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Forums - Sales Discussion - Outriders UK sales Split.

JRPGfan said:
VersusEvil said:

"Gamepass bad" if that's all you wanted to say you could have just posted that on your wall.

Then you missed the point of my OP.

Retail sales of the games, are way down on xbox, due to gamepass.
This isnt about the game devs makeing money, due to contracts with microsoft, or if gamepass makes MS any money.

The perspective Im looking at here, is just from the data of retail sales we have.
If gamepass, hits retail sales hard, and digital stores keep growing.... theres little insentive to stock them in your store.
Basically physical game sales, and stores are struggleing with the growth of digital.
Gamepass is another massive attack, on physical sales, and how profitable it is to sell games (physical copies) in stores.

but its not new, we had a similar thread in 2010? 2009? how it is going to be hard for stores because Tomb Raider Anniversary became the first digital (AAA) game on consoles (360 I believe). At that point game stores should have started to adept to the changing climate.  At this point the majority of video game stores are nothing more than overpriced annoying post collection points. The biggest group of customers are now children who are not allowed to have a Credit card and have to get a 15$ fortnite redeem card in the stores. Except for retro themed I barely ever go to game stores anymore and just like those CD chain stores I will not miss them :s.






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I understand your point.

Sales for Digital and Physical copies for PS4/PS5 Versions Will make Way more profit for the Publisher than Sales on Xbox Consoles and money coming from Gamepass.

Is not that is Gamepass is bad but is clearly which platform is making more money for the publisher than the other.



kazuyamishima said:

I understand your point.

Sales for Digital and Physical copies for PS4/PS5 Versions Will make Way more profit for the Publisher than Sales on Xbox Consoles and money coming from Gamepass.

Is not that is Gamepass is bad but is clearly which platform is making more money for the publisher than the other.

Oh, you know the profit made from Outriders? Also how much money Squeenix is getting for putting it on GamePass? Please share.

As for the OP, aren't most game sales digital already nowadays? You need more info to make any sort of compelling argument.

1. How many physical sales there were
2. How many digital sales there were
3. What is the PS/Xbox split in the UK

Also retailers really don't make much money on software sales, they make them on accessories and in most game retailers case, used games. That's why if you go into a US GameStop store nowadays it's probably 40% games and 60% accessories and overpriced pop culture trash.



LudicrousSpeed said:
kazuyamishima said:

I understand your point.

Sales for Digital and Physical copies for PS4/PS5 Versions Will make Way more profit for the Publisher than Sales on Xbox Consoles and money coming from Gamepass.

Is not that is Gamepass is bad but is clearly which platform is making more money for the publisher than the other.

Oh, you know the profit made from Outriders? Also how much money Squeenix is getting for putting it on GamePass? Please share.

As for the OP, aren't most game sales digital already nowadays? You need more info to make any sort of compelling argument.

1. How many physical sales there were
2. How many digital sales there were
3. What is the PS/Xbox split in the UK

Also retailers really don't make much money on software sales, they make them on accessories and in most game retailers case, used games. That's why if you go into a US GameStop store nowadays it's probably 40% games and 60% accessories and overpriced pop culture trash.

For every $60 game sold,  The publisher (Square Enix) makes about $28-30 bucks (physical game) and much more by selling it digitally. 

So, if for example, let’s say, the total retail sales ATM WW for this game are 1 million, and the ratio remains the same compared to UK. 
830K copies are on PS consoles and 170K on Xbox consoles. 
That means that the publisher gets about $23.4 millions from PS consoles and about $4.76 millions from Xbox consoles.

How much do you reckon MS paid for having it day one on Gamepass? $1 million, 3 millions, 5 millions, 10 millions??

Also, The retailer (GameStop, Walmart, BB, etc) makes about 25% of the price or $15, so yes they are making some money by selling physical software. 



Really curious to know how those deals with gamepass works. Maybe they make a projection of sales and compensate the developer for a certain amount of "guaranteed" units?
Let's think this game would sell 2 million copies on Xbox on release, but ends selling only 1 million due to gamepass. That means the developer would lose probably around 40 USD per copy, or 40 million dollars in revenue. Anything less than that from microsoft would not make sense. Thats a lot of money for just one deal.



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kazuyamishima said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

Oh, you know the profit made from Outriders? Also how much money Squeenix is getting for putting it on GamePass? Please share.

As for the OP, aren't most game sales digital already nowadays? You need more info to make any sort of compelling argument.

1. How many physical sales there were
2. How many digital sales there were
3. What is the PS/Xbox split in the UK

Also retailers really don't make much money on software sales, they make them on accessories and in most game retailers case, used games. That's why if you go into a US GameStop store nowadays it's probably 40% games and 60% accessories and overpriced pop culture trash.

For every $60 game sold,  The publisher (Square Enix) makes about $28-30 bucks (physical game) and much more by selling it digitally. 

So, if for example, let’s say, the total retail sales ATM WW for this game are 1 million, and the ratio remains the same compared to UK. 
830K copies are on PS consoles and 170K on Xbox consoles. 
That means that the publisher gets about $23.4 millions from PS consoles and about $4.76 millions from Xbox consoles.

How much do you reckon MS paid for having it day one on Gamepass? $1 million, 3 millions, 5 millions, 10 millions??

Also, The retailer (GameStop, Walmart, BB, etc) makes about 25% of the price or $15, so yes they are making some money by selling physical software. 

I can’t imagine any retailer has more bargaining power than Walmart and they make so little on software that they cut $10 off all games (except Sony games for some reason, I guess Sony has a rule against retailers pricing their games) and even Walmart only gets 10-13% which means on a $70 Sony title they’ll “profit” $13. Compared to huge markups they see on cables, cases, controllers, chargers, etc. Or in GameStops case, huge markup on used games.

Regarding profit vs GamePass, you proved my point. When you say we “know” one platform profited more than the other, you’re just guessing with no numbers to stand on. The biggest flaw in your argument is that we don’t know what method of monetization Squeenix has with Outriders. We know MS gives some publishers a big check upfront. Other get paid for time, others by download, and others a mixture of some/all of those. We don’t know how they get compensated.



quite sure its also one of the biggest games on steam rn



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Not surprising. Who would choose to buy it when its free somewhere on the same platform. Question is only if they got paid enough to offset the ones not buying it anymore. This game is not getting a lot of praise, so maybe it would not have sold much to beging with. So it might be alright.



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People always wanting to hate on Gamepass really annoy me. The program has saved me hundreds of dollars. It has allowed me to try and enjoy games I wouldn't have ever bought, and try and hate games I would have otherwise purchased regretfully. Microsoft is obviously paying these third parties well because if not, why would they put their games on Gamepass? And if MS is paying them well, then either they are making a lot of money off of an increasing subscriber base, or they are anticipating they will based on data they have collected so far. Gamepass is great for consumers, great for investors, great for developers. The only people I see hate on it are the ones who are obsessed with sales figures and treat them like they are everything. This is 2021 people, it's very much about subscription models, will one day be ALL about subscription models, and it will NEVER go back to ALL being about sales figures again.

Why spend $500-1000 a year on game purchases for games, 90% of them, you will never touch again? It's a silly waste of money for those of us buying digitally. I only spend $180 a year on Gamepass PC.



JRPGfan said:

Apparently, its 52% PS5, 31% PS4, 17% Xbox Series/Xbox One.
Thats over 83% of retail sales are on Sony side.

Gamepass, litterally killing retail sales for this title on xbox side.
Makes you wonder if the trend continues, theres still value in retail stores, selling xbox consoles+games.
You could imagine it reaches a point, where the profits for the retail side, are so small, its not worth it (because gamepass took it all from them).

So as has been said there's a lot we don't know about the MS deal and also the digital sales to say anything concrete about profitability for Square Enix. 

As for profitability for retailers, it's no doubt that they're stuck in an unenviable situation. There is a reason that all those hedge funds opened so many short positions on Gamestop. But they'll absolutely keep stocking consoles of all descriptions for as long as they exist, because:

1) they bring people to the door of your shop. 

2) Retailers make a tiny commission on consoles really. They love to sell them to you bundled with all sorts of hats, extra peripherals to actually make some money from the operation. citation: Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S Consoles | GAME

3) Insofar as retailers have any strategic market power at all, they'd rather sell you the console than lose the business to another retailer.