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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Dragon Quest composer Koichi Sugiyama has passed away at age 90.

twintail said:
Mnementh said:

I am fully aware of who he is and what he said. But that doesn't make a person celebrating the death of someone else suddenly a hero or something. That behaviour is still shitty, even if the person it is targeted at is a bad person. So be relieved or damn his deeds (as I did), but celebrating it is another thing.

The issue is that you created a false equivalence between the DQ composer and ppl who are happy he is dead, completely disregarding the massive gulf between what equates to 'bad' for both. In this post you attempt to dismiss the reactions of the latter, which only serves to validate Sugiyama's status as a good composer while ignoring his very bigoted views.

No one is trying to be a 'hero', they are just glad that a very horrible human being is no longer alive to continue spewing his war crime denialism and anti-lgbt agenda into public discourse. 

There’s bad, and there’s worst. Mnementh didn’t say people were as bad as Sugiyama, but celebrating someone’s death in the manner it’s being done by some people here is bad human behaviour. Worst, no. But you don’t become a good person simply by going with “not as bad as them”. Bad/wrong remains bad/wrong, even if there’s worse.

People here should be better than that.



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Hynad said:
twintail said:

The issue is that you created a false equivalence between the DQ composer and ppl who are happy he is dead, completely disregarding the massive gulf between what equates to 'bad' for both. In this post you attempt to dismiss the reactions of the latter, which only serves to validate Sugiyama's status as a good composer while ignoring his very bigoted views.

No one is trying to be a 'hero', they are just glad that a very horrible human being is no longer alive to continue spewing his war crime denialism and anti-lgbt agenda into public discourse. 

There’s bad, and there’s worst. Mnementh didn’t say people were as bad as Sugiyama, but celebrating someone’s death in the manner it’s being done by some people here is bad human behaviour. Worst, no. But you don’t become a good person simply by going with “not as bad as them”. Bad/wrong remains bad/wrong, even if there’s worse.

People here should be better than that.

Nah.

It was a bad take. They should own it, instead of coming up with arbitrary criticisms to justify their position. 



twintail said:
Hynad said:

There’s bad, and there’s worst. Mnementh didn’t say people were as bad as Sugiyama, but celebrating someone’s death in the manner it’s being done by some people here is bad human behaviour. Worst, no. But you don’t become a good person simply by going with “not as bad as them”. Bad/wrong remains bad/wrong, even if there’s worse.

People here should be better than that.

Nah.

It was a bad take. They should own it, instead of coming up with arbitrary criticisms to justify their position. 

Your take is equally bad.



A shame he didn't finish his work on DQXII (from the OP and the first few responses, I get it was going to be his last work?). Composing until 90 is impressive, may he rest in peace.



My bet with The_Liquid_Laser: I think the Switch won't surpass the PS2 as the best selling system of all time. If it does, I'll play a game of a list that The_Liquid_Laser will provide, I will have to play it for 50 hours or complete it, whatever comes first. 

No rest for the wicked. I never mourn a nazi.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

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twintail said:
Mnementh said:

I am fully aware of who he is and what he said. But that doesn't make a person celebrating the death of someone else suddenly a hero or something. That behaviour is still shitty, even if the person it is targeted at is a bad person. So be relieved or damn his deeds (as I did), but celebrating it is another thing.

The issue is that you created a false equivalence between the DQ composer and ppl who are happy he is dead, completely disregarding the massive gulf between what equates to 'bad' for both. In this post you attempt to dismiss the reactions of the latter, which only serves to validate Sugiyama's status as a good composer while ignoring his very bigoted views.

No one is trying to be a 'hero', they are just glad that a very horrible human being is no longer alive to continue spewing his war crime denialism and anti-lgbt agenda into public discourse. 

Nope, I don't ignore his bigoted views. But I am fully of the believe, that whatver a person did, they deserve basic human decency.

But if you cannot accept this, then think this way: there are people that loved him (there always are). What happens if someone googles the online reactions (as he created some art) and sees pictures of party and celebration. That is hurtful. So if people don't accept to treat him with some decency (which in itself is troubling), they should at least think of their effect on others.

That doesn't mean you cannot tell about the bad he did. He denied the war crimes at the Nanjing Massacre. He signed (with others) an ad that responded to the demand of US congress to the japanese government to issue an apology for the treatment of comfort women (basically sex slaves for japanese occupants). He made hurtful comments towards the LGBT community. All this can and should be told if recalling his legacy, as it is part of.

And that is quite possible without party pictures. So no, asking for some decency is not ignoring or apologizing for his bigoted views and not intended to silence voices that point that out. Please don't try to paint me as someone who does that.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [peak year] [+], [1], [2], [3], [4]

Amazing composer, he will be very missed.
I dont care about his political views, everyone is entitled to have their own and to be honest I admire he has the courage to speak out about his views. Maybe because it's easier for a person that is so old and (probably) successful financially to not care about cancel culture. Grown up people should be able to separate the art from the artist in case you dont agree with the artist personal life.
Now that he is dead there is a chance we will see pressure from groups to exclude his songs from the games, I hope not.



Xxain said:
CaptainExplosion said:

For the last time, (I doubt you read my PM), I didn't call for her to be raped, I just called her a whore, and despite my racism against Iranians I'm trying to be a better person. You're just too busy saying things like I wanna be inside my mom and slandering me to see that.

I would put racism right up there with Sugiyama's nonsense. Totally confused why you are acting high and mighty in this thread. As for the bold, if there is any reason that one would not notice you trying to be a better person its your childish and hypocrite behavior.

Now that I think about it, I think I recall you saying something low key racist in a thread you made about dark skin characters. Go work on your own self before you judge everybody else. 

I wouldn't judge others so much if they weren't always judging me for minor infractions I've made, and you ignored how Jumpin keeps slandering me AND the fact that he called me incestuous just for caring about my mother. How about taking a good long look at people BESIDES ME?

Leynos said:

No rest for the wicked. I never mourn a nazi.

Neither do I. Especially one who OPENLY LAUGHED AT THE SUICIDES OF MEMBERS OF THE LGBT COMMUNITY. Sceptic shock is a horrible way to die, which befits what a horrible man Sugiyama was in the end.



Mnementh said:
twintail said:

The issue is that you created a false equivalence between the DQ composer and ppl who are happy he is dead, completely disregarding the massive gulf between what equates to 'bad' for both. In this post you attempt to dismiss the reactions of the latter, which only serves to validate Sugiyama's status as a good composer while ignoring his very bigoted views.

No one is trying to be a 'hero', they are just glad that a very horrible human being is no longer alive to continue spewing his war crime denialism and anti-lgbt agenda into public discourse. 

Nope, I don't ignore his bigoted views. But I am fully of the believe, that whatver a person did, they deserve basic human decency.

But if you cannot accept this, then think this way: there are people that loved him (there always are). What happens if someone googles the online reactions (as he created some art) and sees pictures of party and celebration. That is hurtful. So if people don't accept to treat him with some decency (which in itself is troubling), they should at least think of their effect on others.

That doesn't mean you cannot tell about the bad he did. He denied the war crimes at the Nanjing Massacre. He signed (with others) an ad that responded to the demand of US congress to the japanese government to issue an apology for the treatment of comfort women (basically sex slaves for japanese occupants). He made hurtful comments towards the LGBT community. All this can and should be told if recalling his legacy, as it is part of.

And that is quite possible without party pictures. So no, asking for some decency is not ignoring or apologizing for his bigoted views and not intended to silence voices that point that out. Please don't try to paint me as someone who does that.

Sugiyama laughed at the idea of LGBT suicide rates in Japan. Decency is not owed to someone who never showed it themselves.

That said, this reply at least attempts to make a distinction between Sugiyama and the ppl celebrating his death. So, I apologise for making an incorrect assessment of your first comment.  



CaptainExplosion said:
Xxain said:

I would put racism right up there with Sugiyama's nonsense. Totally confused why you are acting high and mighty in this thread. As for the bold, if there is any reason that one would not notice you trying to be a better person its your childish and hypocrite behavior.

Now that I think about it, I think I recall you saying something low key racist in a thread you made about dark skin characters. Go work on your own self before you judge everybody else. 

I wouldn't judge others so much if they weren't always judging me for minor infractions I've made, and you ignored how Jumpin keeps slandering me AND the fact that he called me incestuous just for caring about my mother. How about taking a good long look at people BESIDES ME?

Leynos said:

No rest for the wicked. I never mourn a nazi.

Neither do I. Especially one who OPENLY LAUGHED AT THE SUICIDES OF MEMBERS OF THE LGBT COMMUNITY. Sceptic shock is a horrible way to die, which befits what a horrible man Sugiyama was in the end.

I'm not laughing I just feel the world didn't lose anything. What people may not know is his replacement is a man by Hayato and is about as opposite as they get, Good dude and not a fan of that bad midi. Vet composer himself and the torch is now his and I look forward to the series with him at the helm.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!