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You’re Transported to Fallout’s World, Would You Rather?

Live in a Vault (Random Selection) 17 77.27%
 
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Total:22

I think you guys are missing out on the bigger picture with Series S. Yes, it is selling very well and really helped out with the pandemic caused chipset shortage, but you have to remember that a pandemic of this magnitude is rare, chances are one won't be around to boost an entry level console next-gen. For all the positives associated with Series S this gen, there are also alot of negatives associated with Series S:

  1. The more it sells, the more we move to an all-digital future. An all-digital future is something none of us should want. You never own digital games, so your access to them can be revoked at any point. You can't resell them used to get some quick cash that you need to buy another game you want. Digital game sales are significantly rarer than physical game sales (and this will never change, due to most physical game sales being initiated by retailers trying to clear up space on their shelves and in their backrooms/warehouses, not by the publishers themselves) and those rarer digital sales we do get often have smaller discounts than comparable physical sales. A dying physical market is costing retail jobs as well.
  2. Physical retail presence in non-core Xbox markets is insanely important, but Xbox is never going to be able to attain that retail presence as long as an all-digital entry level console exists. Take Japan for instance, Xbox had great physical retail presence there with Xbox 360, most games got a physical release and Xbox had lots of shelf space in stores, and had shelf space even in smaller, more rural retail stores. All of that was lost during the Xbox One generation due to it's failure in Japan. Xbox has managed to rebuild some of that lost retail presence in Japan this gen, but it is almost exclusively in large retailers in urban areas, smaller retailers still aren't carrying Xbox Series like they did Xbox 360. Why? Well, because S is the model being pushed there primarily, publishers are refusing to release physical games for Xbox Series (it's my understanding that to date, Xbox Series has only received like 15 physical games in Japan in 2 years on the market). Because there are no physical games to stock on the shelves in Japan, the smaller retailers in smaller cities and more rural areas of Japan just don't stock Xbox Series at all, "why waste valuable shelf space on an Xbox section if all we will sell is consoles and a handful of digital code cards" they think. And we're looking at a similar situation in many other smaller markets, not just Japan. Playstation will continue to dominate Xbox in these markets unless something is done about these issues.
  3. Xbox Series S will increasingly be seen as an anchor holding back development by devs over the course of this generation. While the stories about developers currently seeing it as an anchor are being overblown by the gaming media, we are still in the cross-gen period, we're seeing games that have to run on the much weaker Switch, PS4, and XB1 still, so of course Series S isn't seen as the anchor on development currently, by any except a handful of devs, primarily indies who just aren't good at the technical aspect of making games. However, all of this is going to change once last-gen support is dropped, when that happens either Series S or Switch 2 will be the weakest platform planned to be supported by developers depending on the game, and Series S will inevitably start to be seen as more and more of an anchor. Year by year over the course of what is shaping up to be a long, 8-9 year generation, Series S will be seen as starting to drag down development. This will especially be the case when/if the 3rd "Pro" console releases for Xbox, devs will then be expected to try and optimize games for 3 different Xbox platforms, ranging from 4 tflop and 10 GB of RAM at the low end on S, all the way up to probably 18 tflop and 24 GB of RAM on the high end "Pro" Xbox released in ~2025, and when that happens, many devs will be annoyed. 
Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 27 November 2022

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VersusEvil said:

Only thing I picked up in the Black Friday sale in Borderlands GOTY. I was hoping Dragon Age 2 (my favourite DA) DLC would be discounted as I'm about to do another full replay of it.

Wow I thought everyone hated Dragon Age II. I loved it as well. Not a masterpiece like Origins but still a great game.



All digital future? Let's go!! Discs = clutter.



Ride The Chariot || Games Complete ‘24 Edition

shikamaru317 said:

I think you guys are missing out on the bigger picture with Series S. Yes, it is selling very well and really helped out with the pandemic caused chipset shortage, but you have to remember that a pandemic of this magnitude is rare, chances are one won't be around to boost an entry level console next-gen. For all the positives associated with Series S this gen, there are also alot of negatives associated with Series S:

  1. The more it sells, the more we move to an all-digital future. An all-digital future is something none of us should want. You never own digital games, so your access to them can be revoked at any point. You can't resell them used to get some quick cash that you need to buy another game you want. Digital game sales are significantly rarer than physical game sales (and this will never change, due to most physical game sales being initiated by retailers trying to clear up space on their shelves and in their backrooms/warehouses, not by the publishers themselves) and those rarer digital sales we do get often have smaller discounts than comparable physical sales. A dying physical market is costing retail jobs as well.

  2. Xbox Series S will increasingly be seen as an anchor holding back development by devs over the course of this generation. While the stories about developers currently seeing it as an anchor are being overblown by the gaming media, we are still in the cross-gen period, we're seeing games that have to run on the much weaker Switch, PS4, and XB1 still, so of course Series S isn't seen as the anchor on development currently, by any except a handful of devs, primarily indies who just aren't good at the technical aspect of making games. However, all of this is going to change once last-gen support is dropped, when that happens either Series S or Switch 2 will be the weakest platform planned to be supported by developers depending on the game, and Series S will inevitably start to be seen as more and more of an anchor. Year by year over the course of what is shaping up to be a long, 8-9 year generation, Series S will be seen as starting to drag down development. This will especially be the case when/if the 3rd "Pro" console releases for Xbox, devs will then be expected to try and optimize games for 3 different Xbox platforms, ranging from 4 tflop at 10 GB of RAM at the low end on S, all the way up to probably 18 tflop and 24 GB of RAM on the high end Xbox released in 2025, and when that happens, many devs will be annoyed. 



Spec wise sure I guess it is a double edged sword

But I honestly dont mind a digital only future, out of all the purchases I had done, less than 5% were physical this year.

My entire Xbox library is digital and majority of my Switch and PS4's library is digital too.





Now all of that being said, I'm not against Xbox having an entry level model available. However, I think they are going about it all wrong. What they need to do is have the Pro model from the previous gen be treated as the entry level model the next-generation. If they had made Xbox One X a more balanced system that leaned a bit less heavily into GPU and more heavily into CPU and storage improvements, Xbox One X could have taken the place of Series S in the early part of this generation, getting a smaller refresh in 2020 alongside Series X. This is what Xbox needs to be doing in my opinion, instead of having an entry level console like Series S each generation that then must be supported by developers the entire generation, instead treat the mid-gen Pro model from the previous generation as the entry level model for the first half of the next generation.

So we should have seen something like this:

2013- Xbox One- 7 years of required dev support from 2013-2020, then devs are allowed to skip it if they choose.
2017- Xbox One X- 8 years of required dev support from 2017-2025, then devs are allowed to skip it if they choose.
2020- Xbox Series X- 9 years of required dev support from 2020-2029, then devs are allowed to skip it if they choose.
2025- Xbox Series E (for lack of a better name)- 8 years of required developer support from 2025-2033, then devs are allowed to skip it if they choose.
2029- Xbox Series 2- 8 years of required developer support from 2029-2037, then devs are allowed to skip it if they choose.

And so on an so forth. That is a far superior idea than to release a budget entry level model at the beginning of the generation that then must be supported by devs for the entire 8-9 years of the generation. With my idea, those who buy a mid-gen Pro console at launch get a full generation worth of use out of it, whereas the $500 at launch in 2017 Xbox One X is already starting to be skipped by developers in 2022, just 5 years later, because Xbox decided to replace it with Series S instead of designing it to be better balanced at launch so that it could operate as the entry level Xbox at the beginning of this gen. 

Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 27 November 2022

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KiigelHeart said:
VersusEvil said:

Only thing I picked up in the Black Friday sale in Borderlands GOTY. I was hoping Dragon Age 2 (my favourite DA) DLC would be discounted as I'm about to do another full replay of it.

Wow I thought everyone hated Dragon Age II. I loved it as well. Not a masterpiece like Origins but still a great game.

At first I didn't like it, but it was one of those games that stuck in my mind well after and what I didn't like about it started to give it charm lol. After a few years it became a game that I genuinely enjoyed replaying. 



Ride The Chariot || Games Complete ‘24 Edition

KiigelHeart said:
VersusEvil said:

Only thing I picked up in the Black Friday sale in Borderlands GOTY. I was hoping Dragon Age 2 (my favourite DA) DLC would be discounted as I'm about to do another full replay of it.

Wow I thought everyone hated Dragon Age II. I loved it as well. Not a masterpiece like Origins but still a great game.

I actually played Dragon Age 2 one of the few besides watching other rpg on youtube, I couldn't finish it I beat fighting Boss girl with horns cutscene earlier level I think she turned into dragon? then restarted it it did lure me in it's story in the beginiing but by that time Sega released Sonic Generations? I need to go back finish that game Dragon Age 2. 



In dragon Age 2 I was in a church or something talked alot then was outside doing bounty I think? which led me to that one boss fight? Anyone help me remember that fight boss scene ?



shikamaru317 said:

I think you guys are missing out on the bigger picture with Series S. Yes, it is selling very well and really helped out with the pandemic caused chipset shortage, but you have to remember that a pandemic of this magnitude is rare, chances are one won't be around to boost an entry level console next-gen. For all the positives associated with Series S this gen, there are also alot of negatives associated with Series S:

  1. The more it sells, the more we move to an all-digital future. An all-digital future is something none of us should want. You never own digital games, so your access to them can be revoked at any point. You can't resell them used to get some quick cash that you need to buy another game you want. Digital game sales are significantly rarer than physical game sales (and this will never change, due to most physical game sales being initiated by retailers trying to clear up space on their shelves and in their backrooms/warehouses, not by the publishers themselves) and those rarer digital sales we do get often have smaller discounts than comparable physical sales. A dying physical market is costing retail jobs as well.

  2. Physical retail presence in non-core Xbox markets is insanely important, but Xbox is never going to be able to attain that retail presence as long as an all-digital entry level console exists. Take Japan for instance, Xbox had great physical retail presence there with Xbox 360, most games got a physical release and Xbox had lots of shelf space in stores, and had shelf space even in smaller, more rural retail stores. All of that was lost during the Xbox One generation due to it's failure in Japan. Xbox has managed to rebuild some of that lost retail presence in Japan this gen, but it is almost exclusively in large retailers in urban areas, smaller retailers still aren't carrying Xbox Series like they did Xbox 360. Why? Well, because S is the model being pushed there primarily, publishers are refusing to release physical games for Xbox Series (it's my understanding that to date, Xbox Series has only received like 15 physical games in Japan in 2 years on the market). Because there are no physical games to stock on the shelves in Japan, the smaller retailers in smaller cities and more rural areas of Japan just don't stock Xbox Series at all, "why waste valuable shelf space on an Xbox section if all we will sell is consoles and a handful of digital code cards" they think. And we're looking at a similar situation in many other smaller markets, not just Japan. Playstation will continue to dominate Xbox in these markets unless something is done about these issues.

  3. Xbox Series S will increasingly be seen as an anchor holding back development by devs over the course of this generation. While the stories about developers currently seeing it as an anchor are being overblown by the gaming media, we are still in the cross-gen period, we're seeing games that have to run on the much weaker Switch, PS4, and XB1 still, so of course Series S isn't seen as the anchor on development currently, by any except a handful of devs, primarily indies who just aren't good at the technical aspect of making games. However, all of this is going to change once last-gen support is dropped, when that happens either Series S or Switch 2 will be the weakest platform planned to be supported by developers depending on the game, and Series S will inevitably start to be seen as more and more of an anchor. Year by year over the course of what is shaping up to be a long, 8-9 year generation, Series S will be seen as starting to drag down development. This will especially be the case when/if the 3rd "Pro" console releases for Xbox, devs will then be expected to try and optimize games for 3 different Xbox platforms, ranging from 4 tflop at 10 GB of RAM at the low end on S, all the way up to probably 18 tflop and 24 GB of RAM on the high end Xbox released in 2025, and when that happens, many devs will be annoyed. 

1. That would be something that Microsoft and every publisher/developer in the industry would love though, so it wouldn't be a reason why a Series S-like console in the future doesn't happen.

You can argue whether that is a good or bad thing or whether you simply don't care. I don't think we'll ever see a future (at least not anytime soon) where major releases are consistently releasing digital only, there will always be a group of people who enjoy physical to cater to.

But I will say that the evidence from publishers is already suggesting that consumers are moving towards digital by large, the ratio between physical/digital is becoming really wide, consumers are already speaking with their wallets on this subject.

2. Xbox Series S is being pushed almost everywhere more than Xbox Series X because they simply don't have the stock for Series X, I think you're mixing availability with demand, if the Xbox Series X was regularly in stock then there's no reason retailers shouldn't stock Series X even if they don't want to stock Series S.

The same logic would apply to PlayStation because they have a digital only console and consumers are moving largely towards digital anyway. If Series X was steadily available like Series S, then there would be no reason not to stock it and if you don't stock it because "Xbox is largely digital" then you might as well not stock any console because that trend if true even if Series S didn't exist and true on PlayStation as well now.

If anything, I would speculate that a large part of Xbox's success in Japan is largely down to Japanese consumers liking Series S.

3. This remains to be seen, as you stated yourself, we're still in a cross-gen period, many developers are still supporting Xbox One/PS4 and low-end PC's. Thousands of developers are supporting Switch, which is weaker than them both, even many AAA's have released on Switch from major developers. Switch 2 will still likely be weaker than Series S and yet be heavily supported by the indie industry and a few AAA developers.

Developers will find a way; they optimise for multiple different platforms all the time, from Xbox to PlayStation to low end PC to mid end PC to high end PC to sometimes Switch, etc.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 27 November 2022

shikamaru317 said:

Now all of that being said, I'm not against Xbox having an entry level model available. However, I think they are going about it all wrong. What they need to do is have the Pro model from the previous gen be treated as the entry level model the next-generation. If they had made Xbox One X a more balanced system that leaned a bit less heavily into GPU and more heavily into CPU and storage improvements, Xbox One X could have taken the place of Series S in the early part of this generation, getting a smaller refresh in 2020 alongside Series X. This is what Xbox needs to be doing in my opinion, instead of having an entry level console like Series S each generation that then must be supported by developers the entire generation, instead treat the mid-gen Pro model from the previous generation as the entry level model for the first half of the next generation.

So we should have seen something like this:

2013- Xbox One- 7 years of required dev support from 2013-2020, then devs are allowed to skip it if they choose.
2017- Xbox One X- 8 years of required dev support from 2017-2025, then devs are allowed to skip it if they choose.
2020- Xbox Series X- 9 years of required dev support from 2020-2029, then devs are allowed to skip it if they choose.
2025- Xbox Series E (for lack of a better name)- 8 years of required developer support from 2025-2033, then devs are allowed to skip it if they choose.
2029- Xbox Series 2- 8 years of required developer support from 2029-2037, then devs are allowed to skip it if they choose.

And so on an so forth. That is a far superior idea than to release a budget entry level model at the beginning of the generation that then must be supported by devs for the entire 8-9 years of the generation. With my idea, those who buy a mid-gen Pro console at launch get a full generation worth of use out of it, whereas the $500 at launch in 2017 Xbox One X is already starting to be skipped by developers in 2022, just 5 years later, because Xbox decided to replace it with Series S instead of designing it to be better balanced at launch so that it could operate as the entry level Xbox at the beginning of this gen. 

I'm lost. Series S is better than One X in every way aside from resolution, why would you want that? Lol. Just up the res for Series S but Res doesn't mean lightning, effects, textures, etc. Another issue with that is both that Xbox One was a tarnished brand and when you launch next gen, consumers aren't really that interested in last gen anymore.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 27 November 2022