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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Final Fantasy VII Remake Review Thread - Current 88 Metacritic / 89 Opencritic

Immersiveunreality said:
Immersiveunreality said:
JWeinCom said:

Can you think of any other products that are labelled or marketed as remakes that deviate further from the source material?  When an average person purchases a product marketed as a remake would you say they expect the product to deviate as much as this one did?

Other games or products do also not dictate what a remake is,i'm not saying they should not have been clearer but it remains a remake.

I'm arguing that people call it something it is not just because it upsets them.

Words are only useful when we have a common understanding of what they mean. If every other developer means something else when they use the word remake, and most fans would interpret remake to mean something else, then it is dishonest to call this a remake. By calling it a remake, Square set up certain expectations.  Fans who purchased the product based on that expectation and received something different have reason to be upset. 

Runa216 said:
JWeinCom said:

Yes.  Yes there are.  That's why people wanted to buy a remake, because that's generally what remakes are.

There are also people like you who would like a different story, and good for them.  And if that's what Square wanted to make, good for them too.  But they should have been clear on that from the start. 

between that and the fact that the gameplay (action RPG) is completely changed from the original (turn-Based RPG) should have been another hint that this is not truly a 'remake' in the traditional sense. Considering all the changes they said would be present right from the get-go, I think it's fair to say that SOME people are just being pedantic about story-based changes. 

some people just like to complain! 



Pretty much every remake I can think of does primarily one of two things or both.  Bring the gameplay up to modern standards or bring the audiovisual package up to modern standards.  I cannot think of a single remake that has diverged so drastically from the original story.  

Look at it from another way.  Why has there been such a great demand for a FFVII remake for the last 20 years or so?  Obviously, there was some aspect of the product that people loved and wanted to keep. If no aspect of the game is the same as it was, then it's not really a remake, and it's not what people were demanding.  

There's a simple solution to this though, which is being honest with consumers.  No need for hints or making them infer there will be story changes.  Don't call it a remake if it's not "truly a remake" and tell them you're going to make major story changed.  

Runa216 said:
HoangNhatAnh said:

expand = adding more contents to the original story

FFVIIR = changing completely some major plots of the original story

When remaking a story/game, changes might be necessary. Maybe there's a better way to do something, a more reasonable change to the plot, a more realistic sequence of events? I'm just saying, don't go into ANY remake or remaster or reimagining or whatever you wanna call this expecting the exact same thing. If they were just giving us the exact same thing with prettier graphics, then seriously what is the point? the remaster we got on PS4/Switch was that. This is a whole other thing and I thought it was super obvious from day one that there would be alterations to the game's fundamentals. 

I find it utterly baffling that people are upset that a game that's so far removed from the original in terms of gameplay and presentation would also have significant changes to the plot. From my perspective - and the perspective of most people who write - changes like that are inevitable. 

Look at the MCU: lots of changes from the source material, doing different things to get to many of the same places. and look how much money those movies make. Look at the reviews those films receive. they're good not because of the adherence to the source material, but because of the original things they do and the unique ways they do them. 

If you wanna judge the remake based 100% on how strictly adheres to the original's plot, then you do you. I'll be over here in reality where changes to an adaptation are a fundamental part of the adaptation process. they're par for the course. Virtually necessary to the creative process. 

I'm sorry, there is no way you can argue that the particular changes made here are even vaguely necessary.  There is no way you can argue it was necessary to have the cast 

Spoiler!

literally fight against the plot of original game, and rewrite history through alternate dimensions.

There may be changes necessary to modernize a story.  These are not the kind of changes people are complaining about.



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The way I, a non-fan looking in from the outside, see it, the problem isn't that the story is different. Rather, the problem is that the story is different for needlessly complicated and contrived reasons (apparently there's time travel and alternate universes and stuff). That's what people mean when they say the developers have fucked up a perfectly fine story.

Just 2 cents from a non-fan looking in.



Vodacixi said:
Hynad said:

What do you think was promised? And what are your sources?

From what I’m getting so far here is that some people have a hard time knowing what remake means, and pass their pre-conception and misunderstanding of the word as established facts, and the rest is pretty much nothing more than wishes on their part. 

We have this . And this. And... this. Just to name a few instances (I could be all day gathering quotes and interviews from developers and Square Enix themselves) in which it was said that the story, while introducing changes and expand upon the 1997 game, was going to keep the major plot intact and be faithful to it. So, there you have it.

From what I gather, you guys are so hyped for Final Fantasy VII Remake that you refuse to see what is going on. That's fine, but don't drag everyone else to your world of lies.

From one of your own link:

According to the head of the project with Tetsuya Nomura, the challenge is to create something that can be designed “thanks to the technological power and the quality of entertainment provided by the current generation”, all without forgetting “try to capture elements of the original with respect". According to his words, those who played it at the time will feel "new but familiar", while those less versed in the saga "will experience the charm of Final Fantasy VII, which thrills the hearts of many." Of course, with the latest technology.

Exactly as I pointed out in my earlier comment. Wishes.

I live in the real world.  Not the one in which everything has to be the way I want it in my head. 

I’m sorry, but I knew for a long time they were going to make the journey to many events be different, while retaining the core aspects of the game’s story. 

I knew they weren’t going to do a complete copy/paste of the original and call it a day. 

It is because I knew what to expect that I am not too concerned by the changes made. If I wanted to replay the exact same game, I already have it in many of my gaming systems.

I hope they have a good plan for Part 2 to make it all worthwhile and a compelling continuation. But until I see how they handle it, I am not going to call foul or complain about it everywhere I can and try to change the definition of the word remake.

I understand a lot of people are allergic to change. 

Me? It depends. But as for this game, again, as long as they get the story to where it needs to go, I don’t care if they change the journey and make things new and surprising. 

“The reunion at hand may bring joy, it may bring fear.
But let us embrace whatever it brings.”

Last edited by Hynad - on 08 April 2020

Hynad said:
Vodacixi said:

We have this . And this. And... this. Just to name a few instances (I could be all day gathering quotes and interviews from developers and Square Enix themselves) in which it was said that the story, while introducing changes and expand upon the 1997 game, was going to keep the major plot intact and be faithful to it. So, there you have it.

From what I gather, you guys are so hyped for Final Fantasy VII Remake that you refuse to see what is going on. That's fine, but don't drag everyone else to your world of lies.

From one of your own link:

According to the head of the project with Tetsuya Nomura, the challenge is to create something that can be designed “thanks to the technological power and the quality of entertainment provided by the current generation”, all without forgetting “try to capture elements of the original with respect". According to his words, those who played it at the time will feel "new but familiar", while those less versed in the saga "will experience the charm of Final Fantasy VII, which thrills the hearts of many." Of course, with the latest technology.

Exactly as I pointed out in my earlier comment. Wishes.

I live in the real world.  Not the one in which everything has to be the way I want it in my head. 

I’m sorry, but I knew for a long time they were going to make the journey to many events be different, while retaining the core aspects of the game’s story. 

I knew they weren’t going to do a complete copy/paste of the original and call it a day. 

It is because I knew what to expect that I am not too concerned by the changes made. If I wanted to replay the same game, I have it in many of my gaming systems.

I hope they have a good plan for Part 2 to make it all worthwhile and a compelling continuation. But until I see how they handle it, I am not going to call foul or complain about it everywhere I can and try to change the definition of the word remake.

I understand a lot of people are allergic to change. 

Me? It depends. But as for this game, again, as long as they get the story to where it needs to go, I don’t care if they change the journey and make things new and surprising. 

“The reunion at hand may bring joy, it may bring fear.
But let us embrace whatever it brings.”

And what about these lies from just two weeks ago?

"In terms of how faithful the remake is to the original Final Fantasy VII, from the perspective of the storyline, it is very faithful indeed," Toriyama said. "The major story structure is kept very close, so you will do the Mako Reactor bombing mission and then return to the Sector 7 slums."

Longtime series writer Kazushige Nojima echoed Toriyama's sentiment, adding: "Well, the main story is still the same, but I have added in many new scenes that happen between the main events of the original, which show how the relationship between Cloud and the other characters deepened. [For example], Cloud's childhood friend Tifa shows him a flat in Midgar, and they come to live in the same building. It is a Japanese-styled flat and the scene itself is quite sweet. So, I want people to look forward to [those additions]."

Producer and director of the original game, Yoshinori Kitase, also chimed in: "Of course, all the memorable elements and key moments from the original have been faithfully reproduced, and you can enjoy experiencing those again."

Again, these are absolute lies. Very faithful, my ass. I will not support false advertising or using the guise of a remake so Nomura can make more KH's bullshit. If you want to come up with excuses for  why blatantly lying to consumers is ok, you go right ahead, but don't act like they weren't BSing us from the start.



thismeintiel said:
Hynad said:

From one of your own link:

According to the head of the project with Tetsuya Nomura, the challenge is to create something that can be designed “thanks to the technological power and the quality of entertainment provided by the current generation”, all without forgetting “try to capture elements of the original with respect". According to his words, those who played it at the time will feel "new but familiar", while those less versed in the saga "will experience the charm of Final Fantasy VII, which thrills the hearts of many." Of course, with the latest technology.

Exactly as I pointed out in my earlier comment. Wishes.

I live in the real world.  Not the one in which everything has to be the way I want it in my head. 

I’m sorry, but I knew for a long time they were going to make the journey to many events be different, while retaining the core aspects of the game’s story. 

I knew they weren’t going to do a complete copy/paste of the original and call it a day. 

It is because I knew what to expect that I am not too concerned by the changes made. If I wanted to replay the same game, I have it in many of my gaming systems.

I hope they have a good plan for Part 2 to make it all worthwhile and a compelling continuation. But until I see how they handle it, I am not going to call foul or complain about it everywhere I can and try to change the definition of the word remake.

I understand a lot of people are allergic to change. 

Me? It depends. But as for this game, again, as long as they get the story to where it needs to go, I don’t care if they change the journey and make things new and surprising. 

“The reunion at hand may bring joy, it may bring fear.
But let us embrace whatever it brings.”

And what about these lies from just two weeks ago?

"In terms of how faithful the remake is to the original Final Fantasy VII, from the perspective of the storyline, it is very faithful indeed," Toriyama said. "The major story structure is kept very close, so you will do the Mako Reactor bombing mission and then return to the Sector 7 slums."

Longtime series writer Kazushige Nojima echoed Toriyama's sentiment, adding: "Well, the main story is still the same, but I have added in many new scenes that happen between the main events of the original, which show how the relationship between Cloud and the other characters deepened. [For example], Cloud's childhood friend Tifa shows him a flat in Midgar, and they come to live in the same building. It is a Japanese-styled flat and the scene itself is quite sweet. So, I want people to look forward to [those additions]."

Producer and director of the original game, Yoshinori Kitase, also chimed in: "Of course, all the memorable elements and key moments from the original have been faithfully reproduced, and you can enjoy experiencing those again."

Again, these are absolute lies. Very faithful, my ass. I will not support false advertising or using the guise of a remake so Nomura can make more KH's bullshit. If you want to come up with excuses for  why blatantly lying to consumers is ok, you go right ahead, but don't act like they weren't BSing us from the start.

Ahhh well. You haven’t experienced it sooo... In the mean time, keep the outrage culture strong! 🤘👍👍


“Because Cloud... You... are a puppet.”

Last edited by Hynad - on 09 April 2020

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thismeintiel said:
Hynad said:

From one of your own link:

According to the head of the project with Tetsuya Nomura, the challenge is to create something that can be designed “thanks to the technological power and the quality of entertainment provided by the current generation”, all without forgetting “try to capture elements of the original with respect". According to his words, those who played it at the time will feel "new but familiar", while those less versed in the saga "will experience the charm of Final Fantasy VII, which thrills the hearts of many." Of course, with the latest technology.

Exactly as I pointed out in my earlier comment. Wishes.

I live in the real world.  Not the one in which everything has to be the way I want it in my head. 

I’m sorry, but I knew for a long time they were going to make the journey to many events be different, while retaining the core aspects of the game’s story. 

I knew they weren’t going to do a complete copy/paste of the original and call it a day. 

It is because I knew what to expect that I am not too concerned by the changes made. If I wanted to replay the same game, I have it in many of my gaming systems.

I hope they have a good plan for Part 2 to make it all worthwhile and a compelling continuation. But until I see how they handle it, I am not going to call foul or complain about it everywhere I can and try to change the definition of the word remake.

I understand a lot of people are allergic to change. 

Me? It depends. But as for this game, again, as long as they get the story to where it needs to go, I don’t care if they change the journey and make things new and surprising. 

“The reunion at hand may bring joy, it may bring fear.
But let us embrace whatever it brings.”

And what about these lies from just two weeks ago?

"In terms of how faithful the remake is to the original Final Fantasy VII, from the perspective of the storyline, it is very faithful indeed," Toriyama said. "The major story structure is kept very close, so you will do the Mako Reactor bombing mission and then return to the Sector 7 slums."

Longtime series writer Kazushige Nojima echoed Toriyama's sentiment, adding: "Well, the main story is still the same, but I have added in many new scenes that happen between the main events of the original, which show how the relationship between Cloud and the other characters deepened. [For example], Cloud's childhood friend Tifa shows him a flat in Midgar, and they come to live in the same building. It is a Japanese-styled flat and the scene itself is quite sweet. So, I want people to look forward to [those additions]."

Producer and director of the original game, Yoshinori Kitase, also chimed in: "Of course, all the memorable elements and key moments from the original have been faithfully reproduced, and you can enjoy experiencing those again."

Again, these are absolute lies. Very faithful, my ass. I will not support false advertising or using the guise of a remake so Nomura can make more KH's bullshit. If you want to come up with excuses for  why blatantly lying to consumers is ok, you go right ahead, but don't act like they weren't BSing us from the start.

wtf? It's like you expect an exact 1:1 representation of the original with technology of today. They specifically said they've added many new scenes. The Bombing Mission was pretty damn faithful to me. The park scene was faithful. As well as many other things but with modern tech.

Last edited by deskpro2k3 - on 08 April 2020

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deskpro2k3 said:
thismeintiel said:

And what about these lies from just two weeks ago?

"In terms of how faithful the remake is to the original Final Fantasy VII, from the perspective of the storyline, it is very faithful indeed," Toriyama said. "The major story structure is kept very close, so you will do the Mako Reactor bombing mission and then return to the Sector 7 slums."

Longtime series writer Kazushige Nojima echoed Toriyama's sentiment, adding: "Well, the main story is still the same, but I have added in many new scenes that happen between the main events of the original, which show how the relationship between Cloud and the other characters deepened. [For example], Cloud's childhood friend Tifa shows him a flat in Midgar, and they come to live in the same building. It is a Japanese-styled flat and the scene itself is quite sweet. So, I want people to look forward to [those additions]."

Producer and director of the original game, Yoshinori Kitase, also chimed in: "Of course, all the memorable elements and key moments from the original have been faithfully reproduced, and you can enjoy experiencing those again."

Again, these are absolute lies. Very faithful, my ass. I will not support false advertising or using the guise of a remake so Nomura can make more KH's bullshit. If you want to come up with excuses for  why blatantly lying to consumers is ok, you go right ahead, but don't act like they weren't BSing us from the start.

wtf? You expect an exact 1:1 representation of the original with technology of today? They specifically said they've added many new scenes. The Bombing Mission was pretty damn faithful to me. The park scene was faithful. As well as many other things but with modern tech.

I don't know how many times you need to be told the same thing. People were expecting the story and characters to be expanded upon, maybe some extra sequences to be added, generally stuff that will add to and expand upon the original story.

This is just throwing out the original story and doing something almost completely different. I'm not sure if you've seen spoilers or not, but the latter part of this release completely jumps the shark. Now some my like this direction but the people who are unhappy with this are completely justified in there reasoning for not liking this new direction.



Immersiveunreality said:
HoangNhatAnh said:

Except there is no jrpg remake which changed completely the main story like this, the final villain could become an antihero, an ally in the next part and fighting together against a new villain. A remake could change the graphic, art style, battle system, music, add a lot more contents or whatever except the main plot. All JRPG remakes existed so far have changed a lot of things but not the story. FFVIIR did it, mean it's not a remake anymore, changing the major plot = rebooting the story.

Try to get this: I does not matter how other remakes were done,that does not change that this is a remake.

Bolded: Wrong,it still uses that same story with the same cast and some things left out or some adding does not make this a reboot.

When all other remakes didn't do that, then the only one who was wrong is this game.

Second bolded: i don't care if it added or cut out something, as long as the main story was kept, then it is a remake. But nope, the major plot of the main story was changed, the "remake" which you claimed is not a remake anymore.



Vodacixi said:
Immersiveunreality said:

Try to get this: I does not matter how other remakes were done,that does not change that this is a remake.

Bolded: Wrong,it still uses that same story with the same cast and some things left out or some adding does not make this a reboot.

I mean, if you don't want to use the correct word that has been used for decades to define a new take on a certain IP that resets the original story (reboot)... you are free to do so. But don't try to argue with other people about it. Because you are wrong. If every freaking remake in the history of remakes has been done in a certain way... then if there comes a product that does not adjust to those traits, but to those of another type of recreation (a reboot... maybe a reimagining if we want to stretch things), then that thing by definition is NOT A REMAKE. It's a reboot.

The definition you want us to believe is what you personally think the definition is by cherrypicking examples that do not matter.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

''A reboot is a way to reuse the concept behind a game/movie/etc. (backstory, gameplay mechanics, some characters/locations/plotlines) but otherwise rewrite the entire plot and characters. ... Typically, it means that all existing "canon" for the setting and characters is wiped clean''

''It has been described as a way to "rebrand"[3] or "restart an entertainment universe that has already been established".[1] Another definition of a reboot is a remake which is part of an established film series or other media franchise.[4] The term has been criticised for being a vague and "confusing"[5] " buzzword",[6] and a neologism for remake,[7][8] a concept which has been losing popularity in the 2010s''

''In general, the simplest way to remember the difference between a reboot and a remake is to remember that for a film to be a reboot, it should be resetting a chronology that's been established over multiple films. A remake is concerned with updating a single film, sometimes slavishly''

''With video games there are clear cut reboots with games like 2013's Tomb Raider, 2003's Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time, and 2004's Ninja Gaiden (even though I don't believe it was marketed as a reboot) where both the gameplay and storyline saw revamps.

But then we head a murkier area where gameplay more or less gets rebooted, but there is still storyline continuity.

Take last year's Resident Evil VII where they revamped the gameplay and while it is still within the same storyline continuity, the setting is very much self-contained. Aside from a few nods to show that it takes place within the same universe, it pretty much can stand alone without any knowledge of prior titles (normally the goal of a reboot to attract new audiences).''

Dictonary:

verb (used with object)

to restart (a computer) by loading the operating system; boot again.
to produce a distinctly new version of (an established media franchise, as a film, TV show, video game, or comic book):The studio is rebooting Spider-Man.
to make a change in (something) in order to establish a new beginning:She’s rebooting her career.Lower interest rates are intended to reboot the economy.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FF7 remake still sticks close enough to the path the original took to be considered a remake and even reboot is kind of a branched off word for remake but by distinction FF7 is STILL a remake.



HoangNhatAnh said:
Immersiveunreality said:

Try to get this: I does not matter how other remakes were done,that does not change that this is a remake.

Bolded: Wrong,it still uses that same story with the same cast and some things left out or some adding does not make this a reboot.

When all other remakes didn't do that, then the only one who was wrong is this game.

Second bolded: i don't care if it added or cut out something, as long as the main story was kept, then it is a remake. But nope, the major plot of the main story was changed, the "remake" which you claimed is not a remake anymore.

Wrong, a remake CAN have a changed plot if it still chronologically keeps other elements of the story intact with the same characters.