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Forums - Sony Discussion - Spider-Man: Miles Morales, Horizon Forbidden West, and Sackboy confirmed cross-gen

goopy20 said:
Intrinsic said:

No doubt, there is a "leap there", but does it look generationally better than say GOW or TLOU2? 

Now take that a step further and think about what the best looking games next-gen consoles would look like. When more games start using quixel type photogrammetry textures we would literally be at a point where we have photorealism. And that's going to happen in this up coming-gen. You can't really get much better than that.

I mean, just look at what was achieved on a 1.8TF console then imagine what they can do with a 10TF console. And then imagine what they would do with 10 - 12TF consoles. By the 10th gen, we aren't going to be looking at another resolution tax, yes, we aren't going to be pushing 8K games, the focus would instead be on things like 4K 120fps. 

I think that can be considered a true generation leap. Games like GOW, TLOU2 already look amazing, but I feel like developers always have to make concessions. Either a game is super detailed with small scale environments or we get open world with bland graphics. Next gen, I'm expecting to see those two things blend in more, resulting in more interesting level design and new experiences. The UE5 showed that off nicely with typical small scale, detailed environments and then flying over it at an epic scale with the same kind of detail.

Also, if you look at RT, a RTX3090 was pushed to its limits running that marbles path tracing demo in 1440p/30fps. It going to be a while before we'll see full blown games on consoles with path tracing. Another thing that I think can improve a lot is VR. It's already quite amazing but if they can make the glasses smaller/ wireless and figure out some work around for motion sickness and have amazing graphics, the potential is insane. Here's a prototype of what VR glasses will probably look like in the near future.

Imo all those things are way more exciting than just 120fps/4k or Cloud gaming on phones. I'm already playing some games in 120fps and I honestly don't see that much of a difference. 

Horizon: Forbidden West already looks a cut above most games and thats a cross gen game. Demon's Souls remake looks great and thats a launch title. I'm sure God of War: Ragnorok will be the game that will blow people away. But Idd, stuff like TLOU 2 and GOT are already in a league of their own.

Its always like this every gen, wait a few years and the games will really showcase the potential of the hardware.

Last edited by hinch - on 20 September 2020

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hinch said:
goopy20 said:

I think that can be considered a true generation leap. Games like GOW, TLOU2 already look amazing, but I feel like developers always have to make concessions. Either a game is super detailed with small scale environments or we get open world with bland graphics. Next gen, I'm expecting to see those two things blend in more, resulting in more interesting level design and new experiences. The UE5 showed that off nicely with typical small scale, detailed environments and then flying over it at an epic scale with the same kind of detail.

Also, if you look at RT, a RTX3090 was pushed to its limits running that marbles path tracing demo in 1440p/30fps. It going to be a while before we'll see full blown games on consoles with path tracing. Another thing that I think can improve a lot is VR. It's already quite amazing but if they can make the glasses smaller/ wireless and figure out some work around for motion sickness and have amazing graphics, the potential is insane. Here's a prototype of what VR glasses will probably look like in the near future.

Imo all those things are way more exciting than just 120fps/4k or Cloud gaming on phones. I'm already playing some games in 120fps and I honestly don't see that much of a difference. 

Horizon: Forbidden West already looks a cut above most games and thats a cross gen game. Demon's Souls remake looks great and thats a launch title. I'm sure God of War: Ragnorok will be the game that will blow people away. But Idd, stuff like TLOU 2 and GOT are already in a league of their own.

Its always like this every gen, wait a few years and the games will really showcase the potential of the machine.

Yeah that's probably true. Maybe I have too high expectation but I honestly think we'll see a bigger jump next gen then from ps3 to ps4. We need to keep in mind that the games we've been playing for the past 7 years were heavily cpu bound because of the crappy jaguar cpu. Hell, in some cases the Cell in the ps3 is more capable than what we have now.

It's just a shame that we don't have a couple of those graphical showcase launch titles. Sure, Ryze, Killzone and Infamous weren't the best of games, but they sure were pretty at the time. Ratchet & Clank seems to feel the most next gen from what I've seen. It looks great but well.. its Ratchet and Clank lol



Qwark said:
Oh well it seems at least the PS5 will have a few games which can run in 2160p/60fps. Those will probably also be the last ones on PS5 to do that, excluding small AA games or smaller and remasters of course.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

hinch said:

Horizon: Forbidden West already looks a cut above most games and thats a cross gen game. Demon's Souls remake looks great and thats a launch title. I'm sure God of War: Ragnorok will be the game that will blow people away. But Idd, stuff like TLOU 2 and GOT are already in a league of their own.

Its always like this every gen, wait a few years and the games will really showcase the potential of the hardware.

Not saying there isn't a leap, or that what we et this gen won't blow minds. Just saying, that come next-next-gen, things aren't going to be mind-blowing all over again. There really is only so far you can push things.



Well lets wait for Naughty Dog's next game, lol. If they can't impress everyone with their games visually, I doubt any other dev can :P And other stuff down the line.. Well the UE5 demo was impressive and I think will be indicative of whats to come a few years in.



hinch said:

Well lets wait for Naughty Dog's next game, lol. If they can't impress everyone with their games visually, I doubt any other dev can :P And other stuff down the line.. Well the UE5 demo was impressive and I think will be indicative of whats to come a few years in.

No need. God of War will drop jaws once again. and thats 2021..........hopefully.



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goopy20 said:
DonFerrari said:

I actually like the idea of they lauching the game near console launch that means they had a lot of time to learn the console on the first game so they can launch one or two games after fully understanding the console.

Having two versions don`t mean they will or won`t release simultaneously.

Your feeling is quite wrong, as we already know Series S is a thing for like 6 months, so Sony also knew when they first revealed the console so they didn`t made a decision to change those 3 games to be crossgen because of Series S being confirmed. As was posted on the site, HFW was being worked on PS4 already from the start and them moved to be a PS5 title as well. Miles Morales is on a PS4 engine with improvements so no reason to think it wouldn`t be crossgen. Sackboy well it looks more like a PS4 game than even a crossgen. So nothing on that was changed to be a PS4 as well.

MS didn`t figured it was a terrible idea. It is more like they always knew only a handful of games would be ready to release by 2021, and the only noteworthy one was Halo. And that one was being worked for like 5 years with most of the time X1 being the baseline. I would say it was more like MS was trying to get the best PR possible with what they had.

Gears Tactics I cross out of the list because it is already release on PC, so they are just holding the console version to release together with Series on launch. And well Grounded would be similar case. Psychonauts I don`t think is a game that would benefit from being only nextgen (Grounded would be the same I guess). The other games don`t have a release date so it can`t be said if they would fall or not inside the timeline MS committed to crossgen so for now it can`t be said anything about them.

I don`t think they are doing the opposite. MS case would be quite easy to solve, instead of saying 100% for the next 2 years they could say just what Sony said this week "we will keep supporting the console for the next couple years (in sony case 3-4 years)" and even say "we will launch crossgen games" or even use "some of our best games to be launched on the next couple years will be crossgen". All those would have generated much less flack than what they said, and also wouldn`t be countered by they making a full nextgen game on that window.

Sony case they didn`t say they wouldn`t have crossgen. They said they believe in gen and also that they wanted fast transition, neither means no crossgen.

You were plenty surprised and satisfied by SM:MM and HFW when it wasn`t said they would be crossgen, did they graphics became magically worse after the reveal? If not, if the game release just as or better than when they were announced would that satisfy you?

Well we couldn't really tell what Spider Man looks like until they showed clear gameplay. Don't get me wrong, I watched the gameplay footage in 4k and it is an amazing looking game. It's just that it doesn't look all that different from the ps4 pro version. That's the thing really. We haven't seen much true next gen footage at all, making it hard to compare things.

HFW did look a clear step up from HZD and if the game ends up looking the trailer, I ain't complaining. I'm just afraid that it will look seriously downgraded in the end. Maybe, I'm completely wrong. But if so, then I wonder why they didn't show any new gameplay footage. 

I'm still getting a ps5 and upgrade my pc. But I have to say, the buildup for next gen has been quite underwhelming. I expected a next gen FF to blow my socks off but my socks remained firmly on when they showed it :(

Please don't be disengenuous or backpedal on what you said when you were giving MS fans a hard time. With just couple of screen capture you were already declaring it looked next-gen and used the comparison to PS4 version of Spider-Man. The latest video was much much much better than the one on the reveal, but for some reason now it doesn't look next gen. The only change was that they confirmed it is crossgen. So basically your brain is processing the same image worse now that it was said to be crossgen?

Of course you are wrong. We haven`t had any real case of dowgraded game on Sony exclusives since perhaps the trailers on PS3 reveal. Everything from there until now was at most exchanges of one aspect to other (like the ligh and reflection on Spider Man PS4). Time is limited, most titles showed on the reveal weren`t showed on the latest show. From top of memory only two launch titles were showed twice, Demon`s Souls and Spider Man Miles Morales. Plenty of other release titles weren`t show and I only remember of REVIII being a not launch title that was showed twice. Not sure why you think you would see a downgrade in a month or two because they now said it will be crossgen, you can bet it was already crossgen before. You are just making small sand grains into everest mountains.

I`m plenty happy with what nextgen have been showing so far. And FF is probably years away while looking at FFVIIR they were top notch graphically. FF never let me down on graphic side so I`m not worried about FFXVI yet.



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DonFerrari said:
goopy20 said:

Well we couldn't really tell what Spider Man looks like until they showed clear gameplay. Don't get me wrong, I watched the gameplay footage in 4k and it is an amazing looking game. It's just that it doesn't look all that different from the ps4 pro version. That's the thing really. We haven't seen much true next gen footage at all, making it hard to compare things.

HFW did look a clear step up from HZD and if the game ends up looking the trailer, I ain't complaining. I'm just afraid that it will look seriously downgraded in the end. Maybe, I'm completely wrong. But if so, then I wonder why they didn't show any new gameplay footage. 

I'm still getting a ps5 and upgrade my pc. But I have to say, the buildup for next gen has been quite underwhelming. I expected a next gen FF to blow my socks off but my socks remained firmly on when they showed it :(

Please don't be disengenuous or backpedal on what you said when you were giving MS fans a hard time. With just couple of screen capture you were already declaring it looked next-gen and used the comparison to PS4 version of Spider-Man. The latest video was much much much better than the one on the reveal, but for some reason now it doesn't look next gen. The only change was that they confirmed it is crossgen. So basically your brain is processing the same image worse now that it was said to be crossgen?

Of course you are wrong. We haven`t had any real case of dowgraded game on Sony exclusives since perhaps the trailers on PS3 reveal. Everything from there until now was at most exchanges of one aspect to other (like the ligh and reflection on Spider Man PS4). Time is limited, most titles showed on the reveal weren`t showed on the latest show. From top of memory only two launch titles were showed twice, Demon`s Souls and Spider Man Miles Morales. Plenty of other release titles weren`t show and I only remember of REVIII being a not launch title that was showed twice. Not sure why you think you would see a downgrade in a month or two because they now said it will be crossgen, you can bet it was already crossgen before. You are just making small sand grains into everest mountains.

I`m plenty happy with what nextgen have been showing so far. And FF is probably years away while looking at FFVIIR they were top notch graphically. FF never let me down on graphic side so I`m not worried about FFXVI yet.

Not really man. We knew it was running on the old engine and same assets and we didn't get a good look last time. Some said it was just a DLC that should also be on ps4, and I was under the impression that - while it was using the old engine - they made it exclusive so they could push the engine much further.  For example, I was expecting a higher sense of speed, better animations, better character models and an overall denser world with more asset variation. But imo it ended up looking on par with Spider Man on ps4 pro.

It still looks great but just not the generational leap I was hoping for. I dunno, I guess I'm just a bit disappointed that we don't have a couple of launch titles like the Order 1886, Ryze, Killzone SF. Even if those games didn't really deliver, they at least gave us a peak of what these new consoles could do early on. I still feel that any game that's pushing 4k/60fps isn't going to look like a true generational leap, especially for those who are still rocking a HD tv.



goopy20 said:
DonFerrari said:

Please don't be disengenuous or backpedal on what you said when you were giving MS fans a hard time. With just couple of screen capture you were already declaring it looked next-gen and used the comparison to PS4 version of Spider-Man. The latest video was much much much better than the one on the reveal, but for some reason now it doesn't look next gen. The only change was that they confirmed it is crossgen. So basically your brain is processing the same image worse now that it was said to be crossgen?

Of course you are wrong. We haven`t had any real case of dowgraded game on Sony exclusives since perhaps the trailers on PS3 reveal. Everything from there until now was at most exchanges of one aspect to other (like the ligh and reflection on Spider Man PS4). Time is limited, most titles showed on the reveal weren`t showed on the latest show. From top of memory only two launch titles were showed twice, Demon`s Souls and Spider Man Miles Morales. Plenty of other release titles weren`t show and I only remember of REVIII being a not launch title that was showed twice. Not sure why you think you would see a downgrade in a month or two because they now said it will be crossgen, you can bet it was already crossgen before. You are just making small sand grains into everest mountains.

I`m plenty happy with what nextgen have been showing so far. And FF is probably years away while looking at FFVIIR they were top notch graphically. FF never let me down on graphic side so I`m not worried about FFXVI yet.

Not really man. We knew it was running on the old engine and same assets and we didn't get a good look last time. Some said it was just a DLC that should also be on ps4, and I was under the impression that - while it was using the old engine - they made it exclusive so they could push the engine much further.  For example, I was expecting a higher sense of speed, better animations, better character models and an overall denser world with more asset variation. But imo it ended up looking on par with Spider Man on ps4 pro.

It still looks great but just not the generational leap I was hoping for. I dunno, I guess I'm just a bit disappointed that we don't have a couple of launch titles like the Order 1886, Ryze, Killzone SF. Even if those games didn't really deliver, they at least gave us a peak of what these new consoles could do early on. I still feel that any game that's pushing 4k/60fps isn't going to look like a true generational leap, especially for those who are still rocking a HD tv.

Go back to read your own posts them. You were heavily criticized by MS fanbase for saying Spider-Man looked totally next-gen. You weren`t in the sligthest saying you expected it or that the demo was underwhelming but would be better because they would focus on PS5. You said that the way it was it already looked next-gen period. I was along the ones that said there was no technical reason to not be crossgen since the game was based on the assets and engine of the original and they could make the PS4 version with that while using the enhancements of assets and engine on PS5. And while the first trailer for me it looked like PS4 game with a little better ilumination the new trailer is leaps and bounds better than it. It is possible to see RTX in action, particle effects, smooth, speed, transition. You name it.

Anyone that is using a 1080p TV expecting the cutting edge graphical leap is likely on the wrong side of the expectations. And Sony won`t really focus on 60fps, that is not their focus in most of their games. TLOU2 was near 4k and look almost a gen ahead of most other gen 8 games. So you are just frustrated by it being named crossgen not by what you seem. Because the HFW didn`t render differently when you watch knowing it is crossgen, you are just trying to justify internally that it must look worse because now you know it is crossgen. Like if it was an optical illusion.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."