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Forums - Website Topics - Can mods stop deleting posts please?

Ryuu96 said:
JWeinCom said:
Alright, so let me clarify a bit since I'm the mod in question here.

I was doing a ban for someone. Among other issues were some objectionable posts on their walls.

When you ban people, there's a little box that says "Delete PMs and Walls". So... thinking this would delete PMs and walls, I thought "oh, well that seems appropriate for this situation, I'll do just that".

Unbeknownst to me clicking that box actually deletes every post they've made, and apparently some posts that quote them as well.

There's a possibility that I may have used that on other users too, if this has happened before. Like, John requested a ban, so I figured he'd want his walls wiped clean too. Now that I know that clicking the box doesn't do what I thought, I won't be clicking it anymore.

So, this was not an effort to delete posts. I legitimately had no idea that was even something I could do, and was as surprised as anyone else. I think they're working on changing the way that option works so it won't be an issue in the future.

For the record, I will take some of the blame too, Jwein is correct that the button itself isn't clearly labelled (it says nothing about deleting forum posts) which has led to some confusion as you can see. I am the Moderator that used it most often as it was originally only set up to delete spam accounts.

So I'll take some of the blame for not making it clear to my fellow Moderators what exactly the button does and when to use it.

In the case of John, it was a simple mistake, Jwein has explained well enough himself but I don't consider it a massive one since...John did request a perm and it wasn't like a "I need a break" but a "Fuck you" so I mean...Yeah.

As I've mentioned, Talon has now restricted it to Head Mods only, which is always the way Talon intended it to be but it was created in cooperation with myself so we assume (since I wasn't Head Mod) it was accidentally open to all Moderators.

We'll make sure this doesn't happen again and hopefully improve the implementation, I will say the issue of the thread counts being messed up is a minor issue though which is automatically fixed by opening the thread a few times.

I've also had a chat with Machina & TalonMan and Talon wants to be clear that it was never intended to be used for anything other than spam accounts, so NightlyPoe for now will remain the only requested deletion and we're putting a pause on requested deletions, the reason for this is a more technical one, there's concerns expressed by Talon regarding how it works on regular users.

He also would like if such a feature existed in the future for it to be implemented better, such as letting users delete themselves and changing it from deleting posts to replacing them with "Account Deleted" but it will be a huge feature and Talon is very busy, it also honestly isn't our issue, we don't own the site.

The feature will still be used on spam accounts, that isn't changing, even if they post in threads, that is simply something you'll have to deal with, a feature to allow account deletion may return in the future but it won't be the same one we use for spam deletion.

I have emailed Jlaruo to see if he can restore John's post history.

Thanks for this.

I remembered seeing it first with John. I thought he was banned for repeated blatant racism, rather than a requested ban. I didn't care enough about the user and didn't disagree with the ban itself so never brought it up at the time. But I assumed that was the method of perma-banning people, that all of their posts would be deleted and I thought it set a bad precedent for the future. So then when I logged in yesterday and saw a thread with - posts it raised those concerns again.

I think Talon's idea for replacing posts with "account deleted" would be a much better implementation too. I'd still rather it not be done, but if it was only at user's request as you've said then I'd have no reason to complain about it.

I don't care so much about it being used on spam bots, so I can deal with that. Was just worrying to think the mod team had changed direction to permanently remove all posts fo those they banned. I'm glad to see the few instances of that weren't intentional and that that's not what the mod team is doing.



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VAMatt said:
Ka-pi96 said:

This is something that affects the community as a whole, so regardless of their personal opinions on the matter the mods should be at least willing to hear what the community things, and that can't be done in a PM.

Well said.  It's appropriate to discuss community issues with the community, even if some people may be weirded out by it.  

But it's not appropriate to approach this the way OP did.

Instead of asking a few questions first before making the thread, he proclaimed that we are in fact doing this to censor users. Didn't specify who he was talking about, so we wouldn't know if he's referring to someone that requested it, etc.

This was actually one of the reasons the Mod Thread was closed.
It's good that this brought attention to an issue that needed to be fixed. But the OP should have been more inquisitive, than accusative.

Last edited by Hiku - on 24 October 2020

JWeinCom said:
Alright, so let me clarify a bit since I'm the mod in question here.

I was doing a ban for someone. Among other issues were some objectionable posts on their walls.

When you ban people, there's a little box that says "Delete PMs and Walls". So... thinking this would delete PMs and walls, I thought "oh, well that seems appropriate for this situation, I'll do just that".

Unbeknownst to me clicking that box actually deletes every post they've made, and apparently some posts that quote them as well.

There's a possibility that I may have used that on other users too, if this has happened before. Like, John requested a ban, so I figured he'd want his walls wiped clean too. Now that I know that clicking the box doesn't do what I thought, I won't be clicking it anymore.

So, this was not an effort to delete posts. I legitimately had no idea that was even something I could do, and was as surprised as anyone else. I think they're working on changing the way that option works so it won't be an issue in the future.

Glad to know it was an accident rather than intentional.

Also, for the record I think you're doing a good job as a mod. Accidents happen, that's fine, but generally you look like a good mod. Plus I've seen you talk about your moderations before and you seem very open and willing to explain/discuss things which is definitely a good thing.



Whew, another close call. Apparently nobody can read - they lost all mod permissions. I know why toilet paper is scarce. Not because Covid, because mods here are so full of $hit. It's weird. Go catch something contagious and leave all my followup accounts alone. Thanks.



Ka-pi96 said:
Ryuu96 said:

For the record, I will take some of the blame too, Jwein is correct that the button itself isn't clearly labelled (it says nothing about deleting forum posts) which has led to some confusion as you can see. I am the Moderator that used it most often as it was originally only set up to delete spam accounts.

So I'll take some of the blame for not making it clear to my fellow Moderators what exactly the button does and when to use it.

In the case of John, it was a simple mistake, Jwein has explained well enough himself but I don't consider it a massive one since...John did request a perm and it wasn't like a "I need a break" but a "Fuck you" so I mean...Yeah.

As I've mentioned, Talon has now restricted it to Head Mods only, which is always the way Talon intended it to be but it was created in cooperation with myself so we assume (since I wasn't Head Mod) it was accidentally open to all Moderators.

We'll make sure this doesn't happen again and hopefully improve the implementation, I will say the issue of the thread counts being messed up is a minor issue though which is automatically fixed by opening the thread a few times.

I've also had a chat with Machina & TalonMan and Talon wants to be clear that it was never intended to be used for anything other than spam accounts, so NightlyPoe for now will remain the only requested deletion and we're putting a pause on requested deletions, the reason for this is a more technical one, there's concerns expressed by Talon regarding how it works on regular users.

He also would like if such a feature existed in the future for it to be implemented better, such as letting users delete themselves and changing it from deleting posts to replacing them with "Account Deleted" but it will be a huge feature and Talon is very busy, it also honestly isn't our issue, we don't own the site.

The feature will still be used on spam accounts, that isn't changing, even if they post in threads, that is simply something you'll have to deal with, a feature to allow account deletion may return in the future but it won't be the same one we use for spam deletion.

I have emailed Jlaruo to see if he can restore John's post history.

Thanks for this.

I remembered seeing it first with John. I thought he was banned for repeated blatant racism, rather than a requested ban. I didn't care enough about the user and didn't disagree with the ban itself so never brought it up at the time. But I assumed that was the method of perma-banning people, that all of their posts would be deleted and I thought it set a bad precedent for the future. So then when I logged in yesterday and saw a thread with - posts it raised those concerns again.

I think Talon's idea for replacing posts with "account deleted" would be a much better implementation too. I'd still rather it not be done, but if it was only at user's request as you've said then I'd have no reason to complain about it.

I don't care so much about it being used on spam bots, so I can deal with that. Was just worrying to think the mod team had changed direction to permanently remove all posts fo those they banned. I'm glad to see the few instances of that weren't intentional and that that's not what the mod team is doing.

Yup, I wouldn't be comfortable with it either unless someone posted like, illegal shit. It also screws up moderation history (we no longer have the posts) which will make it harder to see exactly what someone was banned for if they decide to create an alt.

And of course there's the thread angle, the current deletion method isn't suited very well to deleting thousands of comments at once so we won't use this one anymore, the issue is technically it is against the law IIRC to not have a method of deletion but we could also say we don't own this site, we aren't Ioi, that is his responsibility...We have far more important updates to do to the site so who knows when a proper method will come.



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Hiku said:
VAMatt said:

Well said.  It's appropriate to discuss community issues with the community, even if some people may be weirded out by it.  

But it's not appropriate to approach this the way OP did.

Instead of asking us a few questions first before making the thread, he proclaimed that we are in fact doing this to censor users. Didn't specify who he was talking about, so we wouldn't know if he's referring to someone that requested it, etc.

This was actually one of the reasons the Mod Thread was closed.
It's good that this brought attention to an issue that needed to be fixed. But should have been handled in a more inquisitive manner, than accusative.

I don't see it that way.  It doesn't matter whether the OP was correct about what was happening (he was) or the reasons it was happening (it looks like he was not).  It's still an issue for all of us to be aware of.  I can see where a mod might be offended by the post.  But, I don't see a problem with an OP being offensive, unless it is intended to offended for the sake of offending. 

Also, look at the outcome here.  The issue is being addressed - mods learned that they were inadvertently doing something that caused problems, community members got an explanation (one that will stay here for people to refer to later, if needed), and efforts to come to a more permanent solution are in place.  So, I'd say the OP did a good job.  



dpsx73 said:
Whew, another close call. Apparently nobody can read - they lost all mod permissions. I know why toilet paper is scarce. Not because Covid, because mods here are so full of $hit. It's weird. Go catch something contagious and leave all my followup accounts alone. Thanks.

You were justifiably perm'd for exactly the same shit you're doing now.

Making alts isn't going to get you anywhere.



dpsx73 said:
Whew, another close call. Apparently nobody can read - they lost all mod permissions. I know why toilet paper is scarce. Not because Covid, because mods here are so full of $hit. It's weird. Go catch something contagious and leave all my followup accounts alone. Thanks.

Nah. We'll just keep banning them. There's a lot of gaming forums out there. If you can't follow the rules of this one, your time would probably better spent on one you like better. 

VAMatt said:
Hiku said:

But it's not appropriate to approach this the way OP did.

Instead of asking us a few questions first before making the thread, he proclaimed that we are in fact doing this to censor users. Didn't specify who he was talking about, so we wouldn't know if he's referring to someone that requested it, etc.

This was actually one of the reasons the Mod Thread was closed.
It's good that this brought attention to an issue that needed to be fixed. But should have been handled in a more inquisitive manner, than accusative.

I don't see it that way.  It doesn't matter whether the OP was correct about what was happening (he was) or the reasons it was happening (it looks like he was not).  It's still an issue for all of us to be aware of.  I can see where a mod might be offended by the post.  But, I don't see a problem with an OP being offensive, unless it is intended to offended for the sake of offending. 

Also, look at the outcome here.  The issue is being addressed - mods learned that they were inadvertently doing something that caused problems, community members got an explanation (one that will stay here for people to refer to later, if needed), and efforts to come to a more permanent solution are in place.  So, I'd say the OP did a good job.  

It's good that the issue was brought up, because now I know what I was doing and can avoid doing so in the future. But, that could have been accomplished by simply asking why we're deleting posts rather then asserting that there was ill intent behind it. 



Regarding DPSX, I'm working to restore his post history, even though his account history is so tiny, it was still a mistake.

John unfortunately can't be restored, I'm told the back up is only a couple weeks, I'm going to see if we can restore some of his post history from beta site at least, it won't be the entire thing but it will be up until mid-2020 at least.



VAMatt said:
Hiku said:

But it's not appropriate to approach this the way OP did.

Instead of asking us a few questions first before making the thread, he proclaimed that we are in fact doing this to censor users. Didn't specify who he was talking about, so we wouldn't know if he's referring to someone that requested it, etc.

This was actually one of the reasons the Mod Thread was closed.
It's good that this brought attention to an issue that needed to be fixed. But should have been handled in a more inquisitive manner, than accusative.

I don't see it that way.  It doesn't matter whether the OP was correct about what was happening (he was) or the reasons it was happening (it looks like he was not).  It's still an issue for all of us to be aware of.  I can see where a mod might be offended by the post.  But, I don't see a problem with an OP being offensive, unless it is intended to offended for the sake of offending. 

Also, look at the outcome here.  The issue is being addressed - mods learned that they were inadvertently doing something that caused problems, community members got an explanation (one that will stay here for people to refer to later, if needed), and efforts to come to a more permanent solution are in place.  So, I'd say the OP did a good job.  

If OP can just ask a question first to avoid spreading misinformation, then that is not too much to ask.

He could have asked if this was our policy for perma bans before making the thread.
We would have had the same outcome, without the misinformation, and probably without Kirby joining in with some story about 2 mods that supposedly quit because it was a 'shit job' (still want to know who these 2 are because only Amy left since I joined, and she didn't even tell anyone why to our knowledge.)

Another issue is what this thread could have looked like if mods weren't online and responded when they did. And JWein wasn't online for a few hours. And he was the one we needed to talk to. So we were trying to reach out to him ASAP.
And for all we know, he could have been offline for another 24 hours.

This was easily avoidable if OP had just asked a question first. So yes, absolutely do that first next time. Otherwise the thread may just get locked immediately, and the community may not learn about the situation as a result.

Last edited by Hiku - on 24 October 2020