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Forums - Politics Discussion - A reactionary post, I guess.

sundin13 said:
Jaicee said:

*sighs*

You know better than this. Both Trudeau and you are being more than a little disingenuous. What he, and you, are attempting to do is paint the many millions of Canadians and Quebecers who have supported this movement as literal fucking Nazis for opposing the indefinite continuation of Covid restrictions. It's retarded and you know it. It's even more retarded that you actually buy into Trudeau's suggestion that people like the Jewish descendants of Holocaust survivors, the grandchildren of WW2 veterans who died fighting the actual German Nazis during World War II, etc. etc. are Nazis because they're...the ones calling for more personal freedoms here and opposing the transformation of Canada into something very much akin to a police state.

You know why you have to do that? You know why you and the rest of the left have to idiotically resort to painting everyone who disagrees with you on anything as a neo-Nazi? Because you can't actually defend your positions on the merits.

I reciprocate your sighs.

First of all, I just want to say that the ableist slurs are entirely unnecessary. 

Beyond that, I find it funny that you complain about me being unable to defend my position on its merits while simultaneously ignoring virtually everything I said (yet still trying to stuff as many words into my mouth as you can fit). 

I very much agree that Trudeau's statement is fairly reductive and unhelpful, however, in the strictest sense of the word, it is accurate. To say someone is standing with Nazi's is not saying that they are Nazis. That is your own words and biases interpreting Trudeau objectively incorrectly.

In my opinion, there is very much a legitimate conversation to be had regarding the close ties between the convoy and the extremist actions, views and groups. There should be a point in which the whole thing becomes tainted, and refusing to even have that conversation, in my opinion, enables extremism. 

"there is very much a legitimate conversation to be had regarding the close ties between the convoy and the extremist actions." What would, within the confines of what has been a completely peaceful protest, also known as objective reality, be the ties that you consider to be most closely associated to extremist actions?



- "If you have the heart of a true winner, you can always get more pissed off than some other asshole."

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Glancing over this thread... yes the framing of ordinary citizens and working class as Nazis continues. Lockdowns have been the largest theft of wealth from the middle and working class in the history of this century exceeding the financial crisis 2008 by far. Basic civil rights are now privileges on top of that. The Patriot Act was pocket change compared to the new regulations and executive orders in place.

Another change of settled science just so habbened. The leading computer virologist in the world announced that "sadly" Covid itself, in particular the Omicron variant, "which is a type of vaccine" [natural immunity was a conspiracy just some months ago] has done a better job getting out and create immunity. (Reminder the vaxxes failed their phase III clinical trials because they raised all-cause mortality for healthy people under 70).

Last edited by numberwang - on 18 February 2022

COKTOE said:
sundin13 said:

I reciprocate your sighs.

First of all, I just want to say that the ableist slurs are entirely unnecessary. 

Beyond that, I find it funny that you complain about me being unable to defend my position on its merits while simultaneously ignoring virtually everything I said (yet still trying to stuff as many words into my mouth as you can fit). 

I very much agree that Trudeau's statement is fairly reductive and unhelpful, however, in the strictest sense of the word, it is accurate. To say someone is standing with Nazi's is not saying that they are Nazis. That is your own words and biases interpreting Trudeau objectively incorrectly.

In my opinion, there is very much a legitimate conversation to be had regarding the close ties between the convoy and the extremist actions, views and groups. There should be a point in which the whole thing becomes tainted, and refusing to even have that conversation, in my opinion, enables extremism. 

"there is very much a legitimate conversation to be had regarding the close ties between the convoy and the extremist actions." What would, within the confines of what has been a completely peaceful protest, also known as objective reality, be the ties that you consider to be most closely associated to extremist actions?

In regards to Extremist actions, I am referring to the hundreds of reports of hate crimes that have come in to the Ottawa Police as well as the general harassment and intimidation which seems to be fairly common within the convoy.



COKTOE said:

I think I kinda love you. It's not like when I fell in love with onionberry, and wished every morning that I could wake up with her avatar on the pillow next to me. It's even more shallow than that. I love your brain. I can't even...as a life-long leftist, with how disgusting the left has become. The left now, in totality, is worse than the post 9/11 right. An AMAZING, and well earned distinction. I was politically homeless for a good while, but have now started seeing more value in right wing talking points. And considering the vile things the right has been tied to in my lifetime, it's a transition that makes me go cross-eyed every time I take a moment to dwell on it. I guess I'm now, gun to my head, center-right, if an alien race demanded I define my leanings on threat of global destruction. Of course, there's much more to this than left v right, and I'm not looking at right wing politicians as saviors. Right wing voices have consistently been more sane than their left counterpoints for a a while now, but those in power, who claim to represent either side, are almost completely untrustworthy.

- Tyron Bibbons, ESQ

Goodbye forever until I log in again.

*snickers*

Um, thanks.

Ain't seen ya in a while, but always enjoy getting to hear from you! Glad you found something thoughtful and inspiring in my post.

I don't really and truly know what the hell I am politically these days. The American right subscribes broadly to meritocracy theory and the American left to critical race theory and I just don't buy into either, so yeah. Guess I'm just me really. And I know what you mean when you say you feel politically homeless. So do I.

I consider it kind of pathetic that Fox News is now my favorite of the cable news channels because they're not exactly that honest. But they're often more honest and frankly interesting anymore than the wannabe state media that is the other options. Fun fact: Back when Trump was president, I like MSNBC the best. Guess part of me just finds the sharpest critiques of those in power to be the most compelling.



Thread breaking post deleted. If you wish to post tweets in threads, please follow the correct protocol. 

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/edit-post.php?id=9361453

Last edited by axumblade - on 21 February 2022

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I consider this the ultimate concession on the issue Stateside: The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee's (DCCC's for short) internal analysis recommends that Democratic Congressional candidates drop their support for mask requirements, among other things. That is the voice of institutional Democratic Party itself now saying this.

Matter-of-factly, I'd say the DCCC's assessment of the current political situation in this country as a whole strikes me as overall realistic and largely correct concerning the broad perception (which includes mine) that the Democrats today are preachy, judgmental, condescending assholes who need to get serious about law enforcement in general, both in our cities and on our southern border, and stop calling everyone concerned about those things (which is the vast majority of the population) racist bigots. But I also agree with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's contention referenced in the same linked article above that the party's failure to enact crucial economic campaign promises like the general contents of the Build Back Better Act are also a major issue that serves to help persuade the public that not only do the Democrats judge them, but also that, at the same time, they're not serious about offering that public the kind of help and support that they need amidst a rapidly rising cost of living and the erosion of all remaining Covid relief measures. I would bet anything that it says as much to about anyone else as it does to me that Covid relief has been allowed to expire sooner than Covid restrictions. That mentality needs to be put into full reverse immediately if the Democrats are to have any hope of salvaging their standing in the midterms: the party needs to project and prioritize empathy and aid over condemnation and lifestyle control.

(I stress the ongoing need to actually pass legislation because, well, you can't run on help you ain't provided. You're not going to convince people that the economy is great if their bank accounts are shrinking. That's just a fact. The Democrats shouldn't even attempt gaslighting the public about how great their economic conditions supposedly are, lest it simply reveal how out of touch they truly are. Rather, they need to tangibly act to improve those conditions in order to have an argument.)

Anyway, getting back to the main takeaway for our purposes here, the Democratic Party itself, the institution, is now coming out against indefinite compulsory masking.



TallSilhouette said:

Your spiel focuses on the law and order application of their hypocrisy, but more and more it seems to extend to being bound by facts, truth, or reality itself. It's how the majority of the party can either genuinely believe or performatively declare that Biden is not the legitimately elected president. If you haven't seen it yet, this video focuses primarily on conspiracy theorists but includes excellent commentary on reactionary and protofascistic politics in general. The ending in particular is bloody brilliant:

Actually, I think their increased belief in conspiracies stems from the same thing I was talking about. They're lashing out at authorities that they don't accept, because the authorities they do accept (e.g., GOP leaders, right-wing propagandists in the media, religious leaders) have told them that the experts are the enemy, i.e., and out-group. It's that same tribalistic groupthink.

The scientists aren't telling them what they want to hear. Instead, science disabuses them of their conceits and prejudices. It tells them that human activity is harming the environment we all live it. It tells them our resources are finite. It tells them that certain religious beliefs they have are wrong. It tells them that there's no scientific basis for their bigotry. And it tells them that they may have to, on occasion, make some minor changes to their behavior or do certain things for the sake of public health. Since they can't accept reality for what it is, they lash out at the experts. They'll believe the scientists are all in on some nefarious communist plot to harm them and destroy their way of life, because the experts are telling them they should do certain things or that certain things should probably be regulated or banned, and they don't want to be told what to do by some "elitist" that they don't trust.

With the pandemic, all it took was Donald Trump and a few conservative talking heads to plant the bug in their head that the pandemic wasn't a big deal to result in the U.S. having the worst per capita death toll of any developed nation, especially in the past eight months. And the death toll has had an increasing and extremely partisan element to it.

P.S.: I saw that video you posted a few weeks back. It was a good one.

P.P.S.: I know you didn't meant it that way, but "spiel" is actually an insulting term for someone's words.

Last edited by Shadow1980 - on 23 February 2022

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In accordance to the VGC forum rules, §8.5, I hereby exercise my right to demand to be left alone regarding the subject of the effects of the pandemic on video game sales (i.e., "COVID bump").

Jaicee said:

I consider this the ultimate concession on the issue Stateside: The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee's (DCCC's for short) internal analysis recommends that Democratic Congressional candidates drop their support for mask requirements, among other things. That is the voice of institutional Democratic Party itself now saying this.

Matter-of-factly, I'd say the DCCC's assessment of the current political situation in this country as a whole strikes me as overall realistic and largely correct concerning the broad perception (which includes mine) that the Democrats today are preachy, judgmental, condescending assholes who need to get serious about law enforcement in general, both in our cities and on our southern border, and stop calling everyone concerned about those things (which is the vast majority of the population) racist bigots. But I also agree with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's contention referenced in the same linked article above that the party's failure to enact crucial economic campaign promises like the general contents of the Build Back Better Act are also a major issue that serves to help persuade the public that not only do the Democrats judge them, but also that, at the same time, they're not serious about offering that public the kind of help and support that they need amidst a rapidly rising cost of living and the erosion of all remaining Covid relief measures. I would bet anything that it says as much to about anyone else as it does to me that Covid relief has been allowed to expire sooner than Covid restrictions. That mentality needs to be put into full reverse immediately if the Democrats are to have any hope of salvaging their standing in the midterms: the party needs to project and prioritize empathy and aid over condemnation and lifestyle control.

(I stress the ongoing need to actually pass legislation because, well, you can't run on help you ain't provided. You're not going to convince people that the economy is great if their bank accounts are shrinking. That's just a fact. The Democrats shouldn't even attempt gaslighting the public about how great their economic conditions supposedly are, lest it simply reveal how out of touch they truly are. Rather, they need to tangibly act to improve those conditions in order to have an argument.)

Anyway, getting back to the main takeaway for our purposes here, the Democratic Party itself, the institution, is now coming out against indefinite compulsory masking.

So the DCC want to drop mask support because it plays out better politically instead of scientific reasons.  I find this line of reasoning from you actually pretty bad.  Because of the inconvenience of wearing a mask, you are more concerned about lifting restrictions not because our heath systems, public and expert opinion that its now the time but instead because it plays better politically.



Machiavellian said:

So the DCC want to drop mask support because it plays out better politically instead of scientific reasons.  I find this line of reasoning from you actually pretty bad.  Because of the inconvenience of wearing a mask, you are more concerned about lifting restrictions not because our heath systems, public and expert opinion that its now the time but instead because it plays better politically.

As I've stated before here, the objective Covid situation is very much under control; the only question is when our political leaders would/will decide to acknowledge as much and relinquish the controls they'd imposed. The Covid situation itself indeed gets more under control every day now. According to the CDC, we're now averaging 75,000 new corona cases nationwide per day, which, as you can see in their chart, is the lowest we've seen since November 9th, i.e. well before the omicron surge and before the winter and also a drop of more than 90% from the peak average of 807,000 new cases per day set back on January 15th.  At this point, substantially more Americans are recovering from Covid daily than are being infected. Most of the new, softened masking rules that U.S. states have announced lately go into effect on March 1st, by which point we'll be in an even better situation yet, on top of which March will mark the onset of spring and, with it, warmer weather that will see people spending more time outdoors, thus serving to mitigate the spread further.

One's insistence that Covid restrictions be continued at this point isn't about following the science so much as it's about a phobic obsession with the idea of exorcising every single virus case there is, which just isn't realistic.

Last edited by Jaicee - on 24 February 2022

Jaicee said:
Machiavellian said:

So the DCC want to drop mask support because it plays out better politically instead of scientific reasons.  I find this line of reasoning from you actually pretty bad.  Because of the inconvenience of wearing a mask, you are more concerned about lifting restrictions not because our heath systems, public and expert opinion that its now the time but instead because it plays better politically.

As I've stated before here, the objective Covid situation is very much under control; the only question is when our political leaders would/will decide to acknowledge as much and relinquish the controls they'd imposed. The Covid situation itself indeed gets more under control every day now. According to the CDC, we're now averaging 75,000 new corona cases nationwide per day, which, as you can see in their chart, is the lowest we've seen since November 9th, i.e. well before the omicron surge and before the winter and also a drop of more than 90% from the peak average of 807,000 new cases per day set back on January 15th.  At this point, substantially more Americans are recovering from Covid daily than are being infected. Most of the new, softened masking rules that U.S. states have announced lately go into effect on March 1st, by which point we'll be in an even better situation yet, on top of which March will mark the onset of spring and, with it, warmer weather that will see people spending more time outdoors, thus serving to mitigate the spread further.

One's insistence that Covid restrictions be continued at this point isn't about following the science so much as it's about a phobic obsession with the idea of exorcising every single virus case there is, which just isn't realistic.

You did not get my point.  From the DCC its clearly stated in that link that they are making their decisions not because of the CDC or anything else but instead they are making their decisions because it play better politically.  If you wanted to use the CDC as the source for mask restrictions to be lifted then that would have been a better justification for your point then to use the DCC.  I have no problem with the lifting of any restrictions as long as we have did the work to make sure the proper time.  If using political talking points as the reason well that does not sit as well because that's how we got here in the first place.