Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Staring into the abyss of a world where Nintendo has no games scheduled for release. Edit: The Time of Darkness Has Arrived

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IcaroRibeiro said:
RolStoppable said:

 very divisive sequel (The Last of Us Part II)

leaving Ghost of Tsushima as the only standout title in 2020. 

I agree with most of your essay but this makes no sense. Divisive or not, TLOUs is one of the most impactful and discussed games this year (probably the most commented on SNS after Animal Crossing), and is among the best sellers. With such high value production in both artistic and technical sense are very hard to say it's not a stand out title 

Pokemon Sword/Shield was also pretty damn divisive, but I don't see people regarding it as a non standout title (well, I actually see, but let's pretend I'm right cause it's not the point) 

What kind of argument is that? You admit to being wrong, but want me to pretend that you are right?

The comparison between The Last of Us Part II and Pokémon Sword/Shield isn't far off the mark. The original point that was raised in regards to TLoU2 was that it is an exciting new game and my counterpoint to that is that if Nintendo had put out a game like it, it wouldn't pass as both new and exciting. Sword/Shield definitely wasn't a Nintendo game that was embraced with a warm welcome, because we had multiple long threads about its shortcomings.

But more importantly, my main point was regarding consistency. For example, if someone is willing to look past the flaws of The Last of Us Part II, then they should do the same for Sword/Shield; or if Sword/Shield is regarded as failing to live up to expectations, then it should be the same for The Last of Us Part II. Not this "Nintendo's 2020 is disappointing, but hey, look at how great Sony has been doing" thing we've had here.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

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RolStoppable said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Rol you are treating the thread as if it was a prediction thread, with the prediction that Nintendo would have zero new releases for the rest of 2020. But it wasn't that as evidenced by this part of OP's post...

I realize that there's a good chance this will be remedied by the end of the month. If nothing else, their fiscal year is ending and they'll want to brag about their slate and Xenoblade seems like it's already been rated in some territories so it's probably coming soonish. But I wanted to mark this strange moment in time.

So OP acknowledges that Nintendo will likely have a release in Xenoblade HD, but the thread was predicting that Nintendo would have no releases in 2020? That just doesn't make any sense. The OP makes a lot more  sense when taken as OP showing general dismay at Nintendo's overall 2020 output, and communication with fans.

TWEWY Final Remix was published by Nintendo outside of Japan, which means Nintendo did in fact have something to do with it. Whether a game is digital or physical doesn't matter. All that matters is that the game was released in 2018. But I do understand your complaints. And that's my point. We can be rational, only including new non-toy, non-free, developed games by Nintendo, or at the very least containing a Nintendo IP, or being a 2nd party offering. Or we can throw reason to the wind, and start including basically anything and everything. The funny thing is that using either method shows 2018 to be far superior to 2020. My argument is a dilemma style argument.

1. Either we can can include only non-toy, non-free, games developed by Nintendo, or at the very least containing a Nintendo IP, or being a 2nd party offering.

2. Or we can include virtually every game under the sun.

3. If we use method 1. 2018 has a better lineup.

4.If we use method 2 2018 still has a better lineup.

5. Therefore 2018 has a better lineup.

I already made a post naming the four games that Sony has for 2020, and no, I didn't say they were all for PS4. Sales aren't the be all and end all of whether a game is exciting or not. Earthbound, Musha, and a ton of other 16 bit games never sold well, but are now highly sought after, and emulated. Animal Crossing took longer than expected to finish as well. You can't use delays at one company to dismiss games, but ignore the delays of another company.

I haven't treated this thread as a prediction at any point. This thread used to have a lot more support when it still had merit (0 or only 1 Nintendo game dated for release), but since the Mario Direct said support fell mostly apart. The following announcement of Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity sealed the deal for even more people. Now that the thread has lost its merit for good with several Nintendo games dated for release, it's basically just you and the original poster who try to frame the thread as something that it was never to begin with. It's now supposed to be a very general thread that serves as spot to complain about something Nintendo did or didn't do. I already told NightlyPoe that I'd prefer a new thread that is on topic because at least that would be honest instead of what we have in here.

Turns out that I misremembered the publishing of The World Ends With You, but as I said a few times before, I wouldn't count any third party games towards Nintendo's output. Which in turn means that the currently for 2020 scheduled Bravely Default II won't change anything for the evaluation of Nintendo in 2020 either.

Regarding double standards and being rational about comparisons, note that I said there's no reason to be impressed by Sony's 2020 output and at the same time I did not make any claims that there's something impressive about Nintendo's 2020 output. The point I was making is that you should be honest about a Nintendo vs. Sony 2020 comparison and you obviously weren't.

If Nintendo's output were comparable to Sony's, you can bet that this thread would have got a lot more support. First party software droughts, uninteresting releases (Dreams, the seventh PS4 version of MLB), a very divisive sequel (The Last of Us Part II), a DLC derived from a PS4-level game sold as standalone game as the major PS5 launch title (Spider-Man: Miles Morales), an Astrobot title that Sony doesn't dare to charge for, leaving Ghost of Tsushima as the only standout title in 2020. But not only will Nintendo have released more games than Sony in 2020, Switch owners will have also been more pleased with the offerings than PS4 and PS5 owners. That is why you won't see much support for your side in this thread, because the vast majority of discussion in here was always about subjective perceptions and as soon as someone who was discontent saw something pleasing, they abandoned the thread.

On one hand it's good to see that people hold Nintendo to a higher standard than Sony, but on the other hand people need to keep it real.

Rol, you are treating the thread as if it were a prediction thread. You need to prove that OP explicitly laid out goals at the start of the thread. Otherwise your claim of goalpost moving is hollow.

We are on the same page as far as TWEWY, Octopath, and Bravely Default II go. They really shouldn't count at all, when evaluating Nintendo.

Actually, I was being honest about Sony's 2020, because their lineup is impressive to me and many other gamers. I think you are one of the few that isn't impressed by it. It's a good thing that you agree that Nintendo's 2020 isn't impressive though. Perhaps you don't think it's an abysmal mess, like I do, but at least you aren't irrational enough to think it's an impressive year.

Wait, you seriously think Nintendo's 2020 output is better than Sony's? I already mentioned how there's lots of games that don't sell well initially, but eventually get remembered as all time classics. A game having haters is irrelevant to whether it is good or not. TLoU2 wasn't GotY material like the original, but it was still a great game, and definitely a must own. Miles Morales is not a DLC. It's a sequel, in the same sense that Bravely Second is a sequel to Bravely Default. Besides, even if it started life out as DLC, so did Super Mario Galaxy 2. If Switch owners will be more pleased, then Switch owners are easily pleased. Paper Mario hasn't been good since 2007 at best. A small Indie team managed to make a better Paper Mario game than Nintendo, with Bug Fables. Clubhouse games is just a bunch of card, and board games. Nothing interesting there. I remain cautiously optimistic about Age of Calamity, but let's not pretend that it's a sure thing. After all, it's a Musou game at it's core. Hopefully it is a great game. I guess we'll see.

Last edited by Cerebralbore101 - 4 days ago

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The sentence above is true. 

 

Damn this thread keeps on going? Seriously? People sometimes get stuck so much with their ideas, is not easy for them to simple say “ok, i overreacted, i was wrong; lets move on” ? Trying to prove your preferences as the only truth out there, is just so narrow minded, people need to remember that.



Cerebralbore101 said:

Rol, you are treating the thread as if it were a prediction thread. You need to prove that OP explicitly laid out goals at the start of the thread. Otherwise your claim of goalpost moving is hollow.

We are on the same page as far as TWEWY, Octopath, and Bravely Default II go. They really shouldn't count at all, when evaluating Nintendo.

Actually, I was being honest about Sony's 2020, because their lineup is impressive to me and many other gamers. I think you are one of the few that isn't impressed by it. It's a good thing that you agree that Nintendo's 2020 isn't impressive though. Perhaps you don't think it's an abysmal mess, like I do, but at least you aren't irrational enough to think it's an impressive year.

Wait, you seriously think Nintendo's 2020 output is better than Sony's? I already mentioned how there's lots of games that don't sell well initially, but eventually get remembered as all time classics. A game having haters is irrelevant to whether it is good or not. TLoU2 wasn't GotY material like the original, but it was still a great game, and definitely a must own. Miles Morales is not a DLC. It's a sequel, in the same sense that Bravely Second is a sequel to Bravely Default. Besides, even if it started life out as DLC, so did Super Mario Galaxy 2. If Switch owners will be more pleased, then Switch owners are easily pleased. Paper Mario hasn't been good since 2007 at best. A small Indie team managed to make a better Paper Mario game than Nintendo, with Bug Fables. Clubhouse games is just a bunch of card, and board games. Nothing interesting there. I remain cautiously optimistic about Age of Calamity, but let's not pretend that it's a sure thing. After all, it's a Musou game at it's core. Hopefully it is a great game. I guess we'll see.

The thread title and original post are unambiguous. The topic is that Nintendo was not having games scheduled for release and there were no arbitrary rules like quality of the games or a question whether the games were all-new, remakes or ports. Games scheduled for release was the only thing it was about. But that problem has been solved with now several Nintendo games having exact dates, so the thread is obsolete.

Of course Nintendo's output is better than Sony's. That's because I am not dismissing, for example, an all-time great like Xenoblade Chronicles: Definitive Edition because it's a remake nor do I dismiss Super Mario 3D Allstars. If haters are supposed to be irrelevant like you say, then all your personal complaints in this thread are moot, unless you want to insist on using double standards when comparing Nintendo and Sony. Nintendo will have released more well-received games than Sony in 2020, both critically and commercially. There's no good reason to doubt that.

Miles Morales is not comparable to Bravely Second or Super Mario Galaxy 2. Also, your idea that SMG2 started out as DLC is ridiculous, considering how limited the Wii's internal storage was. Nintendo did not release DLC for any of their major Wii games for that reason.

https://www.ign.com/articles/spider-man-miles-morales-ps5-coming-of-age-full-arc

Elsewhere in the interview, Insomniac reiterates that the Miles Morales game isn't a formal sequel to the first game, and that it's a "shorter spin-off, likened in scope to the Lost Legacy game in the Uncharted series."



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Gamers Club

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RolStoppable said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Rol, you are treating the thread as if it were a prediction thread. You need to prove that OP explicitly laid out goals at the start of the thread. Otherwise your claim of goalpost moving is hollow.

We are on the same page as far as TWEWY, Octopath, and Bravely Default II go. They really shouldn't count at all, when evaluating Nintendo.

Actually, I was being honest about Sony's 2020, because their lineup is impressive to me and many other gamers. I think you are one of the few that isn't impressed by it. It's a good thing that you agree that Nintendo's 2020 isn't impressive though. Perhaps you don't think it's an abysmal mess, like I do, but at least you aren't irrational enough to think it's an impressive year.

Wait, you seriously think Nintendo's 2020 output is better than Sony's? I already mentioned how there's lots of games that don't sell well initially, but eventually get remembered as all time classics. A game having haters is irrelevant to whether it is good or not. TLoU2 wasn't GotY material like the original, but it was still a great game, and definitely a must own. Miles Morales is not a DLC. It's a sequel, in the same sense that Bravely Second is a sequel to Bravely Default. Besides, even if it started life out as DLC, so did Super Mario Galaxy 2. If Switch owners will be more pleased, then Switch owners are easily pleased. Paper Mario hasn't been good since 2007 at best. A small Indie team managed to make a better Paper Mario game than Nintendo, with Bug Fables. Clubhouse games is just a bunch of card, and board games. Nothing interesting there. I remain cautiously optimistic about Age of Calamity, but let's not pretend that it's a sure thing. After all, it's a Musou game at it's core. Hopefully it is a great game. I guess we'll see.

The thread title and original post are unambiguous. The topic is that Nintendo was not having games scheduled for release and there were no arbitrary rules like quality of the games or a question whether the games were all-new, remakes or ports. Games scheduled for release was the only thing it was about. But that problem has been solved with now several Nintendo games having exact dates, so the thread is obsolete.

Of course Nintendo's output is better than Sony's. That's because I am not dismissing, for example, an all-time great like Xenoblade Chronicles: Definitive Edition because it's a remake nor do I dismiss Super Mario 3D Allstars. If haters are supposed to be irrelevant like you say, then all your personal complaints in this thread are moot, unless you want to insist on using double standards when comparing Nintendo and Sony. Nintendo will have released more well-received games than Sony in 2020, both critically and commercially. There's no good reason to doubt that.

Miles Morales is not comparable to Bravely Second or Super Mario Galaxy 2. Also, your idea that SMG2 started out as DLC is ridiculous, considering how limited the Wii's internal storage was. Nintendo did not release DLC for any of their major Wii games for that reason.

https://www.ign.com/articles/spider-man-miles-morales-ps5-coming-of-age-full-arc

Elsewhere in the interview, Insomniac reiterates that the Miles Morales game isn't a formal sequel to the first game, and that it's a "shorter spin-off, likened in scope to the Lost Legacy game in the Uncharted series."

The topic was that Nintendo didn't have any games scheduled for release at that moment in time. OP even said that it was likely to be remedied quickly. That doesn't equal a prediction that Nintendo wasn't going to have any games scheduled for release at all.

Ports and remakes are important, but they are far overshadowed in importance by actual new games. Suppose Nintendo stops making new games entirely. For the next 20 years, they just do ports and remakes.  Meanwhile other companies are making new games. Should Nintendo be regarded as having better output than any other game company in that hypothetical scenario?

Sorry about the SMG2 claim. I misremembered a decade old article from a gaming magazine. The initial title was SMG 1.5 or SMG More, or something like that. I likened that to DLC, incorrectly.

Torna is actually DLC, but I still count that as a great game for 2018, so I hope you can understand why I and others see Miles Morales as something worth mentioning. It's not DLC, but probably started off life that way at some point. Besides, I'd rather have a spin-off that has the core gameplay of the thing it's spinning off from, than what Age of Calamity is.

P.S. Fingers still crossed that Age of Calamity is actually good. Here's hoping!




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The sentence above is true. 

 

Cerebralbore101 said:

The topic was that Nintendo didn't have any games scheduled for release at that moment in time. OP even said that it was likely to be remedied quickly. That doesn't equal a prediction that Nintendo wasn't going to have any games scheduled for release at all.

Ports and remakes are important, but they are far overshadowed in importance by actual new games. Suppose Nintendo stops making new games entirely. For the next 20 years, they just do ports and remakes.  Meanwhile other companies are making new games. Should Nintendo be regarded as having better output than any other game company in that hypothetical scenario?

Sorry about the SMG2 claim. I misremembered a decade old article from a gaming magazine. The initial title was SMG 1.5 or SMG More, or something like that. I likened that to DLC, incorrectly.

Torna is actually DLC, but I still count that as a great game for 2018, so I hope you can understand why I and others see Miles Morales as something worth mentioning. It's not DLC, but probably started off life that way at some point. Besides, I'd rather have a spin-off that has the core gameplay of the thing it's spinning off from, than what Age of Calamity is.

P.S. Fingers still crossed that Age of Calamity is actually good. Here's hoping!

At this point I am convinced that your are acting deliberately obtuse regarding what this thread is about. You keep repeating the word 'prediction' despite nobody in this thread ever taking it as a prediction thread. Nintendo has a defined release schedule now, so the problem this thread was about has been solved. But not everyone was willing to accept that the thread was done for, so the discussion shifted to something entirely different. I reiterate that the current kind of discussion should have been a new thread all along because it doesn't belong here where it's a straightforward "games or no games dated for release."

Your hypothetical scenario is completely and utterly pointless, because it's 100% unrealistic and you know it.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Gamers Club

I am having a very fun time with my Switch this year so I don’t know what you are talking about Celebralbore, saying most gamers agree with you. Are you an ambassador for gamers?



I am a Nintendo fanatic.

Maynard_Tool said:
Damn this thread keeps on going? Seriously? People sometimes get stuck so much with their ideas, is not easy for them to simple say “ok, i overreacted, i was wrong; lets move on” ? Trying to prove your preferences as the only truth out there, is just so narrow minded, people need to remember that.

Umm, wrong about what?  And, what overreaction?  If anything, I think time has proven that the March version of me that started this thread was overly optimistic.  If you'd told me in March that Nintendo would only release two more new games and not have a big holiday title, I wouldn't have believed you.  Yet here we are.

If you'd like to come in and discuss the situation rationally, it would be nice, but why come in just to crap on people?  What is the purpose of the drive-by?



Kai_Mao said:
Fight-the-Streets said:

I agree. I can remember that Nintendo's President Shuntaro Furukawa said not too long ago that (on a Q&A of a financial report I guess) that they are currently not interested in buying 3rd party studios because it would be very difficult to infuse into them the Nintendo identity (which stands for a special Nintendo quality, creativity and innovation). Although, I personally think there are lots of talented 3rd party studios around that would complement Nintendo's lineup with more diversity and the respective 3rd party studio's own quality identity, even if we would agree with this statement it still begs the question why then not build-up new in-house teams? They have plenty of money to pay the best talents in the industry and to pay for additional space needed, hell, they could even invent their own talent pool, kind of a Nintendo university to instruct young talented people from the ground-up, surely many of them would want to work for Nintendo afterwards.

It is by far the biggest critic I have on Nintendo: Why not use some of your money to build new development teams? It would ultimately result in having much less (quality) software droughts (and would quell most of such critical threads like this one).

Nintendo has been hiring new graduates to be part of their development teams so they're kinda doing what you're saying in the last sentence of your first paragraph.

As far as developing teams, it would take months (if not years) before they could even start up, let alone develop a game. Nintendo is already managing multiple teams within EPD and teams such as iQue, Retro Studios, NDCube, and Monolith Soft, let alone working with developers such as Intelligent Systems, HAL, Game Freak, Good Feel, Grezzo, Next Level Games, Camelot, Genius Sonority, and Sora, Ltd. There are other teams and studios Nintendo has or are working with that we don't even mention much because they either are working on smaller titles or are mostly support teams.

I don't know what's the mindset of Nintendo in regards on what they spend and how much they spend on projects. But they seem to have a grasp on what they need or not need at this time. If they feel that a new in-house team will not be financially worth it, then that's their stance.

Edit: Not to mention Nintendo is continuously working with third party developers to develop new games. Astral Chain from Platinum Games is an example, as well as the recently announced Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity from Koei Tecmo. Koei Tecmo even developed Fire Emblem Three Houses alongside some of Intelligent Systems' team members.

I know, Nintendo has its hand in a lot of projects but still, personally, I wish they would build more in-house teams. But maybe Nintendo is very wise: They probably know that inflating the market with two many games (1st and 3rd party) would devaluate the worth of each individual game. For example, if Nintendo would bring out a new Action-Adventure on the quality level of a Zelda game each quarter, it would be fantastic initially but after a while very boring, even if the games would be very different from each other, the seen it, been there-mood would eventually would catch up and an overall lack of excitement would set in.

During the NES days, Nintendo was very draconic re how many games each 3rd party developer could publish each year. Nintendo got very criticised for that practice but Nintendo knew that the games industry crash in the US happened partly because the market got flooded with trash games. I think they did the right thing. Interestingly, what we observe now is that the indy-market is flooded with too many trash games. It think it's time for the platform holders to have higher requirements for quality in their respective e-shops before a game can be released.