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People are more than welcome not to like BotW, I won't dispute personal preference, but I wanted to provide an example of what I am talking about.

There is an enemy camp in a valley between two mountains, I can (as the player):

Run in the camp and fight the enemies
Climb the mountains and go around
Light the field on fire and use thermal energy to fly over
Use a platform, tie balloons and fly over
Use a platform, load bombs, fly over the camp and shot the balloons to drop bombs
I can put on stealth armor and sneak through the camp
But on enemy armor and blend in
Use fire arrows and set the camp on fire
If there is water I can put on electric armor and shock the enemies
Statsis a rock and fly over the camp
If there is a storm, put metal weapons around the camp and shock the enemies
I can use a metal crate via telekinesis to use it as a ram and shield
Ice arrows to freeze enemies and just run past
Use a horse to run past
Create a multitude of distractions (such as blowing up trees)
Blow up boulders and have them crush the enemies
Shoot a metal box with electric arrows, shock enemies
Use bomb arrows
Stasis enemies
Push enemies that can't swim in water to kill them
Build a catapult to fly over the camp
Build a catapult to bomb enemies
If on a hill I can shield surf through the camp

Having played hundreds of games... I just have not played a game with a physics engine allowing for so many options. And I am probably missing quite a few options.



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Chrkeller said:
HoloDust said:

Suit yourself, I guess. People seem to forget that Ultima is arguably most influental video game IP ever made (albeit not most popular), and there are tons of good reasons for that. So, yeah, Ultima had those things you're attributing to BotW as new and first at least some 30 years ago.

I won't dispute Ultima's impact.  But BotW interactions is based on physics engine, which Ultimate absolutely did not have.  Play BotW and it becomes obvious just how impactful the physics engine is.  

I like physics in games as part of gameplay, but, IMO, game needs to be built around it, not like BotW physics that is sorely limited by what devs allowed to be or not influenced by it. I've played through BotW, then I had to sit and watch my older son's playthrough, and neither time I thought of BotW as anything more than just a solid game with lot of flaws. And that comes from someone who loves Zelda and loves openworld games since 80s.



HoloDust said:
Chrkeller said:

I won't dispute Ultima's impact.  But BotW interactions is based on physics engine, which Ultimate absolutely did not have.  Play BotW and it becomes obvious just how impactful the physics engine is.  

I like physics in games as part of gameplay, but, IMO, game needs to be built around it, not like BotW physics that is sorely limited by what devs allowed to be or not influenced by it. I've played through BotW, then I had to sit and watch my older son's playthrough, and neither time I thought of BotW as anything more than just a solid game with lot of flaws. And that comes from someone who loves Zelda and loves openworld games since 80s.

Fair enough.  I can't argue personal opinion.  I thought Red Dead Redemption 2 was a flaming pile of garbage.  So I get not loving a game most others do.  Nothing wrong with that.



Chrkeller said:
Hynad said:

You never played those Ultima games. 

Actually I have.  My stance stays at "no."  

And aren't you are on the record as having only played 2 hours of BotW??  Assuming that is accurate, seems odd you are questioning what I have played.  

The heck are you on about? I finished the Wii U version of the game, with DLCs, and got the game again (with DLCs as well) for the Switch once I managed to get my hands on one.

Zelda is one of my favourite gaming franchises and I have played, multiple times, most of the mainline titles.

So, no, your assumption is not accurate and I wonder what the heck you based this on.

Last edited by Hynad - on 14 July 2022

Hynad said:
Chrkeller said:

And aren't you are on the record as having only played 2 hours of BotW??  Assuming that is accurate, seems odd you are questioning what I have played.  

The heck are you on about? I finished the Wii U version of the game, with DLCs, and got the game again (with DLCs as well) for the Switch once I managed to get my hands on one.

Zelda is one of my favourite gaming franchises and I have played, multiple times, most of the mainline titles.

So, no, your assumption is not accurate and I wonder what the heck you based this on.

Probably confused you for this guy:

Drakrami said:

I've played like 2 hours of BotW (it's in my backlog games to play), can you elaborate what's this high praise you are giving it for innovation? It's just open world Zelda, an amazing game, but what's the innovative part? Assassin's Creed is an excellent example. The 1st two ACs that came out in 2007 was very innovative for the gaming industry as a whole. AC4 (Blackflag) bought new elements and they are now basically making a sequel to that called Skull and Bones. And then they basically rebirthed the franchise with AC Origins in 2017. Tons of innovation people don't talk about and take for granted. They do have flaw of releasing a new AC every year, but that's not the main point. 

And you writing off Square's innovation is laughable, again taking things for granted. Do you know how different combat systems are from FF10 to 12 to 13? 15 is all action, if it's good or not or innovative, that's debatable. But for 16, they are again doing a totally new combat system. What's Zelda's combat system? R1 for Slash?

It's uhh, what happens when people see these arguments in an "us vs. them" way. Chrkeller sided with me and you joined in on the conversation after Drakrami so that's probably why he mixed up the two of you.




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Hynad said:
Chrkeller said:

Actually I have.  My stance stays at "no."  

And aren't you are on the record as having only played 2 hours of BotW??  Assuming that is accurate, seems odd you are questioning what I have played.  

The heck are you on about? I finished the Wii U version of the game, with DLCs, and got the game again (with DLCs as well) for the Switch once I managed to get my hands on one.

Zelda is one of my favourite gaming franchises and I have played, multiple times, most of the mainline titles.

So, no, your assumption is not accurate and I wonder what the heck you based this on.

Yeah that is my mistake.  I was reading on my phone and thought Drakrami's post was yours.  Apologies.  



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I love all types of games the only realistic ones we should not change is Madden, Fifa, GTA series, UFC, Call of Duty.Fight Simulator 2020 Just think If GTA or Madden had cartoon graphics or are cell shaded etc if anything I like the current Madden what we need is NFL blitz revival the arcade football type like how Sony did on PS3 Gran Turismo 5 for Realism and Little Big Planet Karting for the arcade + Cartoon unrealism.



Cute and honest Sega Saturn fan, also noone should buy Sega grrrr, Sega for life. The reason I'm chaotic to few 3rd party developers is because I'm protecting Sega and also I lack skill to get really hot girl I really want. also few devs deserve it for making bad game's personal experiences, looking at Ghost Blade HD the shmup or Fighting EX Layer. My standards are too high for genres I play. KOF 13 > Fighting EX layer gameplay.

Chrkeller said:
Drakrami said:

I've played like 2 hours of BotW (it's in my backlog games to play), can you elaborate what's this high praise you are giving it for innovation? It's just open world Zelda, an amazing game, but what's the innovative part? Assassin's Creed is an excellent example. The 1st two ACs that came out in 2007 was very innovative for the gaming industry as a whole. AC4 (Blackflag) bought new elements and they are now basically making a sequel to that called Skull and Bones. And then they basically rebirthed the franchise with AC Origins in 2017. Tons of innovation people don't talk about and take for granted. They do have flaw of releasing a new AC every year, but that's not the main point. 

And you writing off Square's innovation is laughable, again taking things for granted. Do you know how different combat systems are from FF10 to 12 to 13? 15 is all action, if it's good or not or innovative, that's debatable. But for 16, they are again doing a totally new combat system. What's Zelda's combat system? R1 for Slash? 

It is an open world non linear game.  Elder Scrolls, Forbidden West and Elden Ring require the main story to played out linearly.  BotW I can approach the story in a non linear fashion.  Additionally the physics engine allows for some crazy creativity.  The main advantage is being able to tackle a problem in a wide variety of approaches.

As for combat, I would like to see Zelda do better.  The combat in BotW was weak.  I would love BotW to be souls like.

So far from the truth.. Skyrim for example, I can live in the world don't do any main story and still have a blast just by exploring and doing visiting the different cities, doing side quests and exploring all the caves and mountains. Open world itself is non linear, not even sure what are you trying to say about BOTW. The physics is something new yes, innovative, but nothing ground breaking and never seen before... 



Chrkeller said:
HoloDust said:

I like physics in games as part of gameplay, but, IMO, game needs to be built around it, not like BotW physics that is sorely limited by what devs allowed to be or not influenced by it. I've played through BotW, then I had to sit and watch my older son's playthrough, and neither time I thought of BotW as anything more than just a solid game with lot of flaws. And that comes from someone who loves Zelda and loves openworld games since 80s.

Fair enough.  I can't argue personal opinion.  I thought Red Dead Redemption 2 was a flaming pile of garbage.  So I get not loving a game most others do.  Nothing wrong with that.

Personally, I wouldn't call RDR2 pile of garbage, but throughout my playtrhough I was constantly thinking that it would be better as mostly linear game. Open world part of it can be lot of fun, but it's almost completely disconnected from main story, since nothing you do in the world really matters for further "progress".

This is the problem of pretty much all "openworld" video games, thinking that sandbox is openworld, where in truth none of them actually are. Openworld comes from tabletop RPGs, and there it means anything is possible (to try at least) and the world will react to it, for better or worse.

Last edited by HoloDust - on 15 July 2022