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Forums - Movies Discussion - Return of the King vs Return of the Jedi

 

Which is better?

Return of the King 60 75.95%
 
Return of the Jedi 19 24.05%
 
Total:79
curl-6 said:
mZuzek said:

Even as someone who disliked The Last Jedi heavily, Rise of Skywalker still managed to go far and beyond my very low expectations. TLJ was bad but at least it was trying to do something. Rise of Skywalker has to be up there as one of the most soulless pieces of cinema ever made. Absolutely devoid of substance.

Yikes, considering how atrocious Last Jedi was, this only cements my desire to stay well away from Rise of Skywalker.

The entire 2010s trilogy was a mistake.

Agreed.

For me, by the time Rise of Skywalker came around, I had already given up on Star Wars as a whole and was really past the point of caring, which made it so I could watch it in a casual and relaxed mood. As a "so bad it's good" kind of movie, it sure provided entertainment. But it's hard to allow yourself to experience Star Wars with that kind of mindset, given what it used to be.




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mZuzek said:
curl-6 said:

Yikes, considering how atrocious Last Jedi was, this only cements my desire to stay well away from Rise of Skywalker.

The entire 2010s trilogy was a mistake.

Agreed.

For me, by the time Rise of Skywalker came around, I had already given up on Star Wars as a whole and was really past the point of caring, which made it so I could watch it in a casual and relaxed mood. As a "so bad it's good" kind of movie, it sure provided entertainment. But it's hard to allow yourself to experience Star Wars with that kind of mindset, given what it used to be.

Yeah, I watched every Star Wars film to come out in my lifetime at the cinema up to Last Jedi, and it just broke me. Completely ruined Star Wars for me and made me not give a shit about it any more. Modern Disney is poison, they wreck everything they touch.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

curl-6 said:
mZuzek said:

For me, by the time Rise of Skywalker came around, I had already given up on Star Wars as a whole and was really past the point of caring, which made it so I could watch it in a casual and relaxed mood. As a "so bad it's good" kind of movie, it sure provided entertainment. But it's hard to allow yourself to experience Star Wars with that kind of mindset, given what it used to be.

Yeah, I watched every Star Wars film to come out in my lifetime at the cinema up to Last Jedi, and it just broke me. Completely ruined Star Wars for me and made me not give a shit about it any more. Modern Disney is poison, they wreck everything they touch.

They haven't ruined Marvel in my opinion, but it really feels like it's only a matter of time.




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my top 50 games

mZuzek said:
Verter said:

Star Wars has an excelent lore, fantastic ambientation and very good characterization with great special effects, and of the eight movies of the main saga that I've watched (I haven't had the chance to watch the last one yet, fortunately)

Fixed.

IcaroRibeiro said:
Verter said:

I haven't had the chance to watch the last one yet, unfortunately

You are actually fortunate. Just don't know it yet :p 

Seriously though, people on internet screams about how bad some SW movies are (mainly Phantom Menace, The Last Jedi and Solo A Star Wars Story), but the Rise of Skywalker is the only Star Wars movie that is a disaster from a cinematic standpoint

My intuition tells me that you two slightly dislike this movie. =P Maybe they should've called it The Fall of Skywalker instead.

I barely know anything about it, because I'm a ninja when it comes to avoiding spoilers, but my conclusion when I heard a very brief, spoiler-free opinion/comment from a friend was that The Rise of Skywalker could be compared to a dish of fan service covered in fan service sauce with a splash of fan service all around it and a garnish of fan service at the top, all of that accompanied by a cup of fan service and served on a fan service platter. Sort of.

Anyway, I'll watch it because the curiosity (that thing that killed the cat) is strong in me.

OT, since I'm here I'm going to make a couple of comments about the anticlimax of the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, which has been mentioned here more than once. That, however, goes in a spoiler tag (even if it's kind of unnecessary in this thread).

Spoiler!

The Battle of the Pelennor Fields is a crescendo structured in four/five stages, depending on if you want to count in the Grond or not. It we count it in, we have this progression: one, the siege begins with its regular siege stuff going on; two, the Grond makes its appearance and breaks the main gates of Minas Tirith; three, the Rohirrim come and kick the ass of every orc that gets in their way; four, the Haradrim join the war with their Mûmakil and crash the Rohirrim as if they were ants; five, the king returns with his dead-ly (hehe) army and they shatter every living being on the fields.

In this situation, you can't just break the structure and make the following step weaker than, or equal to, the previous one, because in both cases you'd be breaking the progression and that would also be anticlimactic, but even worse, because the audience would be left with a bittersweet sensation of the battle not being as good as it could've been. Thus, what you could conclude that you should do is making an over-the-top climax, but the problem with that in this particular case is that you can't finish this battle with a too high note, because this is not the final battle, even it feels like it is. So ending this battle with too much epicity would leave the audience already satiated with greatness (so to speak), and the consequences of that would be 1) that the final battle would feel less important or even completely redundant, and 2) that the whole conclusion of the movie would be excessively saturated with artificial epicity, which would harm the movie more than help it.

However, if you give the audience an anticlimax without breaking the progression of the battle, you leave the impression on them that it was good and epic, while still leaving them eager for more and not fully saciated. So as long as that anticlimax leads to something actually bigger, that's not a problem at all, because you're more than going to make up for it. And that's, of course, the case with The Return of the King and the Battle of the Black Gate, which is better as a climax than the Battle of the Pelennor Fields because of Aragorn's speechall the tension generated by the convergence of the two big plots of the movie: the one that takes place in the realms of men and the one featuring Frodo, Sam and my precious.

And that's also one of the reasons why The Return of the King is so praised as a conclusion of the trilogy (apart from just being an excelent film): because the lesser time you leave between the close of one plot and the close of the others (and between the first plot closed and the end of the movie), the more satisfied the audience tends to feel. And The Return of the King closes its two main plots at the same freaking time.

Last edited by Verter - on 06 July 2021

I have periods of social disconnection, it's a part of me that I need and keenly embrace. I'll still log in and read news and threads during those times, but I won't be (very) active on the site, so I apologize for any inconvenience that this may cause (late answers, bumps or the like).

Also...

Please, feel free to correct my English.

Verter said:

I barely know anything about it, because I'm a ninja when it comes to avoiding spoilers, but my conclusion when I heard a very brief, spoiler-free opinion/comment from a friend was that The Rise of Skywalker could be compared to a dish of fan service covered in fan service sauce with a splash of fan service all around it and a garnish of fan service at the top, all of that accompanied by a cup of fan service and served on a fan service platter. Sort of.

Pretty much.




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Verter said:

I barely know anything about it, because I'm a ninja when it comes to avoiding spoilers, but my conclusion when I heard a very brief, spoiler-free opinion/comment from a friend was that The Rise of Skywalker could be compared to a dish of fan service covered in fan service sauce with a splash of fan service all around it and a garnish of fan service at the top, all of that accompanied by a cup of fan service and served on a fan service platter. Sort of.My intuition tells me that you two slightly dislike this movie. =P Maybe they should've called it The Fall of Skywalker instead.

Anyway, I'll watch it because the curiosity (that thing that killed the cat) is strong in me.

Exactly. The  game is nothing but mindless fanservice. I think even for the most unambicious popcorn blockbusters we still need some substance, this is a movie with no substance, there is no story to tell. The movie is a parody of itself, that are moments where the villain start a devious laugh and you just laugh with him because you can't take that seriously 



IcaroRibeiro said:
Verter said:

I barely know anything about it, because I'm a ninja when it comes to avoiding spoilers, but my conclusion when I heard a very brief, spoiler-free opinion/comment from a friend was that The Rise of Skywalker could be compared to a dish of fan service covered in fan service sauce with a splash of fan service all around it and a garnish of fan service at the top, all of that accompanied by a cup of fan service and served on a fan service platter. Sort of.My intuition tells me that you two slightly dislike this movie. =P Maybe they should've called it The Fall of Skywalker instead.

Anyway, I'll watch it because the curiosity (that thing that killed the cat) is strong in me.

Exactly. The  game is nothing but mindless fanservice. I think even for the most unambicious popcorn blockbusters we still need some substance, this is a movie with no substance, there is no story to tell. The movie is a parody of itself, that are moments where the villain start a devious laugh and you just laugh with him because you can't take that seriously 

Yeah the more I hear about it the more it solidifies my decision to never watch it. 

I don't mind fanservice when done right; recently Godzilla vs Kong had quite a bit of it and I enjoyed that film a lot, but to echo Verter's analogy, it's okay if it's the sauce, but not the entire dish. When a film becomes a vapid, arrogant celebration of itself without the quality to back it up, it just comes off as obnoxious. 

To bring it back to LOTR, I feel like these films walk a nearly perfect line between respecting and staying true to the essence of the source material without catering too hard to the fans or being a slavish monument to its past.

The Hobbit films by contrast, did become something of a parody of themselves, and just ended up feeling tacky.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

curl-6 said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

Exactly. The  game is nothing but mindless fanservice. I think even for the most unambicious popcorn blockbusters we still need some substance, this is a movie with no substance, there is no story to tell. The movie is a parody of itself, that are moments where the villain start a devious laugh and you just laugh with him because you can't take that seriously 

Yeah the more I hear about it the more it solidifies my decision to never watch it. 

I don't mind fanservice when done right; recently Godzilla vs Kong had quite a bit of it and I enjoyed that film a lot, but to echo Verter's analogy, it's okay if it's the sauce, but not the entire dish. When a film becomes a vapid, arrogant celebration of itself without the quality to back it up, it just comes off as obnoxious. 

If only the fanservice was done right in Rise of Skywalker, then the movie would've only felt hollow. But not only is the whole thing fanservice, it's fanservice done so wrong... like, I think they were trying to make it feel like this really epic finale but even looking past its soullessness, the stakes felt lower than ever for the series. And that's without getting into the vast multitude of nonsensical moments and plot holes - the amount of these on display far surpasses that of The Last Jedi, but here they don't even have the cinematography or set pieces to back it up. Everything is ugly and boring.




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Well, I'm not much of a fan of Lord of the Rings, but I do love the original SW trilogy. So yes, SW because bias.