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Forums - General Discussion - Should schools reopen?

 

Should schools reopen?

Yes 9 13.04%
 
Yes but blended model 12 17.39%
 
No 48 69.57%
 
Total:69
IcaroRibeiro said:
VAMatt said:
Education is critically important, so we should get government totally out of it. Then, individual schools, students, and parents can make the decisions that are right for them.

With that said, and since we do have government involved, I think schools should be open and parents and students should decide if they want to go the normal way, or a hybrid system.

The problem of "let everyone decide by themselves" mindset is that you ignore (or just don't care) how much your decisions impact community. It's a straight-up derivative liberal philosophy that emerged with Adam Smith's (pretty outdated  even in economics) idea of "what is better for the individual, is better for the group" 

When half of population practices social distance and half don't, the half that practices are hurted by the ones who choose not. We will stay in our homes for longer, the disease will spread faster, meaning more costs, more deaths, until health system is saturated enough to make government starts another lockdown

As much China has a severe restriction of their citizens lives, we can see how a deep and mandatory lockdown extinguished the virus in a country of more than 1 billion inhabitants in less than 2 months

Sure we may not be as radical as China, but I'm totally here for some restrictions of individual freedom for the society well being. I don't understand why Americans see the concept of "freedom" as the most absolute, indisputable and non-negotiable value of human dignity. Yes freedom over your own (and the people around you) security and health. Freedom over the possibility to escape this pandemic as soon as possible.

That's because many Americans don't understand the concept of freedom. It's hard to understand somebody when they're using words incorrectly.



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JRPGfan said:

Yep, over 2,3m active known cases.

Alot of american's dont have fear at all of it.
They think wearing a mask if worse, than the risk of getting covid/useing masks to reduce spread.

They still say that "99% of people are fine".

Reality is:
54% of all covid patients have lasting lunge damage.
76% of all covid patients have lasting heart damage (germany study resently published claims this)
(theres brain damage, testicle damage, kidney damage.. ect. Even if you get "well" again, you could have issues a few years down the road)

1% of that die (those that arn't "fine" but dead), out of 330 million people, is alot of dead people.

This is a very positivist reasoning. If you confront these people and ask "are you willing to kill 0,5% of random people in your country and cause a damage in the respiratory system of other 5% if everyone have the opportunity to stay doing their business as usual?" I'm sure most of people will say they aren't

There is, however, some kind of cognitive disconnection here that prevents people to understand their acting and decisions are leading to this scenario



S.Peelman said:

Got to say I’m with NightlyPoe on this one. Education over the internet is not effective, and children are damaged more by not going to school and having their much needed regularity than they are at risk from this virus. Also, there’s opening schools and “opening schools”. You don’t have to reopen schools and have it be the free-for-all madhouse it usually is. It is possible to regulate where which children are when, have teachers keep their distance and do a little crowd control if you are creative. That’s how they did it here anyway.

Its not effective because none of the schools were setup to use it at short notice.  I have been teaching online classes for over 6 years and the technology is way more advanced then current schools were using since it was basically zoom meet ups.  The thing is we have enough time to invest in those online tech to make remote classes almost as good as being in the classroom.  I will say with my years of experience that the gold standard will always be in classroom teaching but we do have the tech to make remote a very viable and solid solution definitely during this time.

As for this children are damaged by not going to school, I highly doubt not going to school for half a year or better is suddenly going to damage your child.  Kids are not porcelain dolls where they break so easily, if anything children learn to adapt far quicker and better than adults.  You really cannot regulate kids to wear a mask for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week.  Even if you could if the virus is airborne then it really only takes one child saturating the air sitting in spot for a long period of time to infect everyone.  Those kids rotate from classroom to classroom and one child can effectively infect the majority of students.  Parents send their child to school all the time sick.  Some with mild symptoms some with more depending if they need to go to work. In poor neighborhoods it will be a blood bath as most of those schools are already pretty crowded in class size already.  



Rab said:

What's wrong with online remote learning anyway if it is set up well? Adapt

Remote places in Australia have been doing it for generations (School of the Air), with educational outcomes as good or better than in-class lessons

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_of_the_Air

There is really nothing wrong with it.  The problem is that the US is so far behind the tech curve when it comes to schools that its not even funny.  I have taught online software development course for over 6 years and the tech now is so good you can pretty much simulated a live classroom.  The problem is that the US spends the majority of its budget on its military and basically nothing compared to other nations on their education system.  Hell, most teachers have to use their own money to purchase supplies for their classrooms for user outside tools for homework and other stuff because the schools are so underfunded.  



As someone going back to school in person and feels horrible about doing it, no they shouldnt.



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Machiavellian said:

Its not effective because none of the schools were setup to use it at short notice.  I have been teaching online classes for over 6 years and the technology is way more advanced then current schools were using since it was basically zoom meet ups.  The thing is we have enough time to invest in those online tech to make remote classes almost as good as being in the classroom.  I will say with my years of experience that the gold standard will always be in classroom teaching but we do have the tech to make remote a very viable and solid solution definitely during this time.

As for this children are damaged by not going to school, I highly doubt not going to school for half a year or better is suddenly going to damage your child.  Kids are not porcelain dolls where they break so easily, if anything children learn to adapt far quicker and better than adults.  You really cannot regulate kids to wear a mask for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week.  Even if you could if the virus is airborne then it really only takes one child saturating the air sitting in spot for a long period of time to infect everyone.  Those kids rotate from classroom to classroom and one child can effectively infect the majority of students.  Parents send their child to school all the time sick.  Some with mild symptoms some with more depending if they need to go to work. In poor neighborhoods it will be a blood bath as most of those schools are already pretty crowded in class size already.  

Hopefully they can improve online schooling here since the back to school measures all look hopelessly ineffective. (Canada)

My kids have been home since March and it is definitely effecting them. Home schooling was a pita since no one was prepared and it consisted of the teacher emailing some badly scanned text book pages with a PDF file of things to do during the week while providing access to Lexia, Prodigy, IXL, Bright space and Zoom which all had their own issues and problems to use.

Zoom meetings were nothing more than "Can you see me" "Can you hear me" "A dropped out again" "Can't hear B" "Where did C go"
Uploading work was a nightmare, feedback was non existent, materials were obviously missing and you couldn't go to the store to get stuff. Plus all those programs had their own login issues. They were also a mix of too easy and stuff the kids didn't know yet which led to lots of frustration and tears (8 and 10 year old)

All it did was turn my kids 100% against online learning, which turned into open rebellion and giving up 2 weeks before the end of the school year. Not worth the fight every day. In fact nearly all kids dropped out, many far sooner.

Since we're building up to a second wave for September / October I have little faith in the new school year :(



SvennoJ said:
Machiavellian said:

Its not effective because none of the schools were setup to use it at short notice.  I have been teaching online classes for over 6 years and the technology is way more advanced then current schools were using since it was basically zoom meet ups.  The thing is we have enough time to invest in those online tech to make remote classes almost as good as being in the classroom.  I will say with my years of experience that the gold standard will always be in classroom teaching but we do have the tech to make remote a very viable and solid solution definitely during this time.

As for this children are damaged by not going to school, I highly doubt not going to school for half a year or better is suddenly going to damage your child.  Kids are not porcelain dolls where they break so easily, if anything children learn to adapt far quicker and better than adults.  You really cannot regulate kids to wear a mask for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week.  Even if you could if the virus is airborne then it really only takes one child saturating the air sitting in spot for a long period of time to infect everyone.  Those kids rotate from classroom to classroom and one child can effectively infect the majority of students.  Parents send their child to school all the time sick.  Some with mild symptoms some with more depending if they need to go to work. In poor neighborhoods it will be a blood bath as most of those schools are already pretty crowded in class size already.  

Hopefully they can improve online schooling here since the back to school measures all look hopelessly ineffective. (Canada)

My kids have been home since March and it is definitely effecting them. Home schooling was a pita since no one was prepared and it consisted of the teacher emailing some badly scanned text book pages with a PDF file of things to do during the week while providing access to Lexia, Prodigy, IXL, Bright space and Zoom which all had their own issues and problems to use.

Zoom meetings were nothing more than "Can you see me" "Can you hear me" "A dropped out again" "Can't hear B" "Where did C go"
Uploading work was a nightmare, feedback was non existent, materials were obviously missing and you couldn't go to the store to get stuff. Plus all those programs had their own login issues. They were also a mix of too easy and stuff the kids didn't know yet which led to lots of frustration and tears (8 and 10 year old)

All it did was turn my kids 100% against online learning, which turned into open rebellion and giving up 2 weeks before the end of the school year. Not worth the fight every day. In fact nearly all kids dropped out, many far sooner.

Since we're building up to a second wave for September / October I have little faith in the new school year :(

I agree those online system are junk and probably something we did 7 years ago.  Instead the tools I use for teaching online actually have virtual desk on cloud servers where you can log into your machine at anytime anywhere.  The teacher have full view of all the desktops and can jump in remotely to help individual students when needed.  Also the tool allowed the teacher to break out students into groups of one to many depending on the project.  The good part about this is that the teacher can help students that are having issues who would normally just sit and say nothing in class because they do not want to be noticed as falling behind. The tech is even better now since I stopped teaching but this is a private company.  If we could get even a fraction of the investment we put into our military all schools could be up and running with an advance simple setup in probably about 2 months.  It would be pushing it but there are companies that are skilled in this stuff. Unfortunately, I do not see that investment coming anytime soon so these outdated online classes will be the norm for a while.



Machiavellian said:

I agree those online system are junk and probably something we did 7 years ago.  Instead the tools I use for teaching online actually have virtual desk on cloud servers where you can log into your machine at anytime anywhere.  The teacher have full view of all the desktops and can jump in remotely to help individual students when needed.  Also the tool allowed the teacher to break out students into groups of one to many depending on the project.  The good part about this is that the teacher can help students that are having issues who would normally just sit and say nothing in class because they do not want to be noticed as falling behind. The tech is even better now since I stopped teaching but this is a private company.  If we could get even a fraction of the investment we put into our military all schools could be up and running with an advance simple setup in probably about 2 months.  It would be pushing it but there are companies that are skilled in this stuff. Unfortunately, I do not see that investment coming anytime soon so these outdated online classes will be the norm for a while.

That sounds amazing! I wish we had that here yet unfortunately the schools can't even hire extra cleaners so the kids will have to clean their own desks to remain covid free.... I really don't know what to do in September with my wife being in the severe risk group. Missing school is still better than growing up without a mother.

We'll get more info tomorrow, hopefully also about the home learning plans.


I also talked to my dad today who lives in the Netherlands. It's baffling how different the advice is there. In the Netherlands they say kids under 12 can't spread covid so all back to class without measures in two weeks. Up to 18 has less risk so they can be in near full classes as well as long as they stay away from the teacher.... Here they say, above 10, same risk as adults to spread the virus. Under 10 still a risk but half of that between adults. Kids need to wear face masks to school but not during lunch hour, thus pointless. No measures to keep the air filtered etc.

This is back to school in Thailand


I'm getting tired of the arguments here that cases are mild in children, so better to send them back to school, completely ignoring the risk of passing it on to the parent and grand parents. School starts beginning of September here, right in time for the second wave to start building :/



Ka-pi96 said:
VAMatt said:
Education is critically important, so we should get government totally out of it. Then, individual schools, students, and parents can make the decisions that are right for them.

With that said, and since we do have government involved, I think schools should be open and parents and students should decide if they want to go the normal way, or a hybrid system.

Could not disagree more. Because it's so important the government definitely should be involved! We don't want kids to be brainwashed.

Sure the government can't be fully trusted in that regard either, but they're a lot more trustworthy than most parents and *shudders* religious schools.

Governments are essentially the same as religious schools in terms of brainwashing.  Parents... Harder to say.  But, governments (essentially all that have ever existed) use continuous streams of propaganda to make people believe whatever they want them to believe.  That's who you want teaching kids?



So... my district changed to a 4 day a week schedule with Friday’s being virtual... not sure how having Friday off will help stop the spread...🤷‍♂️ Utah also updated their guidelines so that any student or teacher that has been in contact with somebody that tests positive will have to quarantine for two weeks... so one positive student could force 8 teachers and hundreds of students to quarantine... and probably their families as well... there is no way that this is going to be sustainable...