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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Apple removes Fortnite from app store, cant connect to servers. Epic Games Sues.

Is Nintendo monopolistic for charging developers 30% over eShop sales? eShop is the only option on the Switch after, worse, unlike iOS, the Switch remains unchallenged by an Android-like competitor in the handheld-gaming space (and crushing competitors in the console space but that's irrelevant for the sake of this topic now )



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LurkerJ said:

Is Nintendo monopolistic for charging developers 30% over eShop sales? eShop is the only option on the Switch after, worse, unlike iOS, the Switch remains unchallenged by an Android-like competitor in the handheld-gaming space (and crushing competitors in the console space but that's irrelevant for the sake of this topic now )

Nintendo's overall marketshare for games is too small relatively speaking. Also, iOS is a multi-function OS, so it encompasses everything from Productivity apps to leasure software.



padib said:
LurkerJ said:

Is Nintendo monopolistic for charging developers 30% over eShop sales? eShop is the only option on the Switch after, worse, unlike iOS, the Switch remains unchallenged by an Android-like competitor in the handheld-gaming space (and crushing competitors in the console space but that's irrelevant for the sake of this topic now )

Nintendo's overall marketshare for games is too small relatively speaking. Also, iOS is a multi-function OS, so it encompasses everything from Productivity apps to leasure software.

In other words, you're drawing lines where it's convenient for you to draw them?

If anything, the fact that iOS allows you to do a lot more than just gaming and without charging the consumers or the developers most of the time, makes iOS a lot friendlier environment to developers than eShop.

  • Apps that are free to you aren’t charged by Apple.
  • Apps that earn revenue exclusively through advertising — like free games & Youtube — aren’t charged by Apple.
  • App business transactions where users sign up or purchase digital goods outside the app aren’t charged by Apple (including Spotify).
  • Apps that sell physical goods — including ride-hailing and food delivery services, to name a few — aren’t charged by Apple
  • 84 percent of the apps in the App Store pay nothing to Apple when you download or use the app

And again, this laser-focus criticism of Apple when they only have less than 25% market share globally makes no sense whatsoever.

To clarify, I don't believe the Switch is a monopoly for creating the sole exciting handheld environment that devs profit from, because that environment wouldn't have existed without their product in the first place. 



LurkerJ said:

In other words, you're drawing lines where it's convenient for you to draw them?

If anything, the fact that iOS allows you to do a lot more than just gaming and without charging the consumers or the developers most of the time, makes iOS a lot friendlier environment to developers than eShop.

  • Apps that are free to you aren’t charged by Apple.
  • Apps that earn revenue exclusively through advertising — like free games & Youtube — aren’t charged by Apple.
  • App business transactions where users sign up or purchase digital goods outside the app aren’t charged by Apple (including Spotify).
  • Apps that sell physical goods — including ride-hailing and food delivery services, to name a few — aren’t charged by Apple
  • 84 percent of the apps in the App Store pay nothing to Apple when you download or use the app

And again, this laser-focus criticism of Apple when they only have less than 25% market share globally makes no sense whatsoever. And to clarify, I don't believe the Switch is a monopoly for creating the sole exciting handheld environment that devs profit from, because that environment wouldn't have existed without their product in the first place. 

Stop this garbage talk about subjectivity, I'm being respectful to you.

There are many more options than the Switch for gaming. For smartdevice computing, depending on the region, Apple has a very big marketshare, which should concern you.

The rules you listed are true today, but they are dictated by a company that has too much power at the moment, shared with only one rival: Google.

And no surprise that Google is also being watched for monopolistic practices in the way it buys out and kills competition, among other things. Apple is also currently under an anti-trust hearing, along with Amazon and Facebook.



padib said:
LurkerJ said:

In other words, you're drawing lines where it's convenient for you to draw them?

If anything, the fact that iOS allows you to do a lot more than just gaming and without charging the consumers or the developers most of the time, makes iOS a lot friendlier environment to developers than eShop.

  • Apps that are free to you aren’t charged by Apple.
  • Apps that earn revenue exclusively through advertising — like free games & Youtube — aren’t charged by Apple.
  • App business transactions where users sign up or purchase digital goods outside the app aren’t charged by Apple (including Spotify).
  • Apps that sell physical goods — including ride-hailing and food delivery services, to name a few — aren’t charged by Apple
  • 84 percent of the apps in the App Store pay nothing to Apple when you download or use the app

And again, this laser-focus criticism of Apple when they only have less than 25% market share globally makes no sense whatsoever. And to clarify, I don't believe the Switch is a monopoly for creating the sole exciting handheld environment that devs profit from, because that environment wouldn't have existed without their product in the first place. 

Stop this garbage talk about subjectivity, I'm being respectful to you.

There are many more options than the Switch for gaming. For smartdevice computing, depending on the region, Apple has a very big marketshare, which should concern you.

The rules you listed are true today, but they are dictated by a company that has too much power at the moment, shared with only one rival: Google.

And no surprise that Google is also being watched for monopolistic practices in the way it buys out and kills competition, among other things. Apple is also currently under an anti-trust hearing, along with Amazon and Facebook.

I'd say this is a bigger issue.

The marketshare really isn't that bad when it's been earned. And while I personally think Apple products are pretty bad and I'm astounded that people actually buy them in such large numbers, other people do seem to like them a lot so they have earned that marketshare.

Actively removing or buying out potential competition however, that's pretty worrying. It really is quite crazy how many big hardware/software products are owned by such a small group of companies.



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padib said:
LurkerJ said:

In other words, you're drawing lines where it's convenient for you to draw them?

If anything, the fact that iOS allows you to do a lot more than just gaming and without charging the consumers or the developers most of the time, makes iOS a lot friendlier environment to developers than eShop.

  • Apps that are free to you aren’t charged by Apple.
  • Apps that earn revenue exclusively through advertising — like free games & Youtube — aren’t charged by Apple.
  • App business transactions where users sign up or purchase digital goods outside the app aren’t charged by Apple (including Spotify).
  • Apps that sell physical goods — including ride-hailing and food delivery services, to name a few — aren’t charged by Apple
  • 84 percent of the apps in the App Store pay nothing to Apple when you download or use the app

And again, this laser-focus criticism of Apple when they only have less than 25% market share globally makes no sense whatsoever. And to clarify, I don't believe the Switch is a monopoly for creating the sole exciting handheld environment that devs profit from, because that environment wouldn't have existed without their product in the first place. 

Stop this garbage talk about subjectivity, I'm being respectful to you. 

There are many more options than the Switch for gaming. For smartdevice computing, depending on the region, Apple has a very big marketshare, which should concern you.

The rules you listed are true today, but they are dictated by a company that has too much power at the moment, shared with only one rival: Google.

And no surprise that Google is also being watched for monopolistic practices in the way it buys out and kills competition, among other things. Apple is also currently under an anti-trust hearing, along with Amazon and Facebook.

Garbage talk about subjectivity? wat. 

"I am being respectful to you"? wat.

Are you really gonna act offended when my post is completely free of insults or condescending behaviors? Jeez.

Back to the topic at hand: 

"Marketshare by region" and "mobile smartphone computing" are just lines you draw to dictate the rules of what classifies what products can be classified as a monopoly and what products don't. 

Again, what other options do have if you want to do "mobile handheld gaming" besides the Switch? What are these "many more options" ?

Last edited by LurkerJ - on 25 August 2020

LurkerJ said:

Garbage talk about subjectivity? wat. 

"I am being respectful to you"? wat.

Are you really gonna act offended when my post is completely free of insults or condescending behaviors? Jeez.

Back to the topic at hand: 

"Marketshare by region" and "mobile smartphone computing" are just lines you draw to dictate the rules of what classifies what products can be classified as a monopoly and what products don't. Not to mention, iPhone's market share i

Again, what other options do have if you want to do "mobile handheld gaming" besides the Switch? What are these "many more options" ?

How about an iphone?

You can argue it's not as high quality, but it does still allow you to game using a handheld system that's very much mobile. Just because it's not primarily a gaming console doesn't mean it can't be used for games.



Ka-pi96 said:
LurkerJ said:

Garbage talk about subjectivity? wat. 

"I am being respectful to you"? wat.

Are you really gonna act offended when my post is completely free of insults or condescending behaviors? Jeez.

Back to the topic at hand: 

"Marketshare by region" and "mobile smartphone computing" are just lines you draw to dictate the rules of what classifies what products can be classified as a monopoly and what products don't. Not to mention, iPhone's market share i

Again, what other options do have if you want to do "mobile handheld gaming" besides the Switch? What are these "many more options" ?

How about an iphone?

You can argue it's not as high quality, but it does still allow you to game using a handheld system that's very much mobile. Just because it's not primarily a gaming console doesn't mean it can't be used for games.

I am only drawing the lines to shape my arguments using the same logic followed by Apple's detractors. I don't actually believe eShop is a monopoly, I am intentionally painting the Switch as a monopolistic product by being dense & twisting logic. 

Oh, and Apple just wishes they were competing with Nintendo in the handheld space, no developer dares to ask for 60 dollars for a game on iOS  



padib said:
LurkerJ said:

In other words, you're drawing lines where it's convenient for you to draw them?

If anything, the fact that iOS allows you to do a lot more than just gaming and without charging the consumers or the developers most of the time, makes iOS a lot friendlier environment to developers than eShop.

  • Apps that are free to you aren’t charged by Apple.
  • Apps that earn revenue exclusively through advertising — like free games & Youtube — aren’t charged by Apple.
  • App business transactions where users sign up or purchase digital goods outside the app aren’t charged by Apple (including Spotify).
  • Apps that sell physical goods — including ride-hailing and food delivery services, to name a few — aren’t charged by Apple
  • 84 percent of the apps in the App Store pay nothing to Apple when you download or use the app

And again, this laser-focus criticism of Apple when they only have less than 25% market share globally makes no sense whatsoever. And to clarify, I don't believe the Switch is a monopoly for creating the sole exciting handheld environment that devs profit from, because that environment wouldn't have existed without their product in the first place. 

Stop this garbage talk about subjectivity, I'm being respectful to you.

There are many more options than the Switch for gaming. For smartdevice computing, depending on the region, Apple has a very big marketshare, which should concern you.

The rules you listed are true today, but they are dictated by a company that has too much power at the moment, shared with only one rival: Google.

And no surprise that Google is also being watched for monopolistic practices in the way it buys out and kills competition, among other things. Apple is also currently under an anti-trust hearing, along with Amazon and Facebook.

No, padib. There's only Switch for handheld gaming. Nintendo owns pretty much 100% of the market. But if you insist on your logic that there are many more options than Switch (which would then be PlayStation, Xbox, PC, smartphones, tablets etc.), then the same has to apply the other way around for Apple's store that houses games in addition to all sorts of other apps. Apple doesn't control the game market, heck, they are not even remotely close within their own segment of mobile gaming where iOS has a marketshare of ~25%.

Did you know that every iPhone user can open Safari and buy Fortnite microtransactions directly from Epic's site without Apple getting a cut from the transaction? That is allowed by Apple. What Epic insists on with their lawsuit is that they are supposed to get direct access to the market that Apple built without having to compensate Apple for it in any form.

Epic's case against Google is very similar. Epic had pulled Fortnite from the Google Play store in 2019 to provide it only through their own store on Android, but then in 2020 Epic brought Fortnite back to Google Play. The issue that Epic has is that they want direct access to the market that Google built without having to compensate Google for it in any form.

Going further with this, you have to ask yourself why Epic didn't target Nintendo, PS and Xbox yet, because all console manufacturers' ecosystems are even more closed than iOS. The reason why Epic didn't do it is because a core part of their strategy is to instrumentalize gamers to pressure other big companies into giving in to their demands. But what would happen if Epic tried to turn console gamers against console manufacturers over their free-to-play game; do you think console gamers would side with Epic on this? The answer is obvious, hence why Epic's way of how they go about all of this is so laughably inconsistent and full of holes.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Shipments

RolStoppable said:
padib said:

Stop this garbage talk about subjectivity, I'm being respectful to you.

There are many more options than the Switch for gaming. For smartdevice computing, depending on the region, Apple has a very big marketshare, which should concern you.

The rules you listed are true today, but they are dictated by a company that has too much power at the moment, shared with only one rival: Google.

And no surprise that Google is also being watched for monopolistic practices in the way it buys out and kills competition, among other things. Apple is also currently under an anti-trust hearing, along with Amazon and Facebook.

No, padib. There's only Switch for handheld gaming. Nintendo owns pretty much 100% of the market. But if you insist on your logic that there are many more options than Switch (which would then be PlayStation, Xbox, PC, smartphones, tablets etc.), then the same has to apply the other way around for Apple's store that houses games in addition to all sorts of other apps. Apple doesn't control the game market, heck, they are not even remotely close within their own segment of mobile gaming where iOS has a marketshare of ~25%.

Did you know that every iPhone user can open Safari and buy Fortnite microtransactions directly from Epic's site without Apple getting a cut from the transaction? That is allowed by Apple. What Epic insists on with their lawsuit is that they are supposed to get direct access to the market that Apple built without having to compensate Apple for it in any form.

Epic's case against Google is very similar. Epic had pulled Fortnite from the Google Play store in 2019 to provide it only through their own store on Android, but then in 2020 Epic brought Fortnite back to Google Play. The issue that Epic has is that they want direct access to the market that Google built without having to compensate Google for it in any form.

Going further with this, you have to ask yourself why Epic didn't target Nintendo, PS and Xbox yet, because all console manufacturers' ecosystems are even more closed than iOS. The reason why Epic didn't do it is because a core part of their strategy is to instrumentalize gamers to pressure other big companies into giving in to their demands. But what would happen if Epic tried to turn console gamers against console manufacturers over their free-to-play game; do you think console gamers would side with Epic on this? The answer is obvious, hence why Epic's way of how they go about all of this is so laughably inconsistent and full of holes.

You're wrong Rol about the first part. While there are many options for gaming on the go (including on Smartphones), there are only a few options for handheld computing, two to be exact at the OS level.

As for everything you're saying against Epic, I mean I thought I made it clear that their case is garbage. Isn't that my point anyway?

Their strawman argument only gives more legitimacy to Apple, who, apart from this flimsy case by Epic, is moving towards monopoly territory. You should be concerned about it.

@LurkerJ, who said anything about being offended? I just asked you to stop that's all.