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Forums - Politics Discussion - Official 2020 US Presidential Election Thread

JWeinCom said:
Rab said:

AOC and Bernie are some the most honest people in politics, it's what they are known for, fair and by the book, that's them to a tee 

Eh... fairly or not, they're perceived as partisan and will therefore be considered biased. 

But much more importantly, they have no legal experience. Which is kind of important for the person who is in theory the top lawyer in the federal government. The responsibilities are to prosecute and to give legal advice. I don't think they're qualified to do either.

It's not like being fair and tough is enough to handle a court case. The attorney general being someone who has never worked a case would be as far as I know unprecedented, and likely a train wreck.

Yep I see the point about legal experience, from that point alone they would not fit the bill

I guess my point is really to avoid any compromise and that Trump gets an honest and fair trial from a rigorous prosecution team

He should not be allowed to have a reduced sentence just because it will upset bias/political people, same as what is done to people without power without support, it should be extremely fair and open and to hell with politics, all citizens need to be seen as being treated equally in the eyes of the law  

 



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Rab said:
JWeinCom said:

Eh... fairly or not, they're perceived as partisan and will therefore be considered biased. 

But much more importantly, they have no legal experience. Which is kind of important for the person who is in theory the top lawyer in the federal government. The responsibilities are to prosecute and to give legal advice. I don't think they're qualified to do either.

It's not like being fair and tough is enough to handle a court case. The attorney general being someone who has never worked a case would be as far as I know unprecedented, and likely a train wreck.

Yep I see the point about legal experience, from that point alone they would not fit the bill

I guess my point is really to avoid any compromise and that Trump gets an honest and fair trial from a rigorous prosecution team

He should not be allowed to have a reduced sentence just because it will upset bias/political people, same as what is done to people without power without support, it should be extremely fair and open and to hell with politics, all citizens need to be seen as being treated equally in the eyes of the law  

 

He will get a reduced sentence because he was President, he is white and he has money.  All of those conditions favor him compared to if he was poor, POC and was the fry chef at McDonalds.  This is how the US works and its been working like that for a long time.  Only when you piss off a huge amount of powerful people do they really go after the rich elite.  Now Trump definitely has piss off those people but he has also gotten a lot of others paid so it balances out.  There is this dream that all citizens are treaded equal under the law and there is the reality where its a toss up when it comes to rich people.



Machiavellian said:
Rab said:

Yep I see the point about legal experience, from that point alone they would not fit the bill

I guess my point is really to avoid any compromise and that Trump gets an honest and fair trial from a rigorous prosecution team

He should not be allowed to have a reduced sentence just because it will upset bias/political people, same as what is done to people without power without support, it should be extremely fair and open and to hell with politics, all citizens need to be seen as being treated equally in the eyes of the law  

 

He will get a reduced sentence because he was President, he is white and he has money.  All of those conditions favor him compared to if he was poor, POC and was the fry chef at McDonalds.  This is how the US works and its been working like that for a long time.  Only when you piss off a huge amount of powerful people do they really go after the rich elite.  Now Trump definitely has piss off those people but he has also gotten a lot of others paid so it balances out.  There is this dream that all citizens are treaded equal under the law and there is the reality where its a toss up when it comes to rich people.

Yeah, pretty much why I hoped AOC or Bernie would be one of the few that could really speak truth to power and stand against this tide of corruption that never seems to lessen, but as pointed out they are no lawyers, such is the system  



Trump and co. finally give the closest thing to a concession we're likely to get and allow the transition process to begin:



Biden just passed 80 million votes nationwide. 80,023,131 to be exact (51.1%); And still counting.

Trump sits at 73,883,576 (47.2%). And still counting

Biden currently leads by a margin of 6,139,555 votes and growing as NY and CA continue to count.

Yet of that 80,023,131+ votes, all Trump needed was just 45,000-50,000 in Arizona, Georgia, and Wisconsin to swing his way to force a tie in the Electoral College and essentially win a 2nd term.

Yeah, fuck the Electoral College. That shit has got to go.

Last edited by PAOerfulone - on 24 November 2020

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PAOerfulone said:

Biden just passed 80 million votes nationwide. 80,023,131 to be exact (51.1%); And still counting.

Trump sits at 73,883,576 (47.2%). And still counting

Biden currently leads by a margin of 6,139,555 votes and growing as NY and CA continue to count.

Yet of that 80,023,131+ votes, all Trump needed was just 45,000-50,000 in Arizona, Georgia, and Wisconsin to swing his way to force a tie in the Electoral College and essentially win a 2nd term.

Yeah, fuck the Electoral College. That shit has got to go.

The Midwest and South fear their voice won't be heard if the highly populated coasts ultimately decide who is the president.  What concerns a Californian is different than that of a tough Southern oil driller or Midwest farmer.



rapsuperstar31 said:
PAOerfulone said:

Biden just passed 80 million votes nationwide. 80,023,131 to be exact (51.1%); And still counting.

Trump sits at 73,883,576 (47.2%). And still counting

Biden currently leads by a margin of 6,139,555 votes and growing as NY and CA continue to count.

Yet of that 80,023,131+ votes, all Trump needed was just 45,000-50,000 in Arizona, Georgia, and Wisconsin to swing his way to force a tie in the Electoral College and essentially win a 2nd term.

Yeah, fuck the Electoral College. That shit has got to go.

The Midwest and South fear their voice won't be heard if the highly populated coasts ultimately decide who is the president.  What concerns a Californian is different than that of a tough Southern oil driller or Midwest farmer.

I get what your saying and it's understandable, the farmers and oil drillers need to have a say, particularly at the local level, but the vast majority of Humans live near the coast, they need proportional representation as far more coastal people than farmers are affected by government decisions, the greater good must be considered without leaving people behind, this very evident in climate change policies where the few have put the majority at great risk   



rapsuperstar31 said:
PAOerfulone said:

Biden just passed 80 million votes nationwide. 80,023,131 to be exact (51.1%); And still counting.

Trump sits at 73,883,576 (47.2%). And still counting

Biden currently leads by a margin of 6,139,555 votes and growing as NY and CA continue to count.

Yet of that 80,023,131+ votes, all Trump needed was just 45,000-50,000 in Arizona, Georgia, and Wisconsin to swing his way to force a tie in the Electoral College and essentially win a 2nd term.

Yeah, fuck the Electoral College. That shit has got to go.

The Midwest and South fear their voice won't be heard if the highly populated coasts ultimately decide who is the president.  What concerns a Californian is different than that of a tough Southern oil driller or Midwest farmer.

Isn't it the same the other way around?

The biggest irony is that those Californians still care more about the midwestern farmers than the midwestern farmers do.



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rapsuperstar31 said:
PAOerfulone said:

Biden just passed 80 million votes nationwide. 80,023,131 to be exact (51.1%); And still counting.

Trump sits at 73,883,576 (47.2%). And still counting

Biden currently leads by a margin of 6,139,555 votes and growing as NY and CA continue to count.

Yet of that 80,023,131+ votes, all Trump needed was just 45,000-50,000 in Arizona, Georgia, and Wisconsin to swing his way to force a tie in the Electoral College and essentially win a 2nd term.

Yeah, fuck the Electoral College. That shit has got to go.

The Midwest and South fear their voice won't be heard if the highly populated coasts ultimately decide who is the president.  What concerns a Californian is different than that of a tough Southern oil driller or Midwest farmer.

South ~114 million, 194 electors, 0.588 million/elector

West ~74 million, 121 electors, 0.612 million/elector 

West w/ Alaska and Hawaii ~76 millon, 129 electors, 0.590 million/elector

Midwest ~65 million, 118 electors, 0.551 million/elector

Northeast ~55 million, 99 electors, 0.556 million/elector

If you focus on the broad "regions" of the US, you'll find that the Midwest is roughly comparable to the Northeast in terms of electoral college representation per person (0.551 to 0.556), while also being significantly larger.  The South, likewise is comparable to the West in terms of electoral representation (0.588 to 0.590) while nearly being 50% larger in population.  If you don't include Hawaii and Alaska in the West, the electoral college representation more significantly favors the South (0.588 to 0.612).  If you normalize the electoral college voting representation, you see the following:

South ~112 million (-2)

West w/ A and H ~74 million (-2)

West ~70 millon (-4)

Midwest ~68 million (+3)

Northeast ~57 million (+2)

What does this tell us?  The normalized data tells us that the Midwest and Northeast benefit the most from the Electoral College.  The South and the West benefit the least.  The raw data tells us the South and the Midwest collectively represent over half the US regardless, so the notion that they would be less represented without it is bogus.  Neither region is "low populated", and every region has low population states.

The reason why the electoral college is tight when the popular vote is not is because red states with large populations are more competitive than their blue counterparts.  Dropping the electoral college makes it so that the 49% of the votes of the losing party in a state are still heard.  Those people still live in that state.  The notion of the will of the people being all or nothing needs to end.

This is why the Midwest and the South are so over-represented in terms of presidential campaigning.  They have more swing states.  It has nothing to do with population.  Because of the electoral college, the only criteria that matters is "how close is the state to 50% in the polls".  No one else really matters.

In a world where we followed the popular vote, the South would still get the most attention, and the Northeast would still get the least.  But it would be proportional to the people that live there instead of just focusing on the key swing states in each part of the country.  How is this a bad thing?



rapsuperstar31 said:
PAOerfulone said:

Biden just passed 80 million votes nationwide. 80,023,131 to be exact (51.1%); And still counting.

Trump sits at 73,883,576 (47.2%). And still counting

Biden currently leads by a margin of 6,139,555 votes and growing as NY and CA continue to count.

Yet of that 80,023,131+ votes, all Trump needed was just 45,000-50,000 in Arizona, Georgia, and Wisconsin to swing his way to force a tie in the Electoral College and essentially win a 2nd term.

Yeah, fuck the Electoral College. That shit has got to go.

The Midwest and South fear their voice won't be heard if the highly populated coasts ultimately decide who is the president.  What concerns a Californian is different than that of a tough Southern oil driller or Midwest farmer.

This is the reason for the electoral college, true.

But the way it is, the electoral college is highly unbalanced. This is due to the number of votes being divided up by population - and only then a +2 gets slapped on top for the senators. As a result, smaller states (by population, not necessarily also by size) have a much bigger weight than they should have. Those states are almost all republican states, and are the result why they can compete with the democrats despite being beaten at the popular vote.

A short term fix could be to increase the number of electoral votes from 538 to something like 599, for instance (an uneven number to avoid a potential tie situation). This would strengthen the bigger states and reduce the influence those small states have over the election results, making them more proportional.

And of course, there's the NaPoVoInterCo. But it's implementation has been stalled indefinitely and I'm not sure it will be coming anytime soon.