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Is free speech suppressed on the internet's main public squares

Yes 56 53.85%
 
No 44 42.31%
 
Undecided 4 3.85%
 
Total:104
the-pi-guy said:
zero129 said:

They are doing what they are saying they are fighting against and thats racism.

When we talk about "racism", there are two different kinds.

There's prejudice based on skin color, which is probably what most people think about when talking about racism. 

Then there's systemic racism, which is the more academic definition of racism, and it's the one that more left wingers are talking about, when they talk about racism. Systemic racism is prejudice with power. The vast majority of rich people are white, the vast majority of presidents and politicians in the US are white.

The big reason why racism is a big issue isn't so much because of the prejudice, but because there's a power dynamic. And yeah I get it, it's hard to talk about something abstract like racial power differences. But we can see that in statistics. 

We can see that black people are more likely to get arrested for drug use, even if their drug use isn't any different from white people. We can see that white people are again, more likely to be in positions of power (politicians, billionaires, millionaires). We can see that black people are more likely to be falsely in jail, they're less likely to get out early. Etc. Etc.

Im not sure how it is in the US but here in Ireland im pretty sure we dont really have that problem. In fact the irish was on the thick end of racism for years and being from the traveling community even more so. But when i see Celebs saying how all white = evil i just find that very annoying as its painting everyone with the same brush and i believe the is better ways to deal with racism then that.



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zero129 said:
the-pi-guy said:

When we talk about "racism", there are two different kinds.

There's prejudice based on skin color, which is probably what most people think about when talking about racism. 

Then there's systemic racism, which is the more academic definition of racism, and it's the one that more left wingers are talking about, when they talk about racism. Systemic racism is prejudice with power. The vast majority of rich people are white, the vast majority of presidents and politicians in the US are white.

The big reason why racism is a big issue isn't so much because of the prejudice, but because there's a power dynamic. And yeah I get it, it's hard to talk about something abstract like racial power differences. But we can see that in statistics. 

We can see that black people are more likely to get arrested for drug use, even if their drug use isn't any different from white people. We can see that white people are again, more likely to be in positions of power (politicians, billionaires, millionaires). We can see that black people are more likely to be falsely in jail, they're less likely to get out early. Etc. Etc.

Im not sure how it is in the US but here in Ireland im pretty sure we dont really have that problem. In fact the irish was on the thick end of racism for years and being from the traveling community even more so. But when i see Celebs saying how all white = evil i just find that very annoying as its painting everyone with the same brush and i believe the is better ways to deal with racism then that.

I do not know to much about Ireland but I am believing that you do not have the same history as the US when it comes to different races.  From Slavery, to immigrants, to Native Americans.  There are so much difference I believe in how the US has matured over the years and in some respect not.  Trying to apply what has happen within Ireland compared to the US probably really would not work as the history of the 2 countries are totally different.



Machiavellian said:
zero129 said:

Im not sure how it is in the US but here in Ireland im pretty sure we dont really have that problem. In fact the irish was on the thick end of racism for years and being from the traveling community even more so. But when i see Celebs saying how all white = evil i just find that very annoying as its painting everyone with the same brush and i believe the is better ways to deal with racism then that.

I do not know to much about Ireland but I am believing that you do not have the same history as the US when it comes to different races.  From Slavery, to immigrants, to Native Americans.  There are so much difference I believe in how the US has matured over the years and in some respect not.  Trying to apply what has happen within Ireland compared to the US probably really would not work as the history of the 2 countries are totally different.

Well you know the irish where enslaved by the British empire and it killed more then half the irish pop with famine making most move to places like America to try seek a better life etc.

So your right being the irish never had slaves themself but they where enslaved and slaughtered in massive numbers they had to immigrate to places like America . But nowdays most (Like pretty much the whole population except for a small few) still dont blame or hold grudges against my english brothers and sisters.

This is in no way me saying how racism doesnt exist today as i know it does being a Traveler/Gypsy i been on the end of racism myself. But painting a whole race of people as evil and blaming them for all the wrongs done imo sure isnt the way to go about it. Even more so when its celebs with massive platforms thats doing it. 

For me it would be like huge irish celebs saying how all the English are evil for what happened years ago, i would just think thats wrong as they didnt have a say or most likely was even born.

To get to the bottom of racism tackle the issue, go after the business's that still allow racist work conditions and things like that but dont paint a whole race as evil. 

I dont know thats just my opinion on it.



zero129 said:
Machiavellian said:

I do not know to much about Ireland but I am believing that you do not have the same history as the US when it comes to different races.  From Slavery, to immigrants, to Native Americans.  There are so much difference I believe in how the US has matured over the years and in some respect not.  Trying to apply what has happen within Ireland compared to the US probably really would not work as the history of the 2 countries are totally different.

Well you know the irish where enslaved by the British empire and it killed more then half the irish pop with famine making most move to places like America to try seek a better life etc.

So your right being the irish never had slaves themself but they where enslaved and slaughtered in massive numbers they had to immigrate to places like America . But nowdays most (Like pretty much the whole population except for a small few) still dont blame or hold grudges against my english brothers and sisters.

This is in no way me saying how racism doesnt exist today as i know it does being a Traveler/Gypsy i been on the end of racism myself. But painting a whole race of people as evil and blaming them for all the wrongs done imo sure isnt the way to go about it. Even more so when its celebs with massive platforms thats doing it. 

For me it would be like huge irish celebs saying how all the English are evil for what happened years ago, i would just think thats wrong as they didnt have a say or most likely was even born.

To get to the bottom of racism tackle the issue, go after the business's that still allow racist work conditions and things like that but dont paint a whole race as evil. 

I dont know thats just my opinion on it.

You basically just stated it, some still do hold grudges.  Actually, I remember quite a few Irish terrorist back in the day and I am sure there are still some people today that still believe that the British are evil.

One person terrorist is another person freedom fighter, it's all about perspective.  So yes, there are some people who still hold grudges but that's because some people are still living with prejudice, discrimination and hatred within America.  It would be hard to see the side of someone who still have bitter thoughts unless you walked within their shoes.  This is not me condoning such thoughts but its just classic in how Humans operate.

Let me ask you this question, have you ever been pulled over by a police officer because of the color of your skin.  I know plenty of black people that experience this every day.  I know one couple whose husband is pulled over on a regular because he is black and live in a predominate white neighborhood.  When you do not have to live with such discrimination, it's very hard to understand how it feels and how it affects you.

The thing is, Americans have been painting people with broad strokes for decades.  Hell we have new terms like Woke or Maga.  Blacks, Asian, Native Americans have been painted with broad strokes for decades in the US.  From the outside looking in, you can only really compare to what you have experience but because of that experience it limits you to the complexity of how things work within the US.

Take a stroll through the social network Gab to get a good feel of real racial hate.  Your solo Celeb is probably tame to the stuff that goes on in that place.



Machiavellian said:
zero129 said:

Well you know the irish where enslaved by the British empire and it killed more then half the irish pop with famine making most move to places like America to try seek a better life etc.

So your right being the irish never had slaves themself but they where enslaved and slaughtered in massive numbers they had to immigrate to places like America . But nowdays most (Like pretty much the whole population except for a small few) still dont blame or hold grudges against my english brothers and sisters.

This is in no way me saying how racism doesnt exist today as i know it does being a Traveler/Gypsy i been on the end of racism myself. But painting a whole race of people as evil and blaming them for all the wrongs done imo sure isnt the way to go about it. Even more so when its celebs with massive platforms thats doing it. 

For me it would be like huge irish celebs saying how all the English are evil for what happened years ago, i would just think thats wrong as they didnt have a say or most likely was even born.

To get to the bottom of racism tackle the issue, go after the business's that still allow racist work conditions and things like that but dont paint a whole race as evil. 

I dont know thats just my opinion on it.

You basically just stated it, some still do hold grudges.  Actually, I remember quite a few Irish terrorist back in the day and I am sure there are still some people today that still believe that the British are evil.

One person terrorist is another person freedom fighter, it's all about perspective.  So yes, there are some people who still hold grudges but that's because some people are still living with prejudice, discrimination and hatred within America.  It would be hard to see the side of someone who still have bitter thoughts unless you walked within their shoes.  This is not me condoning such thoughts but its just classic in how Humans operate.

Let me ask you this question, have you ever been pulled over by a police officer because of the color of your skin.  I know plenty of black people that experience this every day.  I know one couple whose husband is pulled over on a regular because he is black and live in a predominate white neighborhood.  When you do not have to live with such discrimination, it's very hard to understand how it feels and how it affects you.

The thing is, Americans have been painting people with broad strokes for decades.  Hell we have new terms like Woke or Maga.  Blacks, Asian, Native Americans have been painted with broad strokes for decades in the US.  From the outside looking in, you can only really compare to what you have experience but because of that experience it limits you to the complexity of how things work within the US.

Take a stroll through the social network Gab to get a good feel of real racial hate.  Your solo Celeb is probably tame to the stuff that goes on in that place.

1. Some will always hold grudges but that in no way gives them rights to blame a whole race of people for their problems years after the fact. Even more so when the main people you see doing this "Are Rich" people who are pretty much just jumping on to a bandwagon.

2. Yes i have been pulled over by the garda/police and treated different/worse than a settled person since im from a traveler/gypsy backgound and some of them think of us as free scanting hicks who are out to rob everyone and just likes to live on social welfare.

I dont blame a bunch of cops for that or every settled person i just blame "Them" cops who done itas they dont equal everyone.

3. Thats the problem and the point im trying to make. The longer people keep painting everyone the same the more harder it is to make the problem go away.



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zero129 said:
Machiavellian said:

You basically just stated it, some still do hold grudges.  Actually, I remember quite a few Irish terrorist back in the day and I am sure there are still some people today that still believe that the British are evil.

One person terrorist is another person freedom fighter, it's all about perspective.  So yes, there are some people who still hold grudges but that's because some people are still living with prejudice, discrimination and hatred within America.  It would be hard to see the side of someone who still have bitter thoughts unless you walked within their shoes.  This is not me condoning such thoughts but its just classic in how Humans operate.

Let me ask you this question, have you ever been pulled over by a police officer because of the color of your skin.  I know plenty of black people that experience this every day.  I know one couple whose husband is pulled over on a regular because he is black and live in a predominate white neighborhood.  When you do not have to live with such discrimination, it's very hard to understand how it feels and how it affects you.

The thing is, Americans have been painting people with broad strokes for decades.  Hell we have new terms like Woke or Maga.  Blacks, Asian, Native Americans have been painted with broad strokes for decades in the US.  From the outside looking in, you can only really compare to what you have experience but because of that experience it limits you to the complexity of how things work within the US.

Take a stroll through the social network Gab to get a good feel of real racial hate.  Your solo Celeb is probably tame to the stuff that goes on in that place.

1. Some will always hold grudges but that in no way gives them rights to blame a whole race of people for their problems years after the fact. Even more so when the main people you see doing this "Are Rich" people who are pretty much just jumping on to a bandwagon.

2. Yes i have been pulled over by the garda/police and treated different/worse than a settled person since im from a traveler/gypsy backgound and some of them think of us as free scanting hicks who are out to rob everyone and just likes to live on social welfare.

I dont blame a bunch of cops for that or every settled person i just blame "Them" cops who done itas they dont equal everyone.

3. Thats the problem and the point im trying to make. The longer people keep painting everyone the same the more harder it is to make the problem go away.

Its not about giving anyone a right to do anything, because you cannot give that right or take it away.  A person that holds a grudge for whatever reason will do so because as humans that is what we do.  Whether it's blaming a whole race, or gender or sexual orientation, this is what humans do because we see this example every day.  

So how does that make you feel.  Its one thing to have it done once and a blue moon, its another to deal with it on a daily basics.  The thing is, how do people deal with such situations because everyone is not going to react the same way.  My point is that you seem to only view a situation on how you will react but that's not how it really works because everyone is different and come from different backgrounds and environments.  Everyone usually believes how they react to a situation is the correct response, that is why you can have so many different responses to just about every scenario.

I understand the point you are trying to make but your fix to that problem isn't going to happen anytime soon because the problem you present is nothing new.  Its not like we all woke up today and started to believe that if only we stop being prejudice, discriminatory, angry, fearful etc all the problems would just go away.  What I am saying is that it really does not matter if it's some Celeb or the person down the street.  They are all just human, it being a Celeb means nothing as if that status makes that person any better than the person you meet by chance.  Social media just helps to bring out opinions you would never know someone holds within themselves because now their opinion can reach millions in seconds.  That is why I say go to Gab and you will see such hate on the regular.  The problem is as old as time itself and the solution to that also is as old.  The complexity is how do you implement the solution because for as many people who believe "Stop painting everyone with broad Strokes", there are just as many who are happy to do exactly that.

So my main point is that it seems you are focused that a Celeb has said some hateful stuff but I am saying there are millions saying hateful stuff everyday.  Just because its some Celeb is of little consequence in the light of how many unknown people who view and say such things on a daily basis.  The only difference between a Celeb and your regular Joe is public fallout.



Machiavellian said:
zero129 said:

1. Some will always hold grudges but that in no way gives them rights to blame a whole race of people for their problems years after the fact. Even more so when the main people you see doing this "Are Rich" people who are pretty much just jumping on to a bandwagon.

2. Yes i have been pulled over by the garda/police and treated different/worse than a settled person since im from a traveler/gypsy backgound and some of them think of us as free scanting hicks who are out to rob everyone and just likes to live on social welfare.

I dont blame a bunch of cops for that or every settled person i just blame "Them" cops who done itas they dont equal everyone.

3. Thats the problem and the point im trying to make. The longer people keep painting everyone the same the more harder it is to make the problem go away.

Its not about giving anyone a right to do anything, because you cannot give that right or take it away.  A person that holds a grudge for whatever reason will do so because as humans that is what we do.  Whether it's blaming a whole race, or gender or sexual orientation, this is what humans do because we see this example every day.  

So how does that make you feel.  Its one thing to have it done once and a blue moon, its another to deal with it on a daily basics.  The thing is, how do people deal with such situations because everyone is not going to react the same way.  My point is that you seem to only view a situation on how you will react but that's not how it really works because everyone is different and come from different backgrounds and environments.  Everyone usually believes how they react to a situation is the correct response, that is why you can have so many different responses to just about every scenario.

I understand the point you are trying to make but your fix to that problem isn't going to happen anytime soon because the problem you present is nothing new.  Its not like we all woke up today and started to believe that if only we stop being prejudice, discriminatory, angry, fearful etc all the problems would just go away.  What I am saying is that it really does not matter if it's some Celeb or the person down the street.  They are all just human, it being a Celeb means nothing as if that status makes that person any better than the person you meet by chance.  Social media just helps to bring out opinions you would never know someone holds within themselves because now their opinion can reach millions in seconds.  That is why I say go to Gab and you will see such hate on the regular.  The problem is as old as time itself and the solution to that also is as old.  The complexity is how do you implement the solution because for as many people who believe "Stop painting everyone with broad Strokes", there are just as many who are happy to do exactly that.

So my main point is that it seems you are focused that a Celeb has said some hateful stuff but I am saying there are millions saying hateful stuff everyday.  Just because its some Celeb is of little consequence in the light of how many unknown people who view and say such things on a daily basis.  The only difference between a Celeb and your regular Joe is public fallout.

I feel like we have and are still agreeing on the first point. People will always hold grudges but imo that doesnt make them right. The IRA wouldnt be right to go around slandering or bombing english innocent people today over things that happened years ago just like they wasnt right to do that in the first place.

I never said it was only once. Its clear your not from Ireland or England as if you where you would know that over here travelers/Gypsys are every bit if not more prosecuted then any black person or other colour person. Its a Sigma that we are a bunch of free loaders who only want to live off social welfare look for trouble and rob people. That mind frame is embedded into people over here but i dont blame all the people for the racist shit i had to put up with as i still know not everyone thinks like that and i wouldnt blame a whole group for the short comings of a few who dont want to understand any better then they where told.

And its not just one celeb its lots of celebs that have massive platforms that could easy be preaching proper messages of unity and holding the companys who still pay shitty to colourd people etc for account but instead like to say stuff like how "All whites are the devil" "White people are animals" etc etc. As if they in their high privlege levels are the ones who had to deal with it?. I know for a fact if it was a white celeb saying that about any other group than themselfs they would be canceled from every tv show and platform we have. But as long as they only be racist towards white people it seems to be ok.



zero129 said:

Well you know the irish where enslaved by the British empire and it killed more then half the irish pop with famine making most move to places like America to try seek a better life etc.

So your right being the irish never had slaves themself but they where enslaved and slaughtered in massive numbers they had to immigrate to places like America . But nowdays most (Like pretty much the whole population except for a small few) still dont blame or hold grudges against my english brothers and sisters.

This is in no way me saying how racism doesnt exist today as i know it does being a Traveler/Gypsy i been on the end of racism myself. But painting a whole race of people as evil and blaming them for all the wrongs done imo sure isnt the way to go about it. Even more so when its celebs with massive platforms thats doing it. 

For me it would be like huge irish celebs saying how all the English are evil for what happened years ago, i would just think thats wrong as they didnt have a say or most likely was even born.

To get to the bottom of racism tackle the issue, go after the business's that still allow racist work conditions and things like that but dont paint a whole race as evil. 

I dont know thats just my opinion on it.

Irish slavery wasn't anything like African slavery in the Americas for a number of reasons. 

The issue isn't stuff that happened decades/centuries ago. The issue is that every white person has benefitted from all kinds of tragedies, and we need to accept that. Americans live where they do, in large part because of genocide and other general mistreatment. Africa supplied North America with owned people that were horribly mistreated as property, Africa supplied Europe with supplies. 

A lot of America/Europe's wealth and Africa's lack of wealth can generally be traced back to stuff decades ago.

Besides that, there are still a lot of issues today.

zero129 said:

I dont blame a bunch of cops for that or every settled person i just blame "Them" cops who done itas they dont equal everyone.

3. Thats the problem and the point im trying to make. The longer people keep painting everyone the same the more harder it is to make the problem go away.

Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away.

Calling out a problem, spreading awareness can, even if some people feel the need to get offended.



the-pi-guy said:
zero129 said:

Well you know the irish where enslaved by the British empire and it killed more then half the irish pop with famine making most move to places like America to try seek a better life etc.

So your right being the irish never had slaves themself but they where enslaved and slaughtered in massive numbers they had to immigrate to places like America . But nowdays most (Like pretty much the whole population except for a small few) still dont blame or hold grudges against my english brothers and sisters.

This is in no way me saying how racism doesnt exist today as i know it does being a Traveler/Gypsy i been on the end of racism myself. But painting a whole race of people as evil and blaming them for all the wrongs done imo sure isnt the way to go about it. Even more so when its celebs with massive platforms thats doing it. 

For me it would be like huge irish celebs saying how all the English are evil for what happened years ago, i would just think thats wrong as they didnt have a say or most likely was even born.

To get to the bottom of racism tackle the issue, go after the business's that still allow racist work conditions and things like that but dont paint a whole race as evil. 

I dont know thats just my opinion on it.

Irish slavery wasn't anything like African slavery in the Americas for a number of reasons. 

The issue isn't stuff that happened decades/centuries ago. The issue is that every white person has benefitted from all kinds of tragedies, and we need to accept that. Americans live where they do, in large part because of genocide and other general mistreatment. Africa supplied North America with owned people that were horribly mistreated as property, Africa supplied Europe with supplies. 

A lot of America/Europe's wealth and Africa's lack of wealth can generally be traced back to stuff decades ago.

Besides that, there are still a lot of issues today.

zero129 said:

I dont blame a bunch of cops for that or every settled person i just blame "Them" cops who done itas they dont equal everyone.

3. Thats the problem and the point im trying to make. The longer people keep painting everyone the same the more harder it is to make the problem go away.

Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away.

Calling out a problem, spreading awareness can, even if some people feel the need to get offended.

1. I honestly feel insulted by this post. Care to explain how millions of people and kids dying from starvation and having to leave their homes etc isnt the same why?.

2. Explain how did me or my kids or anyone else in "Ireland" benefit from slavery or stuff that happened years ago?. Clearly it "Is" from stuff that happened years ago as its clear that stuff isnt going on today and if it is its not a world wide thing and doesnt only include "White" people. I am sorry if i dont feel like saying sorry for something i had no part in. Just like i dont expect everyone who was racist towards my community of people in the traveling/gypsy community to apologize for stuff they didnt do to us.

Go after the places this stuff still exist but dont paint a whole group of people with the same brush as thats just silly.

As mods you should know how it is to generalize a whole group of people based on a few bad eggs.



zero129 said:

1. I honestly feel insulted by this post. Care to explain how millions of people and kids dying from starvation and having to leave their homes etc isnt the same why?.

2. Explain how did me or my kids or anyone else in "Ireland" benefit from slavery or stuff that happened years ago?. Clearly it "Is" from stuff that happened years ago as its clear that stuff isnt going on today and if it is its not a world wide thing and doesnt only include "White" people. I am sorry if i dont feel like saying sorry for something i had no part in. Just like i dont expect everyone who was racist towards my community of people in the traveling/gypsy community to apologize for stuff they didnt do to us.

Go after the places this stuff still exist but dont paint a whole group of people with the same brush as thats just silly.

3.) As mods you should know how it is to generalize a whole group of people based on a few bad eggs.

1.) I'm hoping that you can inform me on your conflating slavery with famine.

Some of my family members came over here because of the Potato famine, but I'm not as familiar with it, as I am with American slavery. And I doubt that you are as familiar with American slavery as you are with the potato famines.

2.) Can I give an example here. I benefit from infrastructure here in the US, most of which is older than I am. The university I went to was 150 years old. That is far older than me, or my parents, or my grandparents, or my great grandparents, and probably my great great parents. I still benefit from decades of infrastructure. I benefited from roads that were built over decades, I benefited from hills that were flattened, the trees that were cut down to be able to put those roads down. I benefited from the materials that were imported, and perhaps even using slave labor for the university and the roads over decades or maybe longer. My primary education was funded by property taxes, which is based off values of houses and properties many of which are hundreds of years old.

I get it, it's abstract, it's distant, it's way before any of us were alive. But we benefit from things, indirectly too. Sometimes even second hand or third hand or 100th hand.

3.)  It's not generalizing a whole group based on a few bad eggs. It is me recognizing that I don't live in a vacuum. As a white male, I get a lot of benefits, and surely some downsides.