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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Which XBOX 360 model is your favorite and why?

 

Which XBOX 360 design is your favorite?

XBOX 360 Pro/Elite [FAT] 6 26.09%
 
XBOX 360 S [Slim] 15 65.22%
 
XBOX 360 E [SuperSlim] 2 8.70%
 
Total:23
Pemalite said:

Nope.

Xenon (90nm CPU and 90nm GPU) > Repaired Xenons used OPUS. (65nm CPU, 90nm GPU and 80nm eDRAM.)
Zephyr (80nm GPU, 90nm CPU, 90nm eDRAM)
Falcon (65nm CPU, 80nm GPU, 80nm eDRAM)
Jasper. (65nm CPU, 65nm GPU, 80nm eDRAM)

Jasper is clearly a step up from Falcon and a massive overhaul from Xenon, no doubt... Power supply even went from 203w to 150w or a decrease of 26%.

The Jasper revision eventually got a few updates on top of it's revision known as Kronos, which had a smaller board, new RF module and dropped copper heatpipes, revised fan shroud for better airflow, ram heatsinks and more.

But it doesn't stop there.

The biggest overhaul was actually with Trinity/Valhalla in the Xbox 360 S

It rolled the CPU, GPU and eDRAM into a single chip... But also shrunk them down to 45nm.. Power delivery was also reduced to 133w, another step down from Jaspers 150w.

Real world power consumption is of course different than rated power of a PSU. (As you need to take into account cap aging and degrading efficiency of PSU's over time.)

Anandtech however measured it's power consumption...

And the results are:
At Idle:
Jasper - 93.7w
Trinity/Valhalla - 70.4%
 
That is a reduction of 24%.

Gears of War 2/Gaming:
Jasper - 105.9w
Trinity/Valhalla - 88w.

That is a reduction of 16.9%.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/3774/welcome-to-valhalla-inside-the-new-250gb-xbox-360-slim

Trinity consolidates allot of the chips and components, so there is simply far less to fail.


As for space and cooling... You need to keep in mind this is going to become a physics problem very quickly if you go down this rabbit hole.

In short... It doesn't matter how large or small your case is if you simply are not removing the heat, thermodynamics literally comes into play here... Convection, Conduction or Radiation are the three main elements to dealing with thermals... You will remove heat better in a smaller case with better guided airflows over heat generating components (Xbox 360 S) than a larger case that is spinning air around at random (Xbox 360 Fat sans-heatpipe).

I am the owner of an Xbox One X and an Xbox One... The Xbox One and One X are only a good 20w of power difference... But anyone who has compared the size of the Xbox One and Xbox One X knows that the Xbox One X is a comparatively tiny machine. - But also runs cool and silent.
How? More efficient REMOVAL of heat from the components and case thanks to the vapor chamber and guided air flows.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-microsoft-xbox-one-x-review_1

I also own an Xbox Series X and that takes the same design philosophy to cooling... With dense components, but better guided airflows.

As for 1 cooler vs 2 cooler due to 1 chip vs 2 chips. - 1 chip is absolutely superior, because that is one less heat source you need to deal with and provide power delivery (Thus requiring beefier mosfets etc')... Which is why every Xbox console since the Xbox 360 S has had a single chip.

Xbox One, Xbox One S, Xbox One X, Xbox Series S, Xbox Series X, Playstation 4, Playstation 5, Nintendo Switch, Nintendo WiiU... All single chip designs.

Youtube is not an empirical source of information.

There are literally "experts" with various degrees on Youtube who assert that the world is flat.

Whatever argument you hold, can be found and supported on youtube.

We don't take a -insert scientist here- word at face value, we put his assertions through the scientific method to determine if his findings are repeatable and thus true, in short everything gets judged on it's individual merits and subjected to vigorous testing rather than blindly believe because they might have a degree.

Also something to note is you don't know what qualifications/degrees I hold, which may be superior to that engineers on this very topic.

The Xbox 360 S/E also have thermal protection mechanisms built in... Something the older models didn't have which makes RROD/RDOT much much much more unlikely.
https://www.destructoid.com/stories/xbox-360-slims-shut-down-to-prevent-red-ring-of-death-177121.phtml

I had a Jasper variant, it got the RROD 3 times, Microsoft replaced it every single time of course.
Eventually ditched it and got the Slim and been happy ever since.

So .. about the sizes of the chips, I know them, I've read them, and yes the Kronos are even refined Jaspers, which there isn't much information on the web I don't know why .. maybe because it came very late to the FAT 360's life and was very close to the announcing of the slims models. Kronoses are actually the best, and mine is Kronos. Still lives to this day it's more than 10 years now and I have player numerous hours on it, and played actively through that 10 years almost every day. As far as overhauls and new designs and innovation in the structure goes, I am not denying this, it's normal, they are building new revisions, they will put new components inside, and on paper better cooling and new ways for the system to be working better. At least on paper .. And in practice the S and the E are really working better than any other 360 revision, only without the Jasper. I am not denying the lower power consumption or the new ways for cooling or the new components inside. Certainly when designing the new revisions Microsoft have a target to do them the close to perfection as they can. No one is denying that. Anyone who does something wants to make it the best. However the facts are that anywhere on the web (reddit, youtube, even ebay if you want) there are many many brokens OG FAT consoles. Why ? Because this is the reality, the OG FAT consoles were red ringing left and right. Then there are also some units here and there on the S and the E models that are shown as overheated (RDOD). Yes for sure there is some fake cases maybe, but they can't all be faked. There will be some real. And it's not only youtube videos, it's posts on reddit, I've read many. It's on ebay as well, there are many listings of E and S models that have overheated. Again, probably some of them will be maybe the error of the user, and the console will work, there are many peoples that don't have enough knowledge to say if one console is broken or not. But there will be also some of the listings that will be really overheated consoles. No way every one of them to be faked or working. And what about the Jaspers ? well as I already said I can't find neither listing nor videos or reddit posts with real jasper unit failing because of overheating or real red ring of death, call it what you want. So yes, on theory you are right, I am not denying the better components or the better cooling maybe, however there is something in the S and the E consoles obviously that is causing some % of the consoles to overheat.

And we are talking here strictly for the XBOX 360 console. I don't have doubts about the perfect engineering work Microsoft did with the xbox one and the xbox series consoles. However there is one point where you've reached enough of a good engineered console that is enough for it to last for many many years, without braking. And this they accomplished with the Jasper and the Kronos motherboards. And they did even better job with the xbox one and the xbox Series consoles however you can't tell the difference from customer stand point about the reliability of the console because all of these consoles (the jasper 360 and xbox one and xbox series) can live without a problem for 10 or 15 years. Yes there is units of the Slims and the E that surely also can live 10 or 15 years, however there is also some of them that are overheating in some point of their live, and those are not present on the Jasper motherboard, this is what I am trying to tell.

The percentage of failed overheating Jasper is 0 or closer to 0 than it is about the slims and the E models. Since I am not god to know every single unit on the world if there is some overheated or not, (at least I can't find one) I can't tell it's 0 but whatever number is it is less number than the S and E, from what I've seen on the web - some amount of overheated S and E consoles, and not a single confirmed one Jasper.

About your case with the overheated Jasper you mentioned, you are the first person I hear with RROD Jasper, and not only once but 3 times .. I don't know.

I can tell you the opposite case, I have 360 FAT Kronos for more than 10 years now that I have been actively using almost every day for the past 11 years (I've stopped using it before 3-4 months because I played every single game I wanted on it and I have no more what to play on it). And also I have 2 friends both with slim consoles, both overheated. The one overheated sometime in 2015 or 2016 I think and the other died two years ago. It was red doth of death, I went there and check the codes and there were problems with the main chips, it was not something like bad disc drive or hard drive.  It was problem that needed reflow.

As far as the specialist on the youtube go, yes I agree with you, however I just put it as an example. My opinion is not made because of him or because of someone else. I've made my opinion based on much search on the web, on reddit, youtube, ebay, and also on different discussions with people, friends and co workers and cases from my situations with the console.

Good for your qualifications, you know many things, for sure, however in practise if you can't prove it, you are doing nothing.

So good for them they put the thermal protection or new stuff inside, however when the percentage failure rate is bigger than their older revision, they haven't done perfect job. And yes normally the newer thing are better. Most of the cases. However not all of them. This is one of those cases that the older revision remains the best.

So whatever you tell me or write to me about this or anyone else do, you can't change my mind because  I 've made my research on the web for this exact thing and I've found a decent amount of overheated red dot of death consoles S and E models and no cases for the Jaspers. And to this day I still continue to see new posts about dead S and E 360s sometimes when I am making my daily reddit routine. Also I have friends with Jasper, but in full functional order. And I have two that had the slim console and it died on both of them. So this is yet another point in my position about this.

Last edited by yo33331 - on 31 March 2021

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The S for sure. Still own it and it's the only Xbox still present in my life since I threw the XBO away and moved the Series X to dev duty and is now sitting in someone else's desk.

The Windows XP of console gaming.



Epic was right all along... 

yo33331 said:

So .. about the sizes of the chips, I know them, I've read them, and yes the Kronos are even refined Jaspers, which there isn't much information on the web I don't know why .. maybe because it came very late to the FAT 360's life and was very close to the announcing of the slims models. Kronoses are actually the best, and mine is Kronos. Still lives to this day it's more than 10 years now and I have player numerous hours on it, and played actively through that 10 years almost every day. As far as overhauls and new designs and innovation in the structure goes, I am not denying this, it's normal, they are building new revisions, they will put new components inside, and on paper better cooling and new ways for the system to be working better. At least on paper .. And in practice the S and the E are really working better than any other 360 revision, only without the Jasper. I am not denying the lower power consumption or the new ways for cooling or the new components inside. Certainly when designing the new revisions Microsoft have a target to do them the close to perfection as they can. No one is denying that. Anyone who does something wants to make it the best. However the facts are that anywhere on the web (reddit, youtube, even ebay if you want) there are many many brokens OG FAT consoles. Why ? Because this is the reality, the OG FAT consoles were red ringing left and right. Then there are also some units here and there on the S and the E models that are shown as overheated (RDOD). Yes for sure there is some fake cases maybe, but they can't all be faked. There will be some real. And it's not only youtube videos, it's posts on reddit, I've read many. It's on ebay as well, there are many listings of E and S models that have overheated. Again, probably some of them will be maybe the error of the user, and the console will work, there are many peoples that don't have enough knowledge to say if one console is broken or not. But there will be also some of the listings that will be really overheated consoles. No way every one of them to be faked or working. And what about the Jaspers ? well as I already said I can't find neither listing nor videos or reddit posts with real jasper unit failing because of overheating or real red ring of death, call it what you want. So yes, on theory you are right, I am not denying the better components or the better cooling maybe, however there is something in the S and the E consoles obviously that is causing some % of the consoles to overheat.

I have provided the evidence that the S and E models cannot overheat as they share the same feature as the Xbox One/Xbox Series X/Playstation 4/Playstation 5.
That is thermal shutdown.

You "not finding failed jaspers" is anecdotal and not evidence for anything.

Just like myself who owned several Jaspers that actually failed.

yo33331 said:

And we are talking here strictly for the XBOX 360 console. I don't have doubts about the perfect engineering work Microsoft did with the xbox one and the xbox series consoles. However there is one point where you've reached enough of a good engineered console that is enough for it to last for many many years, without braking. And this they accomplished with the Jasper and the Kronos motherboards. And they did even better job with the xbox one and the xbox Series consoles however you can't tell the difference from customer stand point about the reliability of the console because all of these consoles (the jasper 360 and xbox one and xbox series) can live without a problem for 10 or 15 years. Yes there is units of the Slims and the E that surely also can live 10 or 15 years, however there is also some of them that are overheating in some point of their live, and those are not present on the Jasper motherboard, this is what I am trying to tell.

Yes. We are talking strictly about the Xbox 360 console.
However Microsoft took some learned lessons during the Xbox 360's life that still influences the latest and greatest consoles today.

The Xbox One and Xbox Series X is not "perfect engineering". - Such a thing doesn't exist.

I am going to refer you back to this due to your continued claim of the Xbox 360 S/E overheating:
https://www.engadget.com/2010-06-21-new-xbox-360-has-red-dot-of-death-instead-not-quite.html

yo33331 said:

The percentage of failed overheating Jasper is 0 or closer to 0 than it is about the slims and the E models. Since I am not god to know every single unit on the world if there is some overheated or not, (at least I can't find one) I can't tell it's 0 but whatever number is it is less number than the S and E, from what I've seen on the web - some amount of overheated S and E consoles, and not a single confirmed one Jasper.

Prove that the Jaspers failure rate from overheating is 0 or "closer to 0".

You made a claim, you need to back it up.

yo33331 said:

About your case with the overheated Jasper you mentioned, you are the first person I hear with RROD Jasper, and not only once but 3 times .. I don't know.

I can tell you the opposite case, I have 360 FAT Kronos for more than 10 years now that I have been actively using almost every day for the past 11 years (I've stopped using it before 3-4 months because I played every single game I wanted on it and I have no more what to play on it). And also I have 2 friends both with slim consoles, both overheated. The one overheated sometime in 2015 or 2016 I think and the other died two years ago. It was red doth of death, I went there and check the codes and there were problems with the main chips, it was not something like bad disc drive or hard drive.  It was problem that needed reflow.

You are missing the point. The point I am trying to convey is that we cannot work from anecdotal evidence as it doesn't take the bigger picture into account or individual circumstances.
The fact that my Jasper consoles failed is entirely redundant...

For example I live in the driest state on the driest inhabited continent on Earth with summer Temperatures that will exceed 50'C/122'F in the shade. (Hot enough to melt roads.) - This isn't a good operating environment for most electronics, but Anecdotal evidence doesn't have the sample size to filter that out.

Again, I presented anecdotal evidence to refute your anecdotal evidence because I want you to find empirical evidence to backup your claims... But considering that has failed. Well. Is what it is.

yo33331 said:

As far as the specialist on the youtube go, yes I agree with you, however I just put it as an example. My opinion is not made because of him or because of someone else. I've made my opinion based on much search on the web, on reddit, youtube, ebay, and also on different discussions with people, friends and co workers and cases from my situations with the console.

I don't care about opinions, I care about facts.

yo33331 said:

Good for your qualifications, you know many things, for sure, however in practise if you can't prove it, you are doing nothing.

I have provided evidence prior.

yo33331 said:

So good for them they put the thermal protection or new stuff inside, however when the percentage failure rate is bigger than their older revision, they haven't done perfect job. And yes normally the newer thing are better. Most of the cases. However not all of them. This is one of those cases that the older revision remains the best.

Prove it.

yo33331 said:

So whatever you tell me or write to me about this or anyone else do, you can't change my mind because  I 've made my research on the web for this exact thing and I've found a decent amount of overheated red dot of death consoles S and E models and no cases for the Jaspers. And to this day I still continue to see new posts about dead S and E 360s sometimes when I am making my daily reddit routine. Also I have friends with Jasper, but in full functional order. And I have two that had the slim console and it died on both of them. So this is yet another point in my position about this.

This is known as a confirmation bias which is a logical fallacy.

The fact you refuse to change your mind when new information or evidence is presented is actually not a good thing.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:

I have provided the evidence that the S and E models cannot overheat as they share the same feature as the Xbox One/Xbox Series X/Playstation 4/Playstation 5.
That is thermal shutdown.

You "not finding failed jaspers" is anecdotal and not evidence for anything.

Just like myself who owned several Jaspers that actually failed.

Yes. We are talking strictly about the Xbox 360 console.
However Microsoft took some learned lessons during the Xbox 360's life that still influences the latest and greatest consoles today.

The Xbox One and Xbox Series X is not "perfect engineering". - Such a thing doesn't exist.

I am going to refer you back to this due to your continued claim of the Xbox 360 S/E overheating:
https://www.engadget.com/2010-06-21-new-xbox-360-has-red-dot-of-death-instead-not-quite.html

Prove that the Jaspers failure rate from overheating is 0 or "closer to 0".

You made a claim, you need to back it up.

You are missing the point. The point I am trying to convey is that we cannot work from anecdotal evidence as it doesn't take the bigger picture into account or individual circumstances.
The fact that my Jasper consoles failed is entirely redundant...

For example I live in the driest state on the driest inhabited continent on Earth with summer Temperatures that will exceed 50'C/122'F in the shade. (Hot enough to melt roads.) - This isn't a good operating environment for most electronics, but Anecdotal evidence doesn't have the sample size to filter that out.

Again, I presented anecdotal evidence to refute your anecdotal evidence because I want you to find empirical evidence to backup your claims... But considering that has failed. Well. Is what it is.

I don't care about opinions, I care about facts.

I have provided evidence prior.

Prove it.

This is known as a confirmation bias which is a logical fallacy.

The fact you refuse to change your mind when new information or evidence is presented is actually not a good thing.

The only thing you are proving and giving evidence for is the structure and the cooling methods of the newer motherboards.

In practice they fail. I can't go to every house in the world and capture a photo or video so I can prove it to you. However the closest thing to this I can do and I have already done is search on the web. If the E and the S are immune to RDOT or don't overheat there woudn't be posts and videos and listings on the different websites. As for the thermal shutdown this option is present in the jaspers as well maybe even in the falcons I am not sure. When the console go to high temperature it shut down automatically. However because there are dead consoles (even PS3 has this option) maybe this feature is not working 100% of the time. I don't know. The fact of the matter is that there is dead consoles despite this thermal shutdown. I am not god to prove you percentages of failure rate however you also can't prove anything. Because you only write down the things in theory. In practice I can go on the web and see many dead E and S consoles and no dead Jaspers. In real live too. I worked at a gaming store for a few years. There were some people that are coming to us and asking about what happened to their console, and even bringing it in the store. E and S models. However never ever have we seen Jasper dead. So I am not god to know every single case in the world about dead consoles. however we can take chances of what we see and heard. When the OG consoles red ringed we can found information about it anywhere on the web. When there is some cases of E and S consoles dead we also can search the web and find many. However I couldn't find one for Jasper consoles.

And not even that but everywhere I read topics and opinions about this, the people who have Jaspers always say that their console is live and well.

So again, you are not proving anything. And you are not giving me any evidence. The only thing you are doing is you explaining about the technology and the change of some of the components inside the newer revisions. Again the thermal shutdown is present in the consoles, even including PS3, way before the 360 slim. So check your information. I don't have anything else to say you. You are repeating the same things. On theory I can tell you the earth is flat. However on practice in real world the earth is round.

Last edited by yo33331 - on 01 April 2021