By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - Official 2020 US Presidential Election Thread

sundin13 said:
JWeinCom said:

I dunno... I feel that there are or at least were some republicans who genuinely thought what they were doing was best for the country.

Maybe in the past tense. Now, at least on the federal level, I have my doubts.

Maybe I'm naive, but I think most people in the government genuinely want to help people. I think there are republicans who genuinely believe that lower taxes are beneficial to society, abortion is wrong, government regulation is bad, and the right to own guns is important. I'm not saying I agree with these things, but they're not absurd positions to hold. And they saw Trump as a means to an ends. But, then they had to accept and endorse all of the batshit crazy things that came along with it. And, since nobody wants to believe they're supporting a demented wannabe fascist, they started rationalizing. 

It's like in Captain America: Winter Soldier. S.H.I.E.L.D. recognized the value of Hydra and what they could do. They thought they could use Hydra, but realized too late that Hydra was using them. 

It will be interesting to see what happens with the Republican party. Trump is trying to use his cult to hold them hostage, which is what he's doing in Georgia. With the runoffs happening so soon, they can't afford to openly oppose him right now. But after that... They have two years to try and separate themselves from him. I don't think they can win in 2022 and 2024 with him commanding half the party. How they fight that, I dunno. 



Around the Network
sundin13 said:
JWeinCom said:

I dunno... I feel that there are or at least were some republicans who genuinely thought what they were doing was best for the country.

Maybe in the past tense. Now, at least on the federal level, I have my doubts.

There still are, but few have the clout and cojones to stand up to Trump and his cronies. Bill Weld for instance, who tried to run against Trump in the primaries, or Mitt Romney. And also those who are behind the Lincoln Project.

But yeah, they are much more the exception than they are the rule. Just look at the former NeverTrumper Lindsey Graham. He's so turncoat he would even make former Stasi agents blush.



The fact that the vast majority of Republicans are complicit to Trump proves that they really have no values. At least no values that extend beyond themselves.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

vivster said:

The fact that the vast majority of Republicans are complicit to Trump proves that they really have no values. At least no values that extend beyond themselves.

No they still have values, but politics has never really been about values more than it has been about power.  Currently Trump holds the power because love him or hate him he still got 74 million votes.  That means he can still be a pain in their buts for years and if he can create a platform to try and remain relevant then he will cause a nice split within the party that is not going to be good overall.  Its not a bad plan on Trump end and as I would say at least it appears he is playing the long game.  He will continue to fleece his supporters, probably talk about a run towards 2024.  Have some fundraisers that will net a lot of cash and then do nothing.  All the while he holds the GOP hostage as long as he can prove he still have a loyal base.  I was wondering what his long term plan was with the fraud case and stringing thing outs but as things continue and him raking in millions, its obvious what his plans are.  I doubt he will run in 2024 but he will try to rake in as much money as he possible can between that time.  Hell, he probably have a lot of lawsuits to settle and it will cost some money.



So the Donald Trump campaign has raised $207 million in donations since losing the election. He keeps telling his donors the money is needed for legal expenses to expose voter fraud and overturn the results of the election. Of course this just incentivizes Trump to keep lying about the issue and bleeding his supporter dry of more money.

The money will likely be transferred to a Trump Super Pac allowing him to wield considerable political influence. Once a con man always a con man.

Fools and their money are easily parted. I am sickened by money in politics to begin with but the amount of financial waste on such idiocy is truly pathetic.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1gWECYYOSo

Please Watch/Share this video so it gets shown in Hollywood.

Around the Network

IMHO The Dems and Reps mostly have the same types of people, people that want power/wealth for its' own sake, they like the status quo, it's been good to people in power, why change it! By the jobs very nature it attracts the worst humanity can breed up, the ones that love to control and dominate for personal gain, luckily in a Democracy we have the potential to vote them out, but these types of people are great at gaming the system to stay on  

There are a few, too few that do it for others and only others, generally the ones that want a fairer system for all, particularly the struggling/underprivileged, they tend to be more empathetic to other humans and sensitive to the natural environment, they are some of the best people

Last edited by Rab - on 04 December 2020

Rab said:

IMHO The Dems and Reps mostly have the same types of people, people that want power/wealth for its' own sake, they like the status quo, it's been good to people in power, why change it! By the jobs very nature it attracts the worst humanity can breed up, the ones that love to control and dominate for personal gain, luckily in a Democracy we have the potential to vote them out, but these types of people are great at gaming the system to stay on  

There are a few, too few that do it for others and only others, generally the ones that want a fairer system for all, particularly the struggling/underprivileged, they tend to be more empathetic to other humans and sensitive to the natural environment, they are some of the best people

False equivalence yet again. It's really not beneficial for any democracy to pretend that "both sides are the same", when they are clearly not. At least not in the US. It's an easy cop-out to not have to think about politics too hard.

There is one side who fights for the majority of Americans and there is the other side who fights only for themselves. Both have big donors and want to stay in power, but only one of them is actually practicing democracy. And that seems to be a pretty big difference. Big enough to not equate them.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

vivster said:
Rab said:

IMHO The Dems and Reps mostly have the same types of people, people that want power/wealth for its' own sake, they like the status quo, it's been good to people in power, why change it! By the jobs very nature it attracts the worst humanity can breed up, the ones that love to control and dominate for personal gain, luckily in a Democracy we have the potential to vote them out, but these types of people are great at gaming the system to stay on  

There are a few, too few that do it for others and only others, generally the ones that want a fairer system for all, particularly the struggling/underprivileged, they tend to be more empathetic to other humans and sensitive to the natural environment, they are some of the best people

False equivalence yet again. It's really not beneficial for any democracy to pretend that "both sides are the same", when they are clearly not. At least not in the US. It's an easy cop-out to not have to think about politics too hard.

There is one side who fights for the majority of Americans and there is the other side who fights only for themselves. Both have big donors and want to stay in power, but only one of them is actually practicing democracy. And that seems to be a pretty big difference. Big enough to not equate them.

And even if he was true, then why support the status quo? Why not vote third party if you're unhappy with the both big parties?



Bofferbrauer2 said:
vivster said:

False equivalence yet again. It's really not beneficial for any democracy to pretend that "both sides are the same", when they are clearly not. At least not in the US. It's an easy cop-out to not have to think about politics too hard.

There is one side who fights for the majority of Americans and there is the other side who fights only for themselves. Both have big donors and want to stay in power, but only one of them is actually practicing democracy. And that seems to be a pretty big difference. Big enough to not equate them.

And even if he was true, then why support the status quo? Why not vote third party if you're unhappy with the both big parties?

In other countries like Australia that can work as it is closer to proportional representation, as seen how the Greens in many other countries are a force even if not getting elected outright, the US Electoral College is a "winner takes all" system, small parties will not get proportional representation therefore its a dead vote, so the "lesser of two evils" rational is the practical choice for voters  

Last edited by Rab - on 04 December 2020

vivster said:
Rab said:

IMHO The Dems and Reps mostly have the same types of people, people that want power/wealth for its' own sake, they like the status quo, it's been good to people in power, why change it! By the jobs very nature it attracts the worst humanity can breed up, the ones that love to control and dominate for personal gain, luckily in a Democracy we have the potential to vote them out, but these types of people are great at gaming the system to stay on  

There are a few, too few that do it for others and only others, generally the ones that want a fairer system for all, particularly the struggling/underprivileged, they tend to be more empathetic to other humans and sensitive to the natural environment, they are some of the best people

False equivalence yet again. It's really not beneficial for any democracy to pretend that "both sides are the same", when they are clearly not. At least not in the US. It's an easy cop-out to not have to think about politics too hard.

There is one side who fights for the majority of Americans and there is the other side who fights only for themselves. Both have big donors and want to stay in power, but only one of them is actually practicing democracy. And that seems to be a pretty big difference. Big enough to not equate them.

You must have missed the Dems presidential primaries when the Democratic establishment had concerns about nominating Sanders when it appeared he would win by having the enthusiasm with workers and the young for his very progressive policies and honesty, the Establishment then rallied to block Sanders in favour of Biden who up until then had low voter turnout and enthusiasm because his policies were status quo in nature  

There is a reason Trump became president, and it wasn't because of the Est Dems empathy and policy choices that favoured the working class, they wanted to stay in power not for the people (if so why not champion policies that favour the working class like Sanders did), but for the people in power and privilege (their own class) 

2024 could see the Reps get back in if the Dems don't change to better reflect the young and working class aspirations, if they just benefit the big donors and themselves as the ruling class they will be in trouble come 2024, unfortunately the makeup of the cabinet is setting this up for a bad 2024, mixed demographically but ideologically consistent with the status quo, the progressives with the enthusiastic base are not truly represented in Bidens cabinet picks

The Reps and Dems are different sides of the same bent coin, Sanders/AOC wanted to mint a new coin 

Last edited by Rab - on 05 December 2020