Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Phil Spencer confident after seeing PS5 presentation - Gamelab 2020 interview

How do you think MS will perform at the July presentation?

MS will be in a league of its own 5 6.25%
 
MS will do better than the PS5 presentation 14 17.50%
 
MS will do as good as the PS5 presentation 13 16.25%
 
MS will do less well than... 48 60.00%
 
Total:80
DonFerrari said:
Dulfite said:

Please list out all the AAA, brand new, exclusive, full fledged games PS5 had coming in the first 6 months.

We obviously have to wait for MS's July show to know what they have coming and then I can do a fair comparison. Whichever had more quantity of those types of experiences will probably get my purchase. I don't care about "since 7th gen." I didn't own either device last gen so obviously neither appealed to me terribly. But this gen I'm open minded if one can really impress me. So far I'm not at all impressed by Sony. Now I have to wait for MS presentation. If theirs is a letdown as well then I may just not buy this gen yet.

MS already informed that their games for the next 2 years will be crossgen. So no matter how many brand new exclusive AAA games come to PS5, it will be higher than XSX which will be 0 by own admission of Xbox.

And considering the historic of both companies you'll see the amount.

So it really isn't about the amount of AAA, it is really the company that pleases you.

Well that’s not really true. Cross gen or not the games are still new. AAA if that is in fact what they are. It’s a Series X 1st party game not on PS5. Why bring up last gen versions into this when it technically has no merit in a next gen discussion. 

I’d say quantity of AAA matters as in it increases the probability one or more will appeal to the individual. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

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DonFerrari said:
Dulfite said:

Please list out all the AAA, brand new, exclusive, full fledged games PS5 had coming in the first 6 months.

We obviously have to wait for MS's July show to know what they have coming and then I can do a fair comparison. Whichever had more quantity of those types of experiences will probably get my purchase. I don't care about "since 7th gen." I didn't own either device last gen so obviously neither appealed to me terribly. But this gen I'm open minded if one can really impress me. So far I'm not at all impressed by Sony. Now I have to wait for MS presentation. If theirs is a letdown as well then I may just not buy this gen yet.

MS already informed that their games for the next 2 years will be crossgen. So no matter how many brand new exclusive AAA games come to PS5, it will be higher than XSX which will be 0 by own admission of Xbox.

And considering the historic of both companies you'll see the amount.

So it really isn't about the amount of AAA, it is really the company that pleases you.

how long is that 2 years meant to last?, where did MS say that it would Defo be 2 years from the release of XSX?

Man if MS can release Lockhart playing 3rd party games looking as good to the average person as PS5 games while being priced @€199-249.

I can see it selling like hot cakes. Like sony guys here a banging on about the average gamer doesnt care about GFX being a few res higher etc

Things like DLSS can take 540P images and make them look 1080P, and 720P images and make them 1440P.

So if the average gamer can play the next GTA, Fifa, CoD etc Looking close to their PS5 and XBSX versions only in a lower res and the console is priced cheap i can see MS's strategy now its clear as day.



goopy20 said:
Angelus said:

Nice to see someone openly admit how receptive they are to advertising for a change. Most people aren't so forward as to come right out and say that they would rather be strung along, manipulated, and potentially lied to, as long as it's in the interest of selling them a bag of goods.

I exaggerated a bit there, but in a sense you're right. I would have rather seen some super impressive tech demo in May, that in the end never materializes in an actual game, than that shit show we got. At least it would have gotten people hyped about the promise of next gen gaming, while that May event was downright depressing for anyone with high expectations from a 12Tflops console. 

Look I am not a tech guy, but I am a marketing guy. If there's one thing I know it's that whatever the hell Phil Spencer is doing and saying he's doing an amazing job at not getting people fired up about next gen gaming. The interviewer literally asks him "With all that power and technology, are there any kind of experiences that you can now deliver that wouldn't be possible on previous consoles". He could have just replied with a big YES and how we'll see bigger, more immersive worlds bla bla bla. So why didn't he? Why even mention that the deltas will be much smaller compared to previous gen? It just doesn't make sense from a marketing standpoint. And I tell you what, it would make even less sense if they now blow everyone's minds with never-before-seen next gen visuals in July.

_________________________

Regardless how you felt the May event went, MS is being very transparent. We will see what they got in store for July but I can’t say I’ve felt lied to yet. 

I sincerely thought Sony announced Spiderman 2. Many people did. Now before people chime in and tell me Spiderman released in 2018 how could they possibly have the sequel ready.....it’s happened many times where you announce a game even though it’s 2 years away. People were so hyped that Sony had to eventually confirm that no, it is next gen DLC to the PS4 game. 

The most relatable example on Xbox is Halo 3:ODST. By seeing the title, we knew it was an expansion and not a full sequel. Sure Sony corrected it via a tweet, but the damage was done. Millions watched that thinking it was the next big entry who didn’t know better. Sony later denied that their trailer was “misleading”. 

I would prefer Ms not do similar tactics. Show me what I’m going to get, not over promise and dial it back. This goes for not just games but tech talk too. Link to show where I’m coming from. 

https://www.gamespot.com/amp-articles/sony-says-it-wasnt-trying-to-be-misleading-with-ps/1100-6478682/

Last edited by sales2099 - on 02 July 2020

Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

zero129 said:
DonFerrari said:

MS already informed that their games for the next 2 years will be crossgen. So no matter how many brand new exclusive AAA games come to PS5, it will be higher than XSX which will be 0 by own admission of Xbox.

And considering the historic of both companies you'll see the amount.

So it really isn't about the amount of AAA, it is really the company that pleases you.

how long is that 2 years meant to last?, where did MS say that it would Defo be 2 years from the release of XSX?

Man if MS can release Lockhart playing 3rd party games looking as good to the average person as PS5 games while being priced @€199-249.

I can see it selling like hot cakes. Like sony guys here a banging on about the average gamer doesnt care about GFX being a few res higher etc

Things like DLSS can take 540P images and make them look 1080P, and 720P images and make them 1440P.

So if the average gamer can play the next GTA, Fifa, CoD etc Looking close to their PS5 and XBSX versions only in a lower res and the console is priced cheap i can see MS's strategy now its clear as day.

True, but if the bump in resolution isn't worth spending resources on because they average person can't tell the difference, what is stopping Sony from targeting the same resolution as Lockhart? 



sales2099 said:
goopy20 said:

I exaggerated a bit there, but in a sense you're right. I would have rather seen some super impressive tech demo in May, that in the end never materializes in an actual game, than that shit show we got. At least it would have gotten people hyped about the promise of next gen gaming, while that May event was downright depressing for anyone with high expectations from a 12Tflops console. 

Look I am not a tech guy, but I am a marketing guy. If there's one thing I know it's that whatever the hell Phil Spencer is doing and saying he's doing an amazing job at not getting people fired up about next gen gaming. The interviewer literally asks him "With all that power and technology, are there any kind of experiences that you can now deliver that wouldn't be possible on previous consoles". He could have just replied with a big YES and how we'll see bigger, more immersive worlds bla bla bla. So why didn't he? Why even mention that the deltas will be much smaller compared to previous gen? It just doesn't make sense from a marketing standpoint. And I tell you what, it would make even less sense if they now blow everyone's minds with never-before-seen next gen visuals in July.

_________________________

Regardless how you felt the May event went, MS is being very transparent. We will see what they got in store for July but I can’t say I’ve felt lied to yet. 

I sincerely thought Sony announced Spiderman 2. Many people did. Now before people chime in and tell me Spiderman released in 2018 how could they possibly have the sequel ready.....it’s happened many times where you announce a game even though it’s 2 years away. People were so hyped that Sony had to eventually confirm that no, it is next gen DLC to the PS4 game. 

The most relatable example on Xbox is Halo 3:ODST. By seeing the title, we knew it was an expansion and not a full sequel. Sure Sony corrected it via a tweet, but the damage was done. Millions watched that thinking it was the next big entry who didn’t know better. Sony later denied that their trailer was “misleading”. 

I would prefer Ms not do similar tactics. Show me what I’m going to get, not over promise and dial it back. This goes for not just games but tech talk too. Link to show where I’m coming from. 

https://www.gamespot.com/amp-articles/sony-says-it-wasnt-trying-to-be-misleading-with-ps/1100-6478682/

I agree that at least MS is being very transparent. But tell me honestly now, don't you hope that whatever they'll show in July will blow your socks off and finally see things that weren't possible on current gen? Maybe the May even was honest, but it also got people wondering why they should upgrade in the first place.

Last edited by goopy20 - on 02 July 2020

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sales2099 said:
DonFerrari said:

MS already informed that their games for the next 2 years will be crossgen. So no matter how many brand new exclusive AAA games come to PS5, it will be higher than XSX which will be 0 by own admission of Xbox.

And considering the historic of both companies you'll see the amount.

So it really isn't about the amount of AAA, it is really the company that pleases you.

Well that’s not really true. Cross gen or not the games are still new. AAA if that is in fact what they are. It’s a Series X 1st party game not on PS5. Why bring up last gen versions into this when it technically has no merit in a next gen discussion. 

I’d say quantity of AAA matters as in it increases the probability one or more will appeal to the individual. 

Because he was the one that put a lot of restrictions, because if we are then to consider a broader way we can include FFVIIR, TLOU2, GoT and others, even more when he doesn't have 8th gen console.

zero129 said:
DonFerrari said:

MS already informed that their games for the next 2 years will be crossgen. So no matter how many brand new exclusive AAA games come to PS5, it will be higher than XSX which will be 0 by own admission of Xbox.

And considering the historic of both companies you'll see the amount.

So it really isn't about the amount of AAA, it is really the company that pleases you.

how long is that 2 years meant to last?, where did MS say that it would Defo be 2 years from the release of XSX?

Man if MS can release Lockhart playing 3rd party games looking as good to the average person as PS5 games while being priced @€199-249.

I can see it selling like hot cakes. Like sony guys here a banging on about the average gamer doesnt care about GFX being a few res higher etc

Things like DLSS can take 540P images and make them look 1080P, and 720P images and make them 1440P.

So if the average gamer can play the next GTA, Fifa, CoD etc Looking close to their PS5 and XBSX versions only in a lower res and the console is priced cheap i can see MS's strategy now its clear as day.

We don't know exactly how long. But since he asked about true new exclusives then it won't have on the first year at least.

Do you think with 1/3 of the power it will be as good as PS5?

You are putting to much faith on DLSS, even more when it won't be available on AMD chips.



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DonFerrari said:

zero129 said:

how long is that 2 years meant to last?, where did MS say that it would Defo be 2 years from the release of XSX?

Man if MS can release Lockhart playing 3rd party games looking as good to the average person as PS5 games while being priced @€199-249.

I can see it selling like hot cakes. Like sony guys here a banging on about the average gamer doesnt care about GFX being a few res higher etc

Things like DLSS can take 540P images and make them look 1080P, and 720P images and make them 1440P.

So if the average gamer can play the next GTA, Fifa, CoD etc Looking close to their PS5 and XBSX versions only in a lower res and the console is priced cheap i can see MS's strategy now its clear as day.

We don't know exactly how long. But since he asked about true new exclusives then it won't have on the first year at least.

Do you think with 1/3 of the power it will be as good as PS5?

You are putting to much faith on DLSS, even more when it won't be available on AMD chips.

My understanding is that Microsoft and AMD have been working together on their own version of Nvidia's DLSS that combines AMD RDNA 2 tech with Microsoft's DirectML Machine Learning tech. 

"But it doesn't end there. AMD and Microsoft also seem to be targeting Nvidia's DLSS technology with RDNA 2 and the Xbox Series X. If you're not familiar with DLSS, or deep learning super sampling, it's a technology that uses dedicated hardware on Turing graphics cards to upscale images through AI.

Nvidia graphics cards have dedicated Tensor cores that handle this, but AMD is taking another approach. Instead, AMD will be relying on the raw throughput of the GPU, and executing the machine learning workloads through 8- and 4-bit integer operations – much lower precision than the 32-bit operations that are typically used in graphics workloads. This should result in a huge amount of power for this up-scaling without sacrificing too much."

From this article: https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/xbox-series-x-specs

"While DirectML hasn't been confirmed as a next-generation console feature, you can be sure that Microsoft has been considering the option heavily. Work on DirectML has been happening, at least publically, for as long as DXR has, making it likely that AMD is working on hardware DirectML support for its next-generation graphics cards. 

Microsoft has already showcased the potential of machine learning in gaming applications, with the image below showcasing what happens when Machine Learning is used to upscale an image to four times its original resolution (basically from 1080p to 4K) to generate a sharper final image and reduced aliasing. The image below is a comparison between ML Super Sampling and bilinear upsampling. 

This technique has also been showcased during one of Microsoft's SIGGRAPH 2018 tech talks. This talk, which is entitled "Deep Learning for Real-Time Rendering: Accelerating GPU Inferencing with DirectML and DirectX 12" showcases Nvidia hardware upscaling Playground Games' Forza Horizon 3 from 1080p to 4K using DirectML in real-time. DirectML has the potential to improve the graphical fidelity of future console and PC games."

From this article: https://www.overclock3d.net/news/software/microsoft_s_directml_is_the_next-generation_game-changer_that_nobody_s_talking_about/1

Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 02 July 2020

goopy20 said:
zero129 said:

how long is that 2 years meant to last?, where did MS say that it would Defo be 2 years from the release of XSX?

Man if MS can release Lockhart playing 3rd party games looking as good to the average person as PS5 games while being priced @€199-249.

I can see it selling like hot cakes. Like sony guys here a banging on about the average gamer doesnt care about GFX being a few res higher etc

Things like DLSS can take 540P images and make them look 1080P, and 720P images and make them 1440P.

So if the average gamer can play the next GTA, Fifa, CoD etc Looking close to their PS5 and XBSX versions only in a lower res and the console is priced cheap i can see MS's strategy now its clear as day.

True, but if the bump in resolution isn't worth spending resources on because they average person can't tell the difference, what is stopping Sony from targeting the same resolution as Lockhart? 

Nothing.



DonFerrari said:
sales2099 said:

Well that’s not really true. Cross gen or not the games are still new. AAA if that is in fact what they are. It’s a Series X 1st party game not on PS5. Why bring up last gen versions into this when it technically has no merit in a next gen discussion. 

I’d say quantity of AAA matters as in it increases the probability one or more will appeal to the individual. 

Because he was the one that put a lot of restrictions, because if we are then to consider a broader way we can include FFVIIR, TLOU2, GoT and others, even more when he doesn't have 8th gen console.

zero129 said:

how long is that 2 years meant to last?, where did MS say that it would Defo be 2 years from the release of XSX?

Man if MS can release Lockhart playing 3rd party games looking as good to the average person as PS5 games while being priced @€199-249.

I can see it selling like hot cakes. Like sony guys here a banging on about the average gamer doesnt care about GFX being a few res higher etc

Things like DLSS can take 540P images and make them look 1080P, and 720P images and make them 1440P.

So if the average gamer can play the next GTA, Fifa, CoD etc Looking close to their PS5 and XBSX versions only in a lower res and the console is priced cheap i can see MS's strategy now its clear as day.

We don't know exactly how long. But since he asked about true new exclusives then it won't have on the first year at least.

Do you think with 1/3 of the power it will be as good as PS5?

You are putting to much faith on DLSS, even more when it won't be available on AMD chips.

@Bolded I never said anything about it being Exactly like the PS5 version, but it will be closer to the PS5 then say the wii was to the PS3 and will have ports of all next gen games that includes GTA6, next gen Fifa next gen CoD and if its half the price i can honestly see the appeal in such a device to the casuals and the average gamer who doesn't care about res or graphics.

Last edited by zero129 - on 02 July 2020

zero129 said:
goopy20 said:

True, but if the bump in resolution isn't worth spending resources on because they average person can't tell the difference, what is stopping Sony from targeting the same resolution as Lockhart? 

Nothing.

Indeed. As soon as we get more visually ambitious games, 3rd party developers will likely target 1440p or use things like DLSS on the ps5 (and probably Series X). You tell me how those games are going to run on Lockhart with 1/3 of the gpu power?