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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Halo Infinite - Story Discussion - Unmarked Spoilers

Ryuu96 said:
Angelus said:

Btw, does anyone else think that the Endless might have some sort of connection to the logic plague? I mean...why would the Harbinger speak in a manner similar to the Gravemind? Why would the Forerunners judge and sentence them in a "silent" auditorium where the Endless are unable to even speak to defend themselves? They're so dangerous that the Forerunners have to gag them before they're even locked away? Idk. Just thought all that was kinda curious.

Does feel like we're missing something cause as it stands right now, it can't be argued, The Endless are the victims and Forerunners looks like utter bastards, Lol.

That's an interesting theory, do you think a Gravemind logic plagued The Endless?

I think it's possible. I also think it's possible that the Endless might have been able to learn how the logic plague works and use it to their own ends if so desired. 

I'm imagining the following scenario. The Forerunners and the Endless were friendly at some point, this we know, as the Endless trusted them right into a trap, and were completely blindsided. For the Endless to ALL be trapped in this manner (possibly with a few stragglers being taken care of elsewhere), I imagine that Zeta Halo must have been effectively made their home at some point prior to this. What if, when the Forerunners and Endless were allies, the Forerunners tasked the Endless with watching over their most important Halo installation, perhaps with good intentions at the time, under the reasoning that if the worst comes to pass, the Endless can use it, save the galaxy from the Flood, and normal life in the Galaxy can go on. While residing on the ring though, perhaps the Endless could have studied the flood, and learned things about their nature and how they operate (possibly aided in their research by their ability to manipulate time to some extent). Maybe they could learn a way of speech, speech pattern, or whatever combination of things that contribute to the logic plague. The Forerunners could then eventually get wind of this, and think "nah...fuck these guys...put em away forever" lol

Idk...just spinning the wheels.



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Also, I would definitely be in favor of a redesign for the Weapon. I like the idea of calling her Joy. She should have a little more casual outfit design I feel like. Obviously, she was deployed with the idea of being all business, then delete, but that's clearly out the window, and she's so not the type for a stiff uniform look. Matter of fact, I might take it a step further and also change up her color, to distinguish her even more from Cortana. Granted, 343 went out of their way to take Cortana back to her purple-ish look for Infinite, but everyone still is probably gonna always associate Cortana with blue. I'd maybe give the Weapon a kind of yellow or orange. I think that would better match her bubbly, radiant personality. 343 probably wouldn't actually change her that radically though.



Angelus said:

Also, I would definitely be in favor of a redesign for the Weapon. I like the idea of calling her Joy. She should have a little more casual outfit design I feel like. Obviously, she was deployed with the idea of being all business, then delete, but that's clearly out the window, and she's so not the type for a stiff uniform look. Matter of fact, I might take it a step further and also change up her color, to distinguish her even more from Cortana. Granted, 343 went out of their way to take Cortana back to her purple-ish look for Infinite, but everyone still is probably gonna always associate Cortana with blue. I'd maybe give the Weapon a kind of yellow or orange. I think that would better match her bubbly, radiant personality. 343 probably wouldn't actually change her that radically though.

Agreed. A redesign alongside her new name would absolutely make sense.



Ryuu96 said:
EricHiggin said:

I'd say Cortana highly likely had a thing for John. She wants to be real so badly and he's the most badass mofo in the universe. How couldn't she be attracted to that? I've always wondered if Cortana's design in Halo 4 was a hint to that. Trying not only to look more human and feminine, but to get John's undivided attention. I mean she's practically nude so...

As for John, at the very end of Halo 4 when Cortana is 'touching' him and getting mushy, he says, "Cortana, please". Just the way he says it implies to me, either:
1. John knows she feels something for him but he doesn't feel it for her.
or
2. John is either too scared to get emotional, or he's just so damn hardcore about his duty that he will just never break, period.
Not sure which one is more likely but regardless, Cortana seems disappointed about it. You can hear it in her voice, beyond this supposedly being the end for her.

She's a dreamer and he's a doer. For John he may just never wonder if a deep relationship with an AI is possible or if she could ever actually become a real life form. Doesn't really seem to fit his character. He does tend to keep to himself though, so, who knows?

The big problem is if they ever did get into a deep relationship, it would be damn near impossible to keep it strictly/mostly an action adventure scifi game, and would likely turn into a scifi adventure space drama. That's a very different experience, and Halo 4, which toyed with the idea, was not exactly well received at the time of release. Gamers didn't hate it overall, but they weren't thrilled overall either.

This is the canonical reason why Cortana is nude FWIW, Lol.

"She's not really nude ... but that's what it makes you think of," explained O'Connor. "So one of the reasons she [chooses to appear without clothes] is to attract and demand attention. And she does it to put people off so that they're on their guard when talking to her and she has the upper hand in those conversations."

I don't think her nudeness in Halo 4 at the time was anything other than marketing to horny people

I think that "Cortana. Please" was because she was speaking in a "This is the last we'll ever see each other" way and Chief was still in denial about being able to save her, Cortana had given up already at that point, hence Chief's "Cortana. Please"

Definitely they really really care about each other though, that much is obvious.

Angelus said:

Also, I would definitely be in favor of a redesign for the Weapon. I like the idea of calling her Joy. She should have a little more casual outfit design I feel like. Obviously, she was deployed with the idea of being all business, then delete, but that's clearly out the window, and she's so not the type for a stiff uniform look. Matter of fact, I might take it a step further and also change up her color, to distinguish her even more from Cortana. Granted, 343 went out of their way to take Cortana back to her purple-ish look for Infinite, but everyone still is probably gonna always associate Cortana with blue. I'd maybe give the Weapon a kind of yellow or orange. I think that would better match her bubbly, radiant personality. 343 probably wouldn't actually change her that radically though.

shikamaru317 said:
Ryuu96 said:

1. I wouldn't really mind a redesign, I do really like her current outfit though, as long as she doesn't go nude I'm happy cause nude wouldn't suit her personality at all, she could change it to something non-UNSC. I also hope she either names herself Hope (After Discover Hope theme) or Joy (after the 3rd sword).

2. I want to agree that they can't take back Zeta Halo alone but this is Chief we're talking about, Lol. Given Zeta Halo's current location, I'm not sure if a UNSC communications relay would even reach far enough, The Ark is surely the only way to find out where Zeta Halo is right now...? Chief the madman will probably blow Zeta Halo to pieces with all The Endless on it if he gets the chance, Lol.

3. Still racking my brains about Harbinger directly quoting Gravemind multiple times

4. In fairness, I think any AI would love to be able to touch something, especially someone they care about and especially an AI based on a human brain, must be hell not ever being able to feel anything.

1. Yeah, while it definitely seemed like she was going to name herself Cortana in honor of the original Cortana sacrificing herself to give Chief and Weapon a chance, I don't think they should go through with that, would give me Rey Skywalker vibes. Better to have her pick a new name for herself. 

2. Well, Chief is a miracle worker, but still, there are alot more banished on the full ring than there were on the tiny islands from the destroyed section of the ring in Infinite's main campaign. We're looking at something like 100x more banished on the rest of the ring than on the destroyed section most likely, plus now we have the Endless to contend with. Those are tough odds, even for Chief and some allies. 

I think he will use a Forerunner communications relay to contact them, either that or the UNSC will have been searching for Zeta Halo on their own, and Anders, who Cortana had captured in the post Halo Wars 2 cutscene, will be saved by either Blue Team or Alpha-Nine, and will lead them to the Ark, where they will discover the location of Zeta Halo and send reinforcements. 

That is one reason why I hope we get non-Chief expansions for Infinite as well as Chief expansions; 10 years is alot of time, we could get something like 5-7 expansions in that time possibly, depending on how big each one is. Give us an Alpha-Nine expansion where they go on a mission to save Anders from Cortana's Created, and then have Anders lead the UNSC and Arbiter's forces to the Ark. Then you could do an Arbiter team expansion where you wipe out the Banished left on the Ark with the help of the Halo Wars 2 characters and Blue Team and Alpha-Nine, and discover where Zeta Halo is using the Ark, and transport both armies to Zeta Halo using the Ark, just in time to save Chief and his allies on Zeta Halo. They could also do a Blue Team expansion showing us what the mission that Laskey sent Blue Team on was, from the audio log.

Meanwhile in the Chief expansions we could save Laskey, Halsey, Palmer, Locke and presumably the rest of Osiris if they were still with Locke, while introducing new biomes for the open world of Zeta Halo. Have Chief and his allies get overwhelmed at one point, only for the UNSC and Sangheili reinforcements to show up just in the nick of time and save them. Then either end it there as a setup for the next game, or do one final expansion to wrap up the Zeta Halo storyline, where you take down Atriox and the Endless.

3. It is curious for sure.

4. Could be, but the whole scene seemed romantic, maybe even a bit sexual, due to Cortana's heavily sexualized design in Halo 4. 

I assume it should read, 'it put's people off their mark so they're off their guard, giving her the upper hand?'

That would make sense when it comes to the mission. Though if there's more to it for her, like John, then she's killing two birds with one stone. 343 would be killing three birds since Cortana sure did make, rising to the occasion, of playing Halo 4, much easier.

You could be right about Chief simply being all business. When he's talking to Lasky and mentions the, 'being a machine' line, it shows how focused he truly is. As soon as Cortana said that to Chief it was like yup, she's got a point, yet it takes MC the rest of the game/mission to even realize it let alone contemplate it, which we never find out if he does in the game.

The Weapon makes sense as designed for Infinite. Next game she should be designed to be less uptight. Since nude is out of the question in today's world, lol, I'll accept a Lululemon type outfit. Please place the UNSC logo in the, appropriate, location..

As for color, green like Chief could symbolize unity between them. That could be too much of the same though and perhaps they want some contrast. Maybe the same color as Chiefs visor? She does live in his head does she not?

It seemed to me 343 intends on it being Cortana still, unless there's something we're missing. Instead of Cortana, maybe change it ever so slightly to Cortney? I know that doesn't follow the trend Bungie started but just an idea. I also like Joy. It's short, quick, and totally would work for Chief.

I think it would be pretty great if what 343 did was start infinite with Chief, then branch off and focus on other groups for the next few installments, then come back to him. Though there could always be some cross coms where you overhear some of what may be going on with Chief, or perhaps you cross paths here and there where you can choose to switch to Chief for that mission. Maybe you just get to assist Chief for a mission, so 343 can have him rip through enemies like there's no tomorrow, showing how much more capable he truly is against enemies vs whoever you are playing as. 

Perhaps they could go the Destiny route, where multiple players can play the missions, and you all get to choose who you want to be? Infinite has a slight Destiny vibe already, and they've got some Bungie folk back at 343, so I don't see that being highly unlikely. That way you can choose to play as Chief if you want and aren't forced to play as anyone else. Unless all your friends want to be Chief. Then I dunno. lol.

Last edited by EricHiggin - on 17 December 2021

Angelus said:
Ryuu96 said:

Does feel like we're missing something cause as it stands right now, it can't be argued, The Endless are the victims and Forerunners looks like utter bastards, Lol.

That's an interesting theory, do you think a Gravemind logic plagued The Endless?

I think it's possible. I also think it's possible that the Endless might have been able to learn how the logic plague works and use it to their own ends if so desired. 

I'm imagining the following scenario. The Forerunners and the Endless were friendly at some point, this we know, as the Endless trusted them right into a trap, and were completely blindsided. For the Endless to ALL be trapped in this manner (possibly with a few stragglers being taken care of elsewhere), I imagine that Zeta Halo must have been effectively made their home at some point prior to this. What if, when the Forerunners and Endless were allies, the Forerunners tasked the Endless with watching over their most important Halo installation, perhaps with good intentions at the time, under the reasoning that if the worst comes to pass, the Endless can use it, save the galaxy from the Flood, and normal life in the Galaxy can go on. While residing on the ring though, perhaps the Endless could have studied the flood, and learned things about their nature and how they operate (possibly aided in their research by their ability to manipulate time to some extent). Maybe they could learn a way of speech, speech pattern, or whatever combination of things that contribute to the logic plague. The Forerunners could then eventually get wind of this, and think "nah...fuck these guys...put em away forever" lol

Idk...just spinning the wheels.

Could be, as you said, there has to be a reason why she is straight up quoting the Gravemind.

So that dialogue about Zeta Halo arriving to the Endless homeworld and them trusting them happened after the firing of Halo, I know that, my question is, did the Forerunners know about the Endless before the firing of the Halo array? And if they did, why didn't they index them like every other species? Did they intend to kill them first time around and for what reason? Or did they only find them after they fired Halo? I either forgot or that question wasn't directly answered, all I know is they definitely didn't try to catalogue them so I assume they didn't know about them until after they fired Halo.

It's definitely possible that the Forerunners brought them onto Zeta Halo first and pretended to be friendly, at that point in time after the firing of Halo I don't think the Forerunners had huge numbers left so winning by trickery would be easier.

There's also the stone Halos which are claimed to be older than Forerunners which look exactly like Halo rings which Forerunners made, did the Endless make those stone rings? Maybe the Forerunners found those on their planet?

Maybe they did have good intentions at first, maybe even considering for the Endless to take the Mantle, though IIRC the remaining Forerunners decided it should be Humanity next.

Issue is, only Gravemind's are capable of logic plague and The Timeless One was killed before the activation of the Halo array I believe, to my knowledge, no other Gravemind was on Zeta Halo but maybe with time shenanigans from the Endless, they could have spoke to the Timeless One.



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It is entirely possible that the Forerunners locked the Endless up for no reason, other than being afraid of them but that isn't really a decent reason, it fits with the Forerunners who were always a controlling and arrogant species, so much so that they killed their own creators - Although there is conflicting accounts on why they did that, one side says they did it because they learnt of the Precursors plans to give Humanity the Mantle and became jealous, another side says that but Precursors would also plan to wipe Forerunners out after they gave Humanity the Mantle so Forerunners struck first.

But it sounds like ultimately one thing is true in this, Precursors had planned to give Humanity the Mantle because they believed Forerunners to be too arrogant and prideful, whether they also planned to wipe Forerunners out too is a bit tricky to say, we only have one side to the story, no living Precursors to tell us what actually happened and Forerunners tried to keep the war secret.

So Forerunners see a species that they can't control, that could ruin their entire legacy, that they can't kill, hell, I wonder if the Endless know the truth of what happened between Forerunners and Precursors too, also if I remember correctly, Forerunners (the remaining ones) in the end intended for Humanity to take the Mantle, so the Endless would screw those plans up too, so, they imprison them cause they're assholes.

But would 343 really make a villain that sympathetic? They're the victims in this scenario and the first thing when they wake up is a Human pointing a gun at their face, they also don't know the current Universe so them siding with The Banished who did free them is a bit understandable, then imagine when they find out that while they were imprisoned for nothing, the Forerunners gave Humanity a second chance, despite Humanity going to war with the Forerunners, Lol.





I saw something that if you beat it on legendary, a timestamp is made showing that Atriox did that jump (at the final cutscenes) like 100,000 years ago. If I understand correctly, that doesn't mean the Zeta Halo is currently in a different spot? I only beat it once (not on legendary) so this may be a noob question.



Dulfite said:

I saw something that if you beat it on legendary, a timestamp is made showing that Atriox did that jump (at the final cutscenes) like 100,000 years ago. If I understand correctly, that doesn't mean the Zeta Halo is currently in a different spot? I only beat it once (not on legendary) so this may be a noob question.

The timestamp is for the dialogue between the Forerunners, Atriox is in the present day.



Ryuu96 said:
Dulfite said:

I saw something that if you beat it on legendary, a timestamp is made showing that Atriox did that jump (at the final cutscenes) like 100,000 years ago. If I understand correctly, that doesn't mean the Zeta Halo is currently in a different spot? I only beat it once (not on legendary) so this may be a noob question.

The timestamp is for the dialogue between the Forerunners, Atriox is in the present day.

Is this confirmed? I read an entire article about how he did what he did in the past, not the present. Just want to make certain. The article suggested he was able to go to the past and move it, which suggests the Endless can time travel.