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Forums - General Discussion - The LGBT thread (Revisited)

RolStoppable said:

Jaicee said:

Oh I have a sense of humor. For example, when I read the bolded item, I laughed hysterically at the desperation of it because I AM a lesbian.

Look I can take a joke. But I'm also a human being. I do still have feelings, and limits, you know?

As both of you have misunderstood the point I was trying to get across, it wasn't about getting a sense of humor. Lightening up is about general attitude, namely if you expect to encounter hate for things you like, then you'll find hate even in the tiniest things. In its most pronounced form, that's the attitude that oppressed white males have, so they take offense to things where other people wouldn't even get the slightest idea of discrimination. Or as another example, if you constantly expect that the world is going to turn into shit, then you'll post reactions to political events like CaptainExplosion does. That's why you should lighten up or else you might turn into an ultra-defensive person over time.

Not to disparage the good captain, but I think most people would pretty easily be able to tell the difference between a random post authored by me and one authored by him without benefit of attached usernames. There is much we may share in common, but styles of communication aren't among them and that's pretty obvious.

Anyway, more directly to your point/case, I don't know if people perceive me as being the heavy-handed sort or not, but I certainly don't try to be. Matter-of-factly, I DON'T give voice to most of the things that irk me. I let the vast majority of it slide because I often feel like saying anything isn't worth it because it will likely just provoke a wildly disproportionate backlash. I don't go around "calling people out" for their latest slip of the tongue or whatever. There are some people on these forums who have habits like that, but I'm not one of them. And I report nothing. I also censored my post we're referencing a lot. My first instinct was to write a long string of swear words, but I opted to compose myself enough to write a coherent response instead. I go out of my way not to be seen as hypersensitive, or like a stereotypical "SJW" or what have you.

None of this, however, means that I don't have feelings, or that my words don't necessarily have the unseen context of my day at work or of hunger or stress over bills or a wave of tremendous loneliness or just feeling like I'm a total failure at life or my depression getting to me. Not to get too dark here, but the truth is that I spend much of a typical day trying to find little reasons to go on. Any and all of that pain, anxiety, and frustration might find indirect expression sometimes in my writings here. Sometimes reading a bunch of blatantly misogynistic comments that serve to ruin the one thing I felt like I had to look forward to that day just serves as the icing on the cake that makes me feel like I'm being made fun of by a whole community of people I associate myself with and makes me feel like I simply must have some sympathy from somebody somewhere. And then people like yourself tell me that can't have that and that I'm a wimpy snowflake (as politely as you can manage).



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Jaicee said:

Not to disparage the good captain, but I think most people would pretty easily be able to tell the difference between a random post authored by me and one authored by him without benefit of attached usernames. There is much we may share in common, but styles of communication aren't among them and that's pretty obvious.

Anyway, more directly to your point/case, I don't know if people perceive me as being the heavy-handed sort or not, but I certainly don't try to be. Matter-of-factly, I DON'T give voice to most of the things that irk me. I let the vast majority of it slide because I often feel like saying anything isn't worth it because it will likely just provoke a wildly disproportionate backlash. I don't go around "calling people out" for their latest slip of the tongue or whatever. There are some people on these forums who have habits like that, but I'm not one of them. And I report nothing. I also censored my post we're referencing a lot. My first instinct was to write a long string of swear words, but I opted to compose myself enough to write a coherent response instead. I go out of my way not to be seen as hypersensitive, or like a stereotypical "SJW" or what have you.

None of this, however, means that I don't have feelings, or that my words don't necessarily have the unseen context of my day at work or of hunger or stress over bills or a wave of tremendous loneliness or just feeling like I'm a total failure at life or my depression getting to me. Not to get too dark here, but the truth is that I spend much of a typical day trying to find little reasons to go on. Any and all of that pain, anxiety, and frustration might find indirect expression sometimes in my writings here. Sometimes reading a bunch of blatantly misogynistic comments that serve to ruin the one thing I felt like I had to look forward to that day just serves as the icing on the cake that makes me feel like I'm being made fun of by a whole community of people I associate myself with and makes me feel like I simply must have some sympathy from somebody somewhere. And then people like yourself tell me that can't have that and that I'm a wimpy snowflake (as politely as you can manage).

Obviously you aren't at the same level as our Captain, but your initial post still struck me as an overreaction because most of the jokes made fun of IGN's reviewers rather than being driven by homophobia and/or sexism.

But here you shed light on how you felt on that particular day and it makes me understand that I came across as a jerk. That wasn't my intention, but it was perceived that way nonetheless, so I apologize. I'm sorry for any grief my previous two posts may have caused.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Shipments

I was curious about this whole comments issue and figured I'd check some things out. I've had a look at YouTube comments for The Last of Us 2, FFVII:R, Resident Evil 3:Remake and Red Dead Redemption 2 and Half-life Alyx.

TLOU2 is the only one featuring these meme-ing on IGN type comments. I thought it might be reserved for 10/10 games so that's why I checked RDR2 and HL:A but comments are mostly serious there. Same for FFVII:R and RE3:R. It's nothing conclusive because my survey was very fast but it does seem TLOU2 has been targeted for some reason.

Even the comments that are not bashing Ellie's sexuality seem to be suggesting that IGN has been bought by either Sony or Naughty Dog :

"This review has been approved by Naughty Dog and Sony" 10/10 - IGN
“We were once considered respectable journalists in the game industry.” 10/10 IGN

Mixed into that there's people trashing ND for their bad treatment of their developers.

So, I do feel there's a crowd of people attacking the game because of its "agenda" and that it wouldn't have happened had the game featured Joel as the protagonist. It's sad to see how popular those comments are (even if it's mostly stupid teenagers upvoting).

Last edited by TruckOSaurus - on 17 June 2020

Signature goes here!

The problem with the internet is it gives a platform and a megaphone to the loudest loudmouths, which also tend to be the more extreme, aggressive, and dick-ish types.

It's best to remember that something a comments section, especially on an IGN review, is very much a bubble, not a vertical slice of the real world.

I mean, remember when it seemed like the whole world hated Pokemon Sword/Shield and was going to boycott it, but then it went on to set a new launch record in sales? It's like that, outspoken gamers are a vocal minority within a vocal minority, thankfully.

Don't get me wrong, these kind of comments are still shit and there are a lot of homophobes and douchebags in the world, but the internet paints a bleaker picture than is actually true because the loudest 1% shout over the other 99% who have better things to do than post trash on a youtube game review.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

TruckOSaurus said:
I was curious about this whole comments issue and figured I'd check some things out. I've had a look at YouTube comments for The Last of Us 2, FFVII:R, Resident Evil 3:Remake and Red Dead Redemption 2 and Half-life Alyx.

TLOU2 is the only one featuring these meme-ing on IGN type comments. I thought it might be reserved for 10/10 games so that's why I checked RDR2 and HL:A but comments are mostly serious there. Same for FFVII:R and RE3:R. It's nothing conclusive because my survey was very fast but it does seem TLOU2 has been targeted for some reason.

Even the comments that are not bashing Ellie's sexuality seem to be suggesting that IGN has been bought by either Sony or Naughty Dog :

"This review has been approved by Naughty Dog and Sony" 10/10 - IGN
“We were once considered respectable journalists in the game industry.” 10/10 IGN

Mixed into that there's people trashing ND for their bad treatment of their developers.

So, I do feel there's a crowd of people attacking the game because of its "agenda" and that it wouldn't have happened had the game featured Joel has the protagonist. It's sad to see how popular those comments are (even if it's mostly stupid teenagers upvoting).

I'd just add the caveat that I kind of doubt it's mostly teenagers doing the up-voting. I mean considering how many of the comments reference wives. The 'it's just teenagers' assessment also just doesn't make a lot of sense in that I think we kinda know that younger people tend to be more progressive than older people.

There's also a reason why I choose the term misogyny to describe the situation here more than homophobia. Take another look at the samples I highlighted earlier. You'll find it's much more common for heterosexual women to get lumped into these critiques of Ellie than it is for gay men to. (Hence all the references to wives and their boyfriends and such.)

Last edited by Jaicee - on 16 June 2020

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RolStoppable said:

Obviously you aren't at the same level as our Captain, but your initial post still struck me as an overreaction because most of the jokes made fun of IGN's reviewers rather than being driven by homophobia and/or sexism.

But here you shed light on how you felt on that particular day and it makes me understand that I came across as a jerk. That wasn't my intention, but it was perceived that way nonetheless, so I apologize. I'm sorry for any grief my previous two posts may have caused.

The apology is accepted. However, we still definitely disagree about the underlying essence of the comments.



Hey, just wanted to mention that the movie Portrait of a Lady on Fire comes out on video tomorrow! I can't recommend it enough! It's seriously like the best lesbian romance I've ever seen on film...which I think has much to do with the fact that, unlike so many others, this one was actually directed by a lesbian. It's way more authentic, and also I think insightful about just how emotional intimacy actually works.

Also, small trivia: outside of its native France, Portrait of a Lady on Fire was the most successful at the South Korean box office. A little surprising, no? I don't think people often perceive South Korea as a particularly accepting place when it comes to same-sex relationships, but lesbian feminism has actually become among the more prominent varieties there in the last several years. Lesbian feminism isn't even a movement that still exists in an organized way here in the Western world anymore, but there are tens of thousands of women interacting with it in South Korea right now! What we call the fourth feminist wave here in the Western world (which essentially refers to the upsurge of the last five or ten years) has taken on a totally different form in South Korea that has absolutely nothing to do with like intersectionality theory or anything like that. I've found it very distinctive and fascinating to watch unfold. Anyway, I definitely think the prominence of lesbian feminism in South Korea is definitely related to this film's surprising success there.

Well anyway, just wanted to strongly recommend the movie.

(Also, I promise to get off this media kick and do more substantive posts here at some point. )

Last edited by Jaicee - on 22 June 2020

Well, early reports suggest TLOU2 is the fastest selling PS4 game ever, so I think it's safe to say at this point that the "lol oppressed homos 10/10" crowd are just a loudmouthed minority. :)



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

curl-6 said:
Well, early reports suggest TLOU2 is the fastest selling PS4 game ever, so I think it's safe to say at this point that the "lol oppressed homos 10/10" crowd are just a loudmouthed minority. :)

I coulda told you that! 



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

Top 6 this generation: 
Bloodborne, Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice, God of War, The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, Dark Souls III, Red Dead Redemption II, Rock Band 4

So last time (which was way back in June) I promised to make more substantive posts to this thread. Alright, I've got something. This video caught my eye this morning, so I checked it out...

...and it just hit home with me. I've had very little success in dating myself. Of course I have several mental health issues that just make me difficult to live with really, but like Rowan says, being gay and on the asexuality spectrum also makes it qualitatively more difficult than it seems like it would otherwise be. There are just numerous issues. I cannot just assume that someone I might be interested in shares my orientation let alone an interest specifically in me, for example, because in all likelihood she doesn't.  What's more, in my particularly small and heavily religious community, it just doesn't feel that safe to be out (no one here is) and there are no gay bars or gay clubs or anything like that in town (there is THE bar); you have to travel quite a ways. And as a kid in like middle school and high school, of course things like clubs and bars weren't options for one anyway. Also, bars and clubs are just very sexual environments and casual sex isn't really of interest to me. I want a relationship.

In as far as I have been able to date other girls/women before, it has been through some combination of little miracles and no small amount of effort and also almost exclusively informal. Honestly, I've been on quite a few more fake dates with guys I've trusted (to advance the appearance of heterosexuality so people won't suspect me for being alone for so long) than I have been on real ones.

The in thing now, especially with the coronavirus out there these days, is like online dating. Those sorts of options that weren't there when I was younger being there now does help a little! But like Rowan says, you wind up mostly just being directed to men and to like women who just want to use you as a fetish (like for a "bi" threesome more likely than a date), stuff like that.

I don't know what I want out of anyone here in terms of a response, I'm just voicing a frustration. I feel like she does; just like afraid I'm going to wind up spending the rest of my life alone. Anyone else felt like that before?