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Is free speech suppressed on the internet's main public squares

Yes 56 53.85%
 
No 44 42.31%
 
Undecided 4 3.85%
 
Total:104
Machiavellian said:
TallSilhouette said:

Captain Free Speech strikes again; bans journalists under paper thin pretenses. Also just so happens to suspend the account of Twitter's growing competitor, Mastodon. That honestly gives me some incentive to actually check the latter out and maybe sign up.

I think anyone paying attention can see that Elon really isn't about free speech but more about control.  He bought Twitter so he can pretty much do whatever he wants as long as he stays within the laws of the different countries twitter operates in.  I believe we are seeing that Twitter under Musk actually really isn't all that much different from Twitter under previous management when it comes to content control.

What were the kinds of things that got banned previously?



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV will outsell Super Smash Bros. Brawl. I was wrong.

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RolStoppable said:
Machiavellian said:

I think anyone paying attention can see that Elon really isn't about free speech but more about control.  He bought Twitter so he can pretty much do whatever he wants as long as he stays within the laws of the different countries twitter operates in.  I believe we are seeing that Twitter under Musk actually really isn't all that much different from Twitter under previous management when it comes to content control.

What were the kinds of things that got banned previously?

One example is from 2020 when Twitter blocked New York Post from tweeting until they agreed not to post anything about Biden's son's laptop story. And this imo is a bigger thing than Musk banning a journalist for sharing a link to an account which tracks his plane (if this is what happened, I'm not sure but I'm very much against doxxing of any kind). 



Elon simps are really funny. It's also funny how he keeps getting owned. Real world stakes aside, it's very funny.



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Machiavellian said:
ConservagameR said:

Was said by Louella Parsons over 50 years ago through the main stream media as a gossip columnist. Then the main stream continued with it. Fox started using it eventually like the rest of the media these days because it became the newest hit word again for a time.

Unexpectedly from my point of view. I don't see how it makes sense from yours since you didn't get it. If I explained it was a joke right after the joke that would make it a terrible joke. It's also not clear that me explaining things is always good enough, as some tend to need much deeper detailed breakdowns.

If the context doesn't make sense, you very well might have missed something. If you believe some people are bad based on poor reasoning, it's more likely you'll misinterpret what they're saying. You used, exactly, 3 times in your 4 short sentences when asking what I meant in your first reply. Sounded fairly serious to me. Not all jokes are funny, and while the audience usually gets the final say, if they didn't get the joke then they really don't have much say about it.

First, I did not respond to your joke, I responded to your reply.  You made a declaration statement on what the MSM is and isn't reporting which I was more interested in then your original statement. Then you seem to call that one a joke as well which as I stated, doesn't seem to be a joke and if it was, I did not get the context of it.  You stated Bombshell news as if this context meant anything outside of whatever meaning you believe the words mean.  I was trying to deduce which media actually used this statement from MSM which was the point you made within your post.  As I stated, I did not see the connection since I have been following all MSM as well as other media sources on this topic.  Thus contextually, what you consider a joke lack context to the topic we were talking about.

Like I said, most people who make jokes always believe someone gets it and if they do not there is a problem with that person.  The joker never consider that the problem could also be the person making the joke.  Your whole line appear to be, well you did not get the joke, so sucks to be you.  Mine line is that your joke was neither funny, witty, cleaver and lacked imagination.  Who is to say which person would be correct in this situation either way does it really matter.  Its probably one of the reasons I rarely if ever tell jokes over text to strangers since I have no clue who I am talking to and whether or not they would understand if I am joking or not.  Most jokes are contextual so they either hit or miss depending on the audience.

Also, how exactly can you tell if someone is serious when reading text.  I always wondered why people make such comments.  There really is no way for you to tell how someone is serious concerning a subject just by reading a text.  

When you make a comment about relax as if you know me or know how I currently feel just makes me believe you are projecting your own emotions.  You will never see those statements from me because I have no clue what you are feeling thus I will never guess on it.  Text is way to impersonal to gleam anything more than a point either side is trying to get across. 

First, you responded to my initial post which was a reply to someone else, not you. That post included the joke about the main stream media.

Secondly, I didn't talk about what the main stream media was or wasn't reporting here. I simply made a joke about their term bombshell.

Thirdly, you tend to assume the worst about me like how I'm always not considering things. It was considered, just wasn't the case.

Fourth, I didn't think sucks to be you, I just thought it was funny that I figured it was clear enough and yet wasn't for you I guess, who also seems to have beef with me, which looks to lead to serious behavior, and even after explaining it was a joke, you still don't want to really admit it was and yet are also trying to defend it by saying it sucked. Why would I make a joke that likely nobody would be able to pick up on, or purposely try and hide it, only to then point out that someone else didn't get it? Doesn't make any sense to me.

Fifth, for people, like mods, not knowing me, who I am, how I think, what I mean, etc, I get an awful lot of negativity and warnings coming my way. Like even when I further explain myself, with further context, it's rarely enough apparently, or when it is, the conclusion tends to be that I'm a bad person either way so I must be lying or don't understand myself apparently.

Sixth, if you can't tell much from text, like meanings, feelings, etc, how can you moderate? Wouldn't you always have to ask if they were serious or not, and even then, couldn't they be joking about being serious, or vice versa? How would you know, and so how could you make a reasonable decision? Can't help but be curious based on what you've said here.



KiigelHeart said:
RolStoppable said:

What were the kinds of things that got banned previously?

One example is from 2020 when Twitter blocked New York Post from tweeting until they agreed not to post anything about Biden's son's laptop story. And this imo is a bigger thing than Musk banning a journalist for sharing a link to an account which tracks his plane (if this is what happened, I'm not sure but I'm very much against doxxing of any kind).

Tbf.

It is publicly available data, so I don't agree that it counts as doxing, anyone can look this stuff up, it took me under a minute to find it, it's a bit like someone publicly posting their house on Twitter and someone reposting it, that isn't doxing Imho. You'd probably have to push law to make stuff like ADS-B illegal and other flight trackers.

But the location is broadcasted by the jet as required by law, no matter who owns it, you want a private jet, it has to be registered, if he doesn't want to be tracked in this way then he can just fly commercial like the rest of us, Lol.

Plus Musk said that he wouldn't ban the account, then suddenly changed Twitter's rules to make this kind of thing against the rules and suddenly banned the account and since I don't agree the above is doxing, I really don't agree that journalists reporting on it is doxing, it's public data and it's a constantly moving jet, it isn't like Musk lives there, by the time journalists report on it, he'll be gone.

ElonJet IIRC was set up to expose Musk's hypocrisy on climate change whilst constantly using a private jet, similarly people have tracked other celebrities private jets across the years cause it's pretty easy to find this stuff out (and a lot recently used it to track Russian Oligarchs, Lol).

Twitter blocked NYP because they had a policy against leaking hacked materials, which is a lot more understandable than publicly available data, Imo. But hey it's Musk's Twitter now so w/e, he can create all the rules he wants, I just don't agree that it is doxing, he just had a grudge against that ElonJet account.

Automatic Dependent Surveillance–Broadcast - Wikipedia

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 16 December 2022

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Elon and these, reading between the line tweets, inside joke tweets, your rules not mine tweets, my new off the cuff rule tweets, etc, are so naughty.

Makes for pools of conservative tears. He should start selling tumblers on Twitter. Cha ching!



ConservagameR said:
Machiavellian said:

First, I did not respond to your joke, I responded to your reply.  You made a declaration statement on what the MSM is and isn't reporting which I was more interested in then your original statement. Then you seem to call that one a joke as well which as I stated, doesn't seem to be a joke and if it was, I did not get the context of it.  You stated Bombshell news as if this context meant anything outside of whatever meaning you believe the words mean.  I was trying to deduce which media actually used this statement from MSM which was the point you made within your post.  As I stated, I did not see the connection since I have been following all MSM as well as other media sources on this topic.  Thus contextually, what you consider a joke lack context to the topic we were talking about.

Like I said, most people who make jokes always believe someone gets it and if they do not there is a problem with that person.  The joker never consider that the problem could also be the person making the joke.  Your whole line appear to be, well you did not get the joke, so sucks to be you.  Mine line is that your joke was neither funny, witty, cleaver and lacked imagination.  Who is to say which person would be correct in this situation either way does it really matter.  Its probably one of the reasons I rarely if ever tell jokes over text to strangers since I have no clue who I am talking to and whether or not they would understand if I am joking or not.  Most jokes are contextual so they either hit or miss depending on the audience.

Also, how exactly can you tell if someone is serious when reading text.  I always wondered why people make such comments.  There really is no way for you to tell how someone is serious concerning a subject just by reading a text.  

When you make a comment about relax as if you know me or know how I currently feel just makes me believe you are projecting your own emotions.  You will never see those statements from me because I have no clue what you are feeling thus I will never guess on it.  Text is way to impersonal to gleam anything more than a point either side is trying to get across. 

First, you responded to my initial post which was a reply to someone else, not you. That post included the joke about the main stream media.

Secondly, I didn't talk about what the main stream media was or wasn't reporting here. I simply made a joke about their term bombshell.

Thirdly, you tend to assume the worst about me like how I'm always not considering things. It was considered, just wasn't the case.

Fourth, I didn't think sucks to be you, I just thought it was funny that I figured it was clear enough and yet wasn't for you I guess, who also seems to have beef with me, which looks to lead to serious behavior, and even after explaining it was a joke, you still don't want to really admit it was and yet are also trying to defend it by saying it sucked. Why would I make a joke that likely nobody would be able to pick up on, or purposely try and hide it, only to then point out that someone else didn't get it? Doesn't make any sense to me.

Fifth, for people, like mods, not knowing me, who I am, how I think, what I mean, etc, I get an awful lot of negativity and warnings coming my way. Like even when I further explain myself, with further context, it's rarely enough apparently, or when it is, the conclusion tends to be that I'm a bad person either way so I must be lying or don't understand myself apparently.

Sixth, if you can't tell much from text, like meanings, feelings, etc, how can you moderate? Wouldn't you always have to ask if they were serious or not, and even then, couldn't they be joking about being serious, or vice versa? How would you know, and so how could you make a reasonable decision? Can't help but be curious based on what you've said here.

You continue to fall on this joke concept but as mentioned it did not appear to be a joke beyond what is going on in your own mind.  

The funny part is that you believe I assume anything about you.  If I ask you a question, its me looking for understanding on what you posted but it seems in your mind you have this victim complex that everyone is out to get you.  That I would say is your own projection.  There is nothing from my post that makes any assumption as to who you are since I only respond to the nature of your post.  I have no clue about you personally since I do not know you.

Yeah, I put the sucks to be you based on the content of your last paragraph and the funny part is, it was a joke.  Notice how you responded to that joke and how easy it is to misinterpret a joke when its text from someone you do not know.  It appears you also from that line jumped to a lot of assumptions based on that simple joke and probably did not see it as a joke either.  In my mind it was a simple joke, I am guessing it was not so much to you.

I do not care who you are, how you think or any of that.  As a mod, I only care if you follow the rules of the site.  I do not care if I agree with any statements you make or none at all you are cool with me but if I see conduct that appears to be getting close or crosses the rules of the site, I rather direct a person to that instead of banning.  You can dismiss with the victim mentality with me because if I am responding to you as a mod, there will be no doubt in your mind the difference.  Currently I only look at this as mild conversation on a topic.

As to your last paragraph, that is exactly what I am telling you.  I do not moderate on feelings, guessing what the meaning is from text, trying to figure out who you are all that BS.  I only care if you follow the rules of the forum.  If your joke crosses a line, I will ban you no matter if you are joking or not.  See how that works, there is no feelings that I need to have.  I do not have to sit here and interpret what you meaning is. If you say something that I believe comes close to breaking the rules of the site, I will let you know.  After that I will ban you because I will be very specific what I believe crosses the line.  You will never not understand what I feel crosses the line because I will tell you first and there will be no ambiguity on the subject.

 



KiigelHeart said:
RolStoppable said:

What were the kinds of things that got banned previously?

One example is from 2020 when Twitter blocked New York Post from tweeting until they agreed not to post anything about Biden's son's laptop story. And this imo is a bigger thing than Musk banning a journalist for sharing a link to an account which tracks his plane (if this is what happened, I'm not sure but I'm very much against doxxing of any kind). 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden_laptop_controversy

Sounds like Twitter's action stopped misinformation from spreading further, because the story from the NYP could not be verified in the end. The oppression of the truth is a bad thing, but in this particular case the opposite happened.

Musk has not been doxxed, he has merely picked up one of the most common tactics of the far-right: Portraying yourself as the victim to gain an advantage.

Musk is just getting started with Twitter, but there are already clear signs that he wants to limit free speech greatly. He makes up new rules on the fly to justify banning accounts he doesn't like. It shouldn't be expected that Twitter will have a consistent ruleset nor application of said ruleset. Double standards and hypocrisy will become a common and regular occurence for Musk and Twitter. That's the direction that has been set.

Such a direction will not be loathed by everyone, because there are many people who have longed for the day to stick it to the left in the USA or whatever. What such people don't realize is how such a system can backfire easily; it's only good as long as you agree with the guy in power, but when the moment comes that the guy in power has something else in mind, then there's no way to object anymore as full power has been granted to him voluntarily. Thankfully, Twitter is a mere business and not a state, so at best Musk can create a bubble outside of the real world. Kind of like ResetEra's political threads, but on a much larger scale.

It's going to be an entertaining gift that will keep on giving. Chances are that a rival social media platform will eventually supplant Twitter, because if Musk chases the good content creators away, the followers of these accounts will... well, follow to the new place. It's likely going to be a while until then though, because Musk's approach is very US-centric, so a global platform like Twitter will have a ton of people who remain largely unaffected by Musk's antics.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV will outsell Super Smash Bros. Brawl. I was wrong.

Machiavellian said:
ConservagameR said:

First, you responded to my initial post which was a reply to someone else, not you. That post included the joke about the main stream media.

Secondly, I didn't talk about what the main stream media was or wasn't reporting here. I simply made a joke about their term bombshell.

Thirdly, you tend to assume the worst about me like how I'm always not considering things. It was considered, just wasn't the case.

Fourth, I didn't think sucks to be you, I just thought it was funny that I figured it was clear enough and yet wasn't for you I guess, who also seems to have beef with me, which looks to lead to serious behavior, and even after explaining it was a joke, you still don't want to really admit it was and yet are also trying to defend it by saying it sucked. Why would I make a joke that likely nobody would be able to pick up on, or purposely try and hide it, only to then point out that someone else didn't get it? Doesn't make any sense to me.

Fifth, for people, like mods, not knowing me, who I am, how I think, what I mean, etc, I get an awful lot of negativity and warnings coming my way. Like even when I further explain myself, with further context, it's rarely enough apparently, or when it is, the conclusion tends to be that I'm a bad person either way so I must be lying or don't understand myself apparently.

Sixth, if you can't tell much from text, like meanings, feelings, etc, how can you moderate? Wouldn't you always have to ask if they were serious or not, and even then, couldn't they be joking about being serious, or vice versa? How would you know, and so how could you make a reasonable decision? Can't help but be curious based on what you've said here.

You continue to fall on this joke concept but as mentioned it did not appear to be a joke beyond what is going on in your own mind.  

The funny part is that you believe I assume anything about you.  If I ask you a question, its me looking for understanding on what you posted but it seems in your mind you have this victim complex that everyone is out to get you.  That I would say is your own projection.  There is nothing from my post that makes any assumption as to who you are since I only respond to the nature of your post.  I have no clue about you personally since I do not know you.

Yeah, I put the sucks to be you based on the content of your last paragraph and the funny part is, it was a joke.  Notice how you responded to that joke and how easy it is to misinterpret a joke when its text from someone you do not know.  It appears you also from that line jumped to a lot of assumptions based on that simple joke and probably did not see it as a joke either.  In my mind it was a simple joke, I am guessing it was not so much to you.

I do not care who you are, how you think or any of that.  As a mod, I only care if you follow the rules of the site.  I do not care if I agree with any statements you make or none at all you are cool with me but if I see conduct that appears to be getting close or crosses the rules of the site, I rather direct a person to that instead of banning.  You can dismiss with the victim mentality with me because if I am responding to you as a mod, there will be no doubt in your mind the difference.  Currently I only look at this as mild conversation on a topic.

As to your last paragraph, that is exactly what I am telling you.  I do not moderate on feelings, guessing what the meaning is from text, trying to figure out who you are all that BS.  I only care if you follow the rules of the forum.  If your joke crosses a line, I will ban you no matter if you are joking or not.  See how that works, there is no feelings that I need to have.  I do not have to sit here and interpret what you meaning is. If you say something that I believe comes close to breaking the rules of the site, I will let you know.  After that I will ban you because I will be very specific what I believe crosses the line.  You will never not understand what I feel crosses the line because I will tell you first and there will be no ambiguity on the subject.

So once again, I don't know what I'm saying or what it means and don't understand myself. Ok then.

I'd say something similar about my questions, but I'd be wrong since they're mostly sealioning I guess, so why bother. Ok then.

How do you know my reply to your, sucks to be you thought, wasn't a joke about your joke? Would you have picked that up? Ok then.

Good to know you weren't concerned about what, exactly, is or isn't bombshell news as per certain outlets. Ok then.

As long as you gave fair warning and took some time to understand the context then that seems fair. That doesn't seem to be the case about how you started the explanation as to banning a joke that crosses the line even if it's not a joke. That you wouldn't have to interpret it as meant and could just ban. That would imply lacking context, intent, or simply not caring. Seems like a poor way of conducting oneself if a mod were to choose that route I'd say.

The most recent joke nonsense is enough for me for now. How serious am I supposed to take you going forward not knowing if you're serious or joking? Can I rely on you to let me know for sure immediately after the joke, or find out after a ban? Maybe I'm still not being selective enough as to my replies.



ConservagameR said:
Machiavellian said:

You continue to fall on this joke concept but as mentioned it did not appear to be a joke beyond what is going on in your own mind.  

The funny part is that you believe I assume anything about you.  If I ask you a question, its me looking for understanding on what you posted but it seems in your mind you have this victim complex that everyone is out to get you.  That I would say is your own projection.  There is nothing from my post that makes any assumption as to who you are since I only respond to the nature of your post.  I have no clue about you personally since I do not know you.

Yeah, I put the sucks to be you based on the content of your last paragraph and the funny part is, it was a joke.  Notice how you responded to that joke and how easy it is to misinterpret a joke when its text from someone you do not know.  It appears you also from that line jumped to a lot of assumptions based on that simple joke and probably did not see it as a joke either.  In my mind it was a simple joke, I am guessing it was not so much to you.

I do not care who you are, how you think or any of that.  As a mod, I only care if you follow the rules of the site.  I do not care if I agree with any statements you make or none at all you are cool with me but if I see conduct that appears to be getting close or crosses the rules of the site, I rather direct a person to that instead of banning.  You can dismiss with the victim mentality with me because if I am responding to you as a mod, there will be no doubt in your mind the difference.  Currently I only look at this as mild conversation on a topic.

As to your last paragraph, that is exactly what I am telling you.  I do not moderate on feelings, guessing what the meaning is from text, trying to figure out who you are all that BS.  I only care if you follow the rules of the forum.  If your joke crosses a line, I will ban you no matter if you are joking or not.  See how that works, there is no feelings that I need to have.  I do not have to sit here and interpret what you meaning is. If you say something that I believe comes close to breaking the rules of the site, I will let you know.  After that I will ban you because I will be very specific what I believe crosses the line.  You will never not understand what I feel crosses the line because I will tell you first and there will be no ambiguity on the subject.

So once again, I don't know what I'm saying or what it means and don't understand myself. Ok then.

I'd say something similar about my questions, but I'd be wrong since they're mostly sealioning I guess, so why bother. Ok then.

How do you know my reply to your, sucks to be you thought, wasn't a joke about your joke? Would you have picked that up? Ok then.

Good to know you weren't concerned about what, exactly, is or isn't bombshell news as per certain outlets. Ok then.

As long as you gave fair warning and took some time to understand the context then that seems fair. That doesn't seem to be the case about how you started the explanation as to banning a joke that crosses the line even if it's not a joke. That you wouldn't have to interpret it as meant and could just ban. That would imply lacking context, intent, or simply not caring. Seems like a poor way of conducting oneself if a mod were to choose that route I'd say.

The most recent joke nonsense is enough for me for now. How serious am I supposed to take you going forward not knowing if you're serious or joking? Can I rely on you to let me know for sure immediately after the joke, or find out after a ban? Maybe I'm still not being selective enough as to my replies.

I have no clue what you are saying either, I guess that goes for the both of us.

Depends on how you ask the question and if it pertains to the topic

Doesn't matter, it was a joke either you got it or you did not, that was still the point.

Incorrect, I asked you what news org used that phrased concerning this topic.  As stated, I have followed all the MSM and none of them used that term.  

I want you to understand, if you follow the rules you are fine with me no matter the content or context.  IF you go against the rule, I care little if its a joke, you were drunk, your dog died you name it.  Its up to you to decided on whatever you say should be said, not for me to have to determine context or intent. This way you always will know how I go about my mod duties.  I do not put any feelings into it, I am not concerned if your feelings are hurt.  I am not concerned if you feel the victim.  I am not going to go into debate about your intent or try to interpret what you meant.  If it crosses the line then I do not care.  I do not care if you like the way I mod, that is for the mod team to decide. I am not doing this mod job to please you or get your approval.  As stated, if you follow the rules you are good and you would never have to worry about me.

I am a very rules oriented person.  The rules gives scope to discussions and what this site will tolerate.  

Think about it this way, doesn't matter if you believe I am serious or joking, I will always stay within the confines of the rules for the site, I suggest you do so as well.  Personally you can take my statements however you want, if your viewpoint is incorrect I will tell you.  Why would I care how you perceive my statements since I do not know how you think, it would be a waste of time.