by Wizards of the Coast, developing a AAA GI Joe game)
  • Haven Studios- 133 devs (opened in March 2021 and acquired by Sony in March 2022, they seem to have expanded quickly using Sony funding

Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 27 March 2023

I'm going to point out that Mountaintop Studios in that list received $35m in investment. Anyone heard of it? Probably not. Mainframe Industries? Ever heard of it? $23m. ProbablyMonster's? $200m. Gunzilla Games? $46m. Multiple studios on that list easily receiving dozens of millions in investments due to the name behind them, they are more than capable of funding an AAA title.

Gavin Raeburn is already likely a multi-millionaire thanks to Microsoft buying his company. He's the Co-Creator of Playground Games, he helped create one of Xbox's biggest IPs ever, a multi-million selling title which later led to them being acquired by Microsoft, that man is getting either a very large investment, a very large publishing deal or is going to be acquired.

I've zero reason to doubt his AAA claims.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 27 March 2023

Poor Sarah doesn't realise the baseless speculation that she has just opened up.



Ryuu96 said:

Poor Sarah doesn't realise the baseless speculation that she has just opened up.



Machiavellian said:
Ryuu96 said:

Yup Yup...Forgot about Mistwalker which backs my point up a little more.

That is exactly my point though, it's rare and it's unique but it isn't impossible, Lighthouse could very well set themselves up like The Initiative and The Initiative's Perfect Dark is AAA. I don't think this is what Lighthouse Games is doing but I'm just saying, just because they're only 30 employees right now, doesn't mean they aren't AAA...When they say they're AAA, they just mean the game they're working on is AAA.

They've only just set themselves up, they could very well grow to over 100. We've no idea how much they plan on outsourcing either. But desires right now are to be AAA. I don't see why they should be doubted when investors are throwing dozens of millions lately, the Co-Founder of Playground is going to receive a lot of investment on top of the millions that Microsoft gave him for Playground Games, Lol.

I don't really think we are in a position to say to a studio claiming to be AAA "no, you're wrong" when we have no idea at all about their plans, investment, financials, etc.

I know that isn't what you're doing though.

I believe they should be doubt until they actually release a product.  I have seem in my years many senior devs form their own studios to only fail at getting a product to market or the product is sub par.  I do not wish any ill will on any of these new studios, I just know going on your own isn't as easy as a lot of people may believe.  Having aspirations of building a AAA product and actually getting it to market is something totally different.  I have been with and have many friends who have gone to startups and its tough making it.  Some people are way better at being an employee then being a boss or just running a small team then a whole studio.

I accept this but.

  • A product being sub-par doesn't mean it wasn't AAA.
  • A product being cancelled doesn't mean it wasn't AAA.

Plenty of shit AAA's and cancelled AAA's.

I'd accept the argument that all these developers opening straight to AAA are taking a risk but I won't call them liars for claiming their title is AAA, Lol.