Forums - Gaming Discussion - Can we talk about The Wonderful 101 laughable Demaster?

DonFerrari on 20 May 2020
curl-6 said:
DonFerrari said:

If Platinum decided to port it and convinced people to pay over 2M when the port was even finished by Rol claim then it doesn't seem like it was such a big failure.

Well, looking at the kickstarter, it has just over 30k backers. If you consider each of them a sale, that's not much, and it likely won't sell a large amount outside that group.

The fact neither Nintendo nor Platinum were willing to fund a port considering how cheap and painless Wii U to Switch porting is says a lot.

Eeerrr if they set the target at 2M to pay the costs and be profitable at 30k sales then it isn't a flop.

RolStoppable said:
DonFerrari said:

If Platinum decided to port it and convinced people to pay over 2M when the port was even finished by Rol claim then it doesn't seem like it was such a big failure.

$2m isn't much when people paid an average of $50 for their copy (there were plenty of special edition offers on the kickstarter in addition to the cheaper standard versions). That's only ~40k copies sold.

The Tokyo Mirage Sessions port sold more copies and brought in more money without making fans pay a premium for various tiers of special editions.

And what does TMS have to do with it? And also a very late port is quite different than a new game.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

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curl-6 on 20 May 2020
DonFerrari said:
curl-6 said:

Well, looking at the kickstarter, it has just over 30k backers. If you consider each of them a sale, that's not much, and it likely won't sell a large amount outside that group.

The fact neither Nintendo nor Platinum were willing to fund a port considering how cheap and painless Wii U to Switch porting is says a lot.

Eeerrr if they set the target at 2M to pay the costs and be profitable at 30k sales then it isn't a flop.

RolStoppable said:

$2m isn't much when people paid an average of $50 for their copy (there were plenty of special edition offers on the kickstarter in addition to the cheaper standard versions). That's only ~40k copies sold.

The Tokyo Mirage Sessions port sold more copies and brought in more money without making fans pay a premium for various tiers of special editions.

And what does TMS have to do with it? And also a very late port is quite different than a new game.

When I said "it was a flop" I referred to its original release, and even if the kickstarter recoups the porting costs that doesn't make the overall project not a failure. Collective sales for all versions will likely still be under a million and this isn't some cheap production.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

RolStoppable on 20 May 2020
DonFerrari said:
RolStoppable said:

$2m isn't much when people paid an average of $50 for their copy (there were plenty of special edition offers on the kickstarter in addition to the cheaper standard versions). That's only ~40k copies sold.

The Tokyo Mirage Sessions port sold more copies and brought in more money without making fans pay a premium for various tiers of special editions.

And what does TMS have to do with it? And also a very late port is quite different than a new game.

Somebody else had asked why Nintendo gave green light for a Tokyo Mirage Sessions port to Switch, wondering why one low-selling game was approved while the other one was not. TMS may have not sold much either, but it still managed notably more than TW101, both as original release on the Wii U and as port for Switch.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Gamers Club

Leynos on 20 May 2020

TMS prob cost less to develop as well. The W101 started as a Wii game as did Scalebound. Development started over for Wii U.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

DonFerrari on 20 May 2020
curl-6 said:
DonFerrari said:

Eeerrr if they set the target at 2M to pay the costs and be profitable at 30k sales then it isn't a flop.

And what does TMS have to do with it? And also a very late port is quite different than a new game.

When I said "it was a flop" I referred to its original release, and even if the kickstarter recoups the porting costs that doesn't make the overall project not a failure. Collective sales for all versions will likely still be under a million and this isn't some cheap production.

We don't have the numbers for both games so we can't really say it is or isn't a flop.

RolStoppable said:
DonFerrari said:

And what does TMS have to do with it? And also a very late port is quite different than a new game.

Somebody else had asked why Nintendo gave green light for a Tokyo Mirage Sessions port to Switch, wondering why one low-selling game was approved while the other one was not. TMS may have not sold much either, but it still managed notably more than TW101, both as original release on the Wii U and as port for Switch.

Ok.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

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curl-6 on 20 May 2020
DonFerrari said:
curl-6 said:

When I said "it was a flop" I referred to its original release, and even if the kickstarter recoups the porting costs that doesn't make the overall project not a failure. Collective sales for all versions will likely still be under a million and this isn't some cheap production.

We don't have the numbers for both games so we can't really say it is or isn't a flop.

We have numbers for the initial release, and we'll be able to tell from how low it shows up on the various sales charts whether the port performs similarly poorly.

At the end of the day, the fact neither Nintendo nor Platinum would fund a port really says it all.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

DonFerrari on 21 May 2020
curl-6 said:
DonFerrari said:

We don't have the numbers for both games so we can't really say it is or isn't a flop.

We have numbers for the initial release, and we'll be able to tell from how low it shows up on the various sales charts whether the port performs similarly poorly.

At the end of the day, the fact neither Nintendo nor Platinum would fund a port really says it all.

From what was said in the thread the ports were all about ready, it was more like a scheme to get more money. But sure we can agree that it wasn't a success.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Mandalore76 on 21 May 2020
Xxain said:
KLXVER said:

Yeah, that doesn't clear up anything. Was Nintendo willing to finance the port or not?

You asked why Nintendo financed TMS but not W101. Platinum games approached Nintendo with the idea of a W101 multi plat port from the beginning (Platinum is pursuing a self publishing future) which is why Nintendo did not finance it but did for TMS, which performed much worse than W101. 

It did?

62.) The Wonderful 101 (Nintendo) 0.36m   15th Sep 13 

65.) Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE (Nintendo) 0.33m    24th Jun 16

W101 released within the first year of the WiiU's launch.  TMS released less than a year before the Switch launched, but had nearly the same lifetime sales.  I wouldn't call that "much worse".



DonFerrari on 21 May 2020
Mandalore76 said:
Xxain said:

You asked why Nintendo financed TMS but not W101. Platinum games approached Nintendo with the idea of a W101 multi plat port from the beginning (Platinum is pursuing a self publishing future) which is why Nintendo did not finance it but did for TMS, which performed much worse than W101. 

It did?

62.) The Wonderful 101 (Nintendo) 0.36m   15th Sep 13 

65.) Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE (Nintendo) 0.33m    24th Jun 16

W101 released within the first year of the WiiU's launch.  TMS released less than a year before the Switch launched, but had nearly the same lifetime sales.  I wouldn't call that "much worse".

And if someone say that TMS was a bigger flop but manage to receive funding for port, TW101 couldn't be said to not receive funding for port due to being a flop.

Also I'll say that over 10% pre-order (compared to the total on WiiU) for a game that didn't have critical reception, need to pay in advance, isn't groundbreaking, and is several years old is actually good number. Even more when the port is so badly made.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

RolStoppable on 21 May 2020
Mandalore76 said:
Xxain said:

You asked why Nintendo financed TMS but not W101. Platinum games approached Nintendo with the idea of a W101 multi plat port from the beginning (Platinum is pursuing a self publishing future) which is why Nintendo did not finance it but did for TMS, which performed much worse than W101. 

It did?

62.) The Wonderful 101 (Nintendo) 0.36m   15th Sep 13 

65.) Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE (Nintendo) 0.33m    24th Jun 16

W101 released within the first year of the WiiU's launch.  TMS released less than a year before the Switch launched, but had nearly the same lifetime sales.  I wouldn't call that "much worse".

VGC software estimates for low-selling games have to be taken with a mountain of salt. The only reference points for these two games have been Japanese software charts from Media Create and Famitsu where TW101 did ~10k lifetime and TMS ~30k lifetime, both physical sales only.

The sales in other parts of the world are anyone's guess, but TMS could at least appeal to collectors with a special edition whereas TW101 was only released as standard edition.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Gamers Club