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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Staring into the abyss of a world where Nintendo has no games scheduled for release. Edit: The Time of Darkness Has Arrived

Cerebralbore101 said:
NightlyPoe said:

So, I've been watching this from a bit of a distance, and...

THANKYOU! I've been trying to tell them that they completely missed the context of your OP. You started this thread by basically asking, what new games were coming out this year, and then pointing out that it wasn't much. Of course anyone with half a brain should understand what you meant by that. But they insisted on using ports of old games to drive their narrative.

It's the same type of idiocy as the following discussion...

Teenager 1: I can't find a girlfriend. Nobody likes me.

Teenager 2: The old, one legged, lunch lady in the cafeteria likes you. You should date her! I'm serious!

Teenager 1: How dense are you? I obviously meant, nobody *MY AGE* likes me.

It's like they can't even read between the lines. Every damned thing has to be spelled out for them, and spoon fed to them.

Edit: And now I'm going to take a few days' break from this thread. I've been on here all day. Partly because I wanted to stand my ground on a topic I felt was important. Partly because I was waiting for the rumoured PS5 price reveal/blowout, and absolutely did not want to miss the thread that ensued. We only get threads like that once every seven years after all! Anywho, I'm exhausted, and Persona 5 really needs to be finished up.

Well, the original poster now confirmed that his thread is about goalpost moving. It started as "no games scheduled for release", but he laid it out in the open that it's actually not only about only new games, but also additional criteria, so Clubhouse Games is half a game at best and Mario Kart Live doesn't count to begin with.

Using your analogy, teenager 1 would be complaining about not finding a girlfriend, teenager 2 would then tell him about an attractive and smart girl his age that also happens to be interested in teenager 1, to which teenager 1 responds that she isn't good enough for him because she has only B cups.

So it turns out that people in here understood what this thread is about: Subjective tantrums that are thinly disguised as objective criticism.

The point raised by @AngryLittleAlchemist remains true, there's a lack of nuance in this thread. Over the past two days we had many people in here telling you that you've lost your marbles, but NightlyPoe frames those responses as people trying to convince others that Nintendo has been having a good year and repeats how there have been only three new games (that is, after the goalposts have been moved as far as they could) to arrive at a conclusion that the disappointment expressed in this thread has been reasonable, including your posts specifically. He had a bigger problem with the people responding to you than your posts.

In the end we have a Nintendo year that is on a similar level as 2018 in terms of quality (quantity-wise, all Switch years have been about the same). 2018 saw a bunch of ports to pad out the lineup and was very backloaded in terms of big titles (all of them in the holiday quarter). 2020 has a better spread of the big titles, but the padding is there all the same. Of course neither year can compete with 2017 or 2019, but people should remember that those years rank among the best of all-time in terms of first party output on any console. If you use those years as base level, then yes, 2020 has been bad. But if you display more intellectual honesty and look at the big picture where other consoles - past and present - are included to gauge the quality of a first party lineup, then 2020 is okay in both an overall context or a Nintendo-only context.

What's getting on people's nerves when disappointment is expressed is not the disappointment itself, but the tremendous hyperbole and intellectual dishonesty (= moving the goalposts) that goes along with it. When you say things like Sony has been doing a better job than Nintendo in 2020 or write a condescending post like the one I quoted here, then you better be prepared to receive on the same level as you dish out. On the same note, the size of the active userbase on this forum means that people know each other. For example, if you are curl-6 and complain about Nintendo, then people already know what's up. Likewise, you've made a name for yourself too.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Shipments

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Ok so No More Heroes (pun intended) for this year

On positive note, with so many delays 2021 line up is already getting better



Cerebralbore101 said:
zorg1000 said:

Sure, you forgot a game or two each year but in 2020 (the year you are arguing is worse than other years) you missed like half the lineup. I hope you can see how that comes off like someone pushing an agenda.

If you're going to have an accurate comparison than either include everuthing or have a specific criteria (like only new games or only games that sell x amount, etc).

If you include all the ports/remasters in one year than include all of them in other years.

If you include a game based around a toy/accessory in one year than include games based around a toy/accessory in other years.

If you include 3rd party games published by Nintendo in one year than include all 3rd party games published by Nintendo in other years.

I just want consistently when it comes to making year by year comparisons.

Out of the 9 games I forgot 7 of them are games I never bought, or don't plan on ever buying. I would have forgotten a couple more games from 2018, that I didn't buy too. But they were part of xPhenom08x's list, which I was building on.

Edit: I forgot, that I forgot NSMBU as well. So to update, I forgot 9 games in total, 7 of which I didn't buy.


And of those 9 you forgot, 5 were from this year.

Well maybe if you're going to do a list war it might be a good idea to do 2 minutes of research.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nintendo_products

This is literally the first result when googling "Nintendo published games"



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

NightlyPoe said:
RolStoppable said:

Well, the original poster now confirmed that his thread is about goalpost moving. It started as "no games scheduled for release", but he laid it out in the open that it's actually not only about only new games, but also additional criteria, so Clubhouse Games is half a game at best and Mario Kart Live doesn't count to begin with.

We're not playing a game.  There is no competition.  There are no goalposts.

This is a conversation.  And conversations evolve as the facts on the ground change.  And, as time went on, it made sense that the thread evolved from, "Gee, it's weird that Nintendo hasn't announced their 2020 plans yet" to, "Gee, it looks like Nintendo doesn't have much for 2020."  No one was required to stop the moment Xenoblade or Pikmin 3 were dated.

Would it have made you happier if the thread was abandoned for someone else's actual rage thread entitled "2020 Sucks!"?  Would you be okay with people expressing their disappointment there instead?

but he laid it out in the open that it's actually not only about only new games, but also additional criteria, so Clubhouse Games is half a game at best and Mario Kart Live doesn't count to begin with.

Do you disagree that Clubhouse Games would only be nominally considered new or that Mario Kart Live isn't a toy?  Or are you just being argumentative for the sake of it?

That's basically an attempted justification for moving the goalposts. When you make a point, then the facts change, but you want to uphold your original point, you'll have to move the goalposts in a thread like this. But that's not evolution of a conversation, it's the opposite.

And yes, I would have prefered a new thread because the example of a thread title you suggested is honest upfront instead of what we have here where it's still attempted to disguise it as something that it isn't.

And yes, I disagree with your classification of those new games. Regarding Clubhouse Games, your issue is probably that it's a collection of board games and other small games, of which many are known entities since decades; but the likes of FIFA 21 are also new games despite having fewer changes and additions than Nintendo's Clubhouse Games. Mario Kart Live is a toy, but it's also a game; toy and game aren't mutually exclusive.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Shipments

like Rol said, 2020 is pretty similar to 2018 with the most notable difference being that one had its biggest game in Dec while the other was in March. Basically you can reshuffle the schedules and make them look the same.

2018 lineup (actual)
Feb-Bayonetta 2
March-Kirby Star Allies
April-Labo
May-Tropical Freeze/Hyrule Warriors
June-Mario Tennis Aces
July-Captain Toad/Octopath Traveler
Sept-Torna
Oct-Super Mario Party
Nov-Pokemon Lets Go
Dec-Smash Bros

2020 linuep (reshuffled)
Feb-Toyko Mirage Sessions
March-Pokemon Mystery Dungeon
April-Clubhouse Games
May-Pikmin 3/Xenoblade DE
June-Paper Mario
July-Bravely Default 2
Sept-Age of Calamity
Oct-Mario Kart Live
Nov-3D All Stars
Dec-Animal Crossing



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

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zorg1000 said:
like Rol said, 2020 is pretty similar to 2018 with the most notable difference being that one had its biggest game in Dec while the other was in March. Basically you can reshuffle the schedules and make them look the same.

2018 lineup (actual)
Feb-Bayonetta 2
March-Kirby Star Allies
April-Labo
May-Tropical Freeze/Hyrule Warriors
June-Mario Tennis Aces
July-Captain Toad/Octopath Traveler
Sept-Torna
Oct-Super Mario Party
Nov-Pokemon Lets Go
Dec-Smash Bros

2020 linuep (reshuffled)
Feb-Toyko Mirage Sessions
March-Pokemon Mystery Dungeon
April-Clubhouse Games
May-Pikmin 3/Xenoblade DE
June-Paper Mario
July-Bravely Default 2
Sept-Age of Calamity
Oct-Mario Kart Live
Nov-3D All Stars
Dec-Animal Crossing

13 physical releases in 2018 (Labo had three, but I don't count Octopath Traveler because it isn't a Nintendo game), 11 physical releases in 2020 (adding Cadence of Hyrule, removing Bravely Default 2 for the same reason as OT in 2018). 2018 has the edge in quantity because of two additional Labo releases, but most people won't assign much weight to that, so 2018 and 2020 really do end up very similar. There's still a slim chance that 2020 gets another Nintendo game, but that won't change the year dramatically when objectivity is applied. Subjectivity is of course an entirely different matter as we have already seen with the announcement of Super Mario 3D All-Stars most recently.

In any case, you get a schedule that is close to one retail game per month which means no gaping holes between first party releases. Whether or not you like the games that have been released is a subjective matter, but objectively there have been enough games to set these two Switch years apart from the actual time of darkness that the Wii U was, where gaps of 3+ months between first party releases were common.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Shipments

NightlyPoe said:

There are no goalposts.



RolStoppable said:

~snip~

The point raised by @AngryLittleAlchemist remains true, there's a lack of nuance in this thread. Over the past two days we had many people in here telling you that you've lost your marbles, but NightlyPoe frames those responses as people trying to convince others that Nintendo has been having a good year and repeats how there have been only three new games (that is, after the goalposts have been moved as far as they could) to arrive at a conclusion that the disappointment expressed in this thread has been reasonable, including your posts specifically. He had a bigger problem with the people responding to you than your posts.

~snip~ 

Yea I have to admit, while I still stand by the general points brought up in my post, it just wasn't an appropriate one for this thread. I felt like valid subjective criticism was going to be flushed down the drain because of poorly thought-out objective list wars, and while negativity being lumped in with bad actors is still something I fear for other threads in the rest of the forum, that comment wasn't really applicable here - specifically when the subjective side of the argument starts engaging in the very same list wars that would make their points illogical.

In the span of a few weeks we got people flipping around entirely because of one Mario collection which not only had very little effort put into it, but was rumored for almost half the year and didn't even fully represent the 3D-line it was referencing (talking about Galaxy 2, I can understand 3D Land and World of course). In such a scenario, all it would take is a simple "what if x rumor is true?" for a person to be completely fine with the year when including the previously unannounced collection. And a Zelda spin-off which, while looking quite great, just begs the question ... did people really expect no new games at all for the holiday? Is that what people were really basing their entire argument off of? It just makes the whole proposition silly. I probably should have known something was up when even in my own post the only people I could really "call out" directly as bad actors were also the only people on the side of downplaying Nintendo's 2020, even whilst defending their right to be disappointed. 

It's quite funny too because Xenoblade HD ended up being one of my favorite games on the Switch and possibly a favorite in general, and while I didn't play much Animal Crossing and haven't gotten to Paper Mario yet, again there's very little disappointment from my end other than just wanting more new releases from afar (and even that has evaporated since the 3D Mario Collection and Hyrule Warriors 2, both of which I'm quite excited for). I suppose I care too much about being fair to others, and arguing in general, that I sort of missed the forest for the trees. Now I'm not sure if the comment has aged poorly because it doesn't make sense for this thread, or if it has aged finely because it goes to show how endlessly unbelievable the discussion in this thread will continue to be. 



Right. And there’s no war in Ba Sing Se.



NightlyPoe said:
zorg1000 said:
like Rol said, 2020 is pretty similar to 2018 with the most notable difference being that one had its biggest game in Dec while the other was in March. Basically you can reshuffle the schedules and make them look the same.

2018 lineup (actual)
Feb-Bayonetta 2
March-Kirby Star Allies
April-Labo
May-Tropical Freeze/Hyrule Warriors
June-Mario Tennis Aces
July-Captain Toad/Octopath Traveler
Sept-Torna
Oct-Super Mario Party
Nov-Pokemon Lets Go
Dec-Smash Bros

2020 linuep (reshuffled)
Feb-Toyko Mirage Sessions
March-Pokemon Mystery Dungeon
April-Clubhouse Games
May-Pikmin 3/Xenoblade DE
June-Paper Mario
July-Bravely Default 2
Sept-Age of Calamity
Oct-Mario Kart Live
Nov-3D All Stars
Dec-Animal Crossing

Except 2018 is considered a poor year as well.  So you're already comparing poor to poor.

And, again, 2020 falls well below those standards.  I count 5 definite new games in 2020 (plus Torna and Sushi Striker as lesser releases) vs. only 3 in 2018 (with Clubhouse Games as a lesser release).

I don't know exactly why you're trying to convince yourself that 2020 is equal to an already poor, year, but you're really not having a good showing if all you're doing is treating all releases as equal no matter whether they are new or old ports.

Read the convo I had with Cerebralbore101, it explains why I'm making the comparison and I'm not sure where you came up with me saying all releases are equal, can you point out where I ever said that?



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.