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Forums - Politics Discussion - The Israeli-Palestinian Crisis in mainstream media is getting exposure as ethnic cleansing

Here is an excellent brief on the atrocities that Israel continues against the Palestinians:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsxO-z1ZEC4



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EnricoPallazzo said:
Eagle367 said:

Palestenians can't create a state with the land they have left. That's why realists talk about one state with equal rights. Israel has to take in and take responsibility for all the people that it has control over.

I dont know how many people we are talking about, but the jews could give back the stolen land from the west bank with all those illegal settlements. 

But you may be right, it may be too late for them after refusing having their own state three times. In the end they will end up with nothing, or maybe only Gaza.

Based on what I read and watched about the apartheid regime imposed by the jews I doubt they would accept equal rights for the Palestinians, they are too large as a population to have equal rights, it would be too dangerous for Israel.

First of all, stop blaming the Palestenians for them not being able to make a state. Both are at fault but Israel has more of a blame for a Palestenian state not existing because Israel has much more power to deliver and Palestenians are and were dependant on Israel to have a state. Israel was being reasonable in all of the peace deals. The closest it came to a Palestenian state was during the Clinton years but even then, there were problems. 

Second equal human rights is never "too dangerous." That's bs. I don't really care what they call the land as long as they have equal rights. Equal rights are good for all of the humans. Israel is just a made up state, just like any made up state. As long as all people have equal rights, they can call it Tatooine for all I care. But I do agree that the apartheid regime won't give up power easily. That's why the world needs to put pressure on Israel to deliver. The world was able to do it for South Africa and it is able to do it for Israel. The first step is the US entering reality and stop supporting the apartheid regime. 



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Eagle367 said:
EnricoPallazzo said:

I dont know how many people we are talking about, but the jews could give back the stolen land from the west bank with all those illegal settlements. 

But you may be right, it may be too late for them after refusing having their own state three times. In the end they will end up with nothing, or maybe only Gaza.

Based on what I read and watched about the apartheid regime imposed by the jews I doubt they would accept equal rights for the Palestinians, they are too large as a population to have equal rights, it would be too dangerous for Israel.

First of all, stop blaming the Palestenians for them not being able to make a state. Both are at fault but Israel has more of a blame for a Palestenian state not existing because Israel has much more power to deliver and Palestenians are and were dependant on Israel to have a state. Israel was being reasonable in all of the peace deals. The closest it came to a Palestenian state was during the Clinton years but even then, there were problems. 

Second equal human rights is never "too dangerous." That's bs. I don't really care what they call the land as long as they have equal rights. Equal rights are good for all of the humans. Israel is just a made up state, just like any made up state. As long as all people have equal rights, they can call it Tatooine for all I care. But I do agree that the apartheid regime won't give up power easily. That's why the world needs to put pressure on Israel to deliver. The world was able to do it for South Africa and it is able to do it for Israel. The first step is the US entering reality and stop supporting the apartheid regime. 

They were offered three times a chance to have a state and said no and decided to keep fighting. While I admire their determination, they have a very weak hand in any negotiation. Its up to them to accept whatever leftover is handed to them, they can't choose, they can't force israel to give them a better deal. And even if a state was created today it would be worse then in the clinton era which was worse than before.

And for human rights... yeah.. try giving them 100% of the same rights the jews have, the right to vote in israeli elections for 100% of the people including gaza and etc. It just won't work. For the jews of course. As it would give them much more power than they could never have. Israel will never accept that and will prefer keeping the apartheid. 



EnricoPallazzo said:
Eagle367 said:

First of all, stop blaming the Palestenians for them not being able to make a state. Both are at fault but Israel has more of a blame for a Palestenian state not existing because Israel has much more power to deliver and Palestenians are and were dependant on Israel to have a state. Israel was being reasonable in all of the peace deals. The closest it came to a Palestenian state was during the Clinton years but even then, there were problems. 

Second equal human rights is never "too dangerous." That's bs. I don't really care what they call the land as long as they have equal rights. Equal rights are good for all of the humans. Israel is just a made up state, just like any made up state. As long as all people have equal rights, they can call it Tatooine for all I care. But I do agree that the apartheid regime won't give up power easily. That's why the world needs to put pressure on Israel to deliver. The world was able to do it for South Africa and it is able to do it for Israel. The first step is the US entering reality and stop supporting the apartheid regime. 

They were offered three times a chance to have a state and said no and decided to keep fighting. While I admire their determination, they have a very weak hand in any negotiation. Its up to them to accept whatever leftover is handed to them, they can't choose, they can't force israel to give them a better deal. And even if a state was created today it would be worse then in the clinton era which was worse than before.

And for human rights... yeah.. try giving them 100% of the same rights the jews have, the right to vote in israeli elections for 100% of the people including gaza and etc. It just won't work. For the jews of course. As it would give them much more power than they could never have. Israel will never accept that and will prefer keeping the apartheid. 

That's why the world needs to pressure them. It can be done as shown by what happened in South Africa. If no state works with Israel, then they will be forced to give up their power. The US needs to stop supporting the apartheid regime as the first step. All the arms sales need to stop. All the leaders need to be sanctioned, not the common people but all of the government officials and people in power. All trade négociations halted, etc. 



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Eagle367 said:
EnricoPallazzo said:

They were offered three times a chance to have a state and said no and decided to keep fighting. While I admire their determination, they have a very weak hand in any negotiation. Its up to them to accept whatever leftover is handed to them, they can't choose, they can't force israel to give them a better deal. And even if a state was created today it would be worse then in the clinton era which was worse than before.

And for human rights... yeah.. try giving them 100% of the same rights the jews have, the right to vote in israeli elections for 100% of the people including gaza and etc. It just won't work. For the jews of course. As it would give them much more power than they could never have. Israel will never accept that and will prefer keeping the apartheid. 

That's why the world needs to pressure them. It can be done as shown by what happened in South Africa. If no state works with Israel, then they will be forced to give up their power. The US needs to stop supporting the apartheid regime as the first step. All the arms sales need to stop. All the leaders need to be sanctioned, not the common people but all of the government officials and people in power. All trade négociations halted, etc. 

Agree 100%. Although I think the situation is much different from the South Africa situation. It's a land dispute. Even is Israel would accept palestinians as equals, there would be still the dispute about land. Would palestinians accept living in peace with Israel but giving their land in exchange and being part of a country called Israel? Dont think so. Jews also wouldnt allow it because at some point palestinians could become a majority in their own land. Its very complicated. I still think a 2 independent state solution is the only way out. I guess we will probably be discussing the same thing 30 years in the future.



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EnricoPallazzo said:
Eagle367 said:

That's why the world needs to pressure them. It can be done as shown by what happened in South Africa. If no state works with Israel, then they will be forced to give up their power. The US needs to stop supporting the apartheid regime as the first step. All the arms sales need to stop. All the leaders need to be sanctioned, not the common people but all of the government officials and people in power. All trade négociations halted, etc. 

Agree 100%. Although I think the situation is much different from the South Africa situation. It's a land dispute. Even is Israel would accept palestinians as equals, there would be still the dispute about land. Would palestinians accept living in peace with Israel but giving their land in exchange and being part of a country called Israel? Dont think so. Jews also wouldnt allow it because at some point palestinians could become a majority in their own land. Its very complicated. I still think a 2 independent state solution is the only way out. I guess we will probably be discussing the same thing 30 years in the future.

There would need to be concessions for sure. Palestenians would have to have a right to return. Some reparations would need to happen. Palestenians would need to learn to live with Israelis on a shared piece of land. The Israeli Jews would need to accept that they will become a minority, though a sizable one. The name of the country itself would probably change as well. Ideally a name that includes both Palestine and Israel. People would need to learn to have a shared identity just like any new nation. It won't be perfect just like Pakistan and South Africa aren't perfect. It would need work. But it'll be a lot better than what is happening today.

Two state solution is impossible unless Israel give a land back to Palestine and makes it so it's one land mass and Gaza isn't isolated plus it'll need to define it's borders properly which it doesn't do currently. Both aren't easy to do options but a one state solution with equal rights is more feasible.



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

You know, after muddling through four elections in two years inconclusively, I've been wondering for some time what it would take for the Israelis to finally oust Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. This appears to be it, as eight parties led by the centrist Yesh Atid Party's leader Yair Lapid have just reached an agreement days ago to form a majority government that excludes the current Israeli prime minister's conservative Likud Party. Netanyahu and Co. will have until June 15th -- 11 days from now -- to try and peel off shaky votes in the Knesset (Israeli parliament), but such efforts, however robust, aren't expected to succeed.

The caveat is that this new coalition that Lapid has announced is a very, very broad, unity government type of one that spans the entire political spectrum from the far left to the far right, to the point of including democratic socialists as well as both an Arab-Israeli party and a hardline Jewish nationalist party that supports roughly full annexation of the West Bank and a little bit of everything in-between. Shared opposition to Netanyahu, and the view that he is corrupt and should be convicted of the charges currently against him in court, appears to be the only thread holding this fragile parliamentary alliance together and such a government's ability to do basic things like pass a budget are widely questioned, to which end there is suspicion that this incoming government may not last out its entire four-year term. However, it will be the first actual government Israel has had in more than two years now and that's not nothing.

Anyway, the point is that the timing of this sudden development hardly seems coincidental. The current Israeli prime minister has simply alienated too many people.

Last edited by Jaicee - on 05 June 2021

TV shows have discussed the Israel situation. Including It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia in the classic episode The Gang Goes Jihad.

In this episode of Its Always Sunny in Philadelphia, a man from Israel comes to the US, and buys some land for an old run down video... it even has a gas leak. As it turns out, half of Paddy's Pub is on that land - he sends a notice for them to vacate the property while he does construction on the land he's taken.

They're unsure how to handle the situation. Dennis wants to toilet paper the building and they argue what's anti-Semitic or not.

The Jewish guy builds a wall around the pub, making it more difficult for the gang to get from their homes to work

Now desperate, they brainstorm ideas. Charlie thinks their next pranks should be to throw a flaming bag of poop through the window.

They come up with another idea, and make a Jihad tape.

They then decide to go with Charlie's idea, and throw a bag of flaming poop through the window of the building owned by the Israeli guy. They didn't know about the aforementioned gas leak.

(fast forward to 0:48)



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.