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trunkswd said:

I still don't understand how NFTs work or what is even the point of them.

Simplified.



...to avoid getting banned for inactivity, I may have to resort to comments that are of a lower overall quality and or beneath my moral standards.

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shikamaru317 said:

It kind of seems to me like NFT has become a bit of a boogeyman here lately. People see the word and automatically think "that's pure evil" because a media narrative seems to be conditioning them to think that way. Most are probably just sheep who couldn't even tell you what NFT is an acronym for if you asked them, and even if they do know it stands for Non Fungible Token, they probably couldn't tell you what a Non Fungible Token is. I'll be honest and say that even I don't have a very clear understanding of what it is, beyond that it's a digital piece of media coded to allow unique ownership backed by cryptocurrency for it's value.

Much of the hate seems to be based on environmental alarmism, but do we know how much of the crypto is being mined on non-sustainable vs sustainable power sources? It seems to me like if you were to mine crypto, you would want to run your mining farm on renewable energy, as electricity cost is your one and only source of overhead when mining, solar and wind are free after the initial setup cost, meaning you eventually reach a point where you are printing money for free if you mine on renewable energy. I haven't the foggiest idea what the actual statistics are about how many are mining on renewable vs non-renewable though. Seems to me like crypto has a bright future if more people begin to mine on solar and wind. If I had the capital, I would probably get some solar panels on my roof and a couple of wind turbines and some mining rigs and print money for myself, lol. 

I agree with you to an extent, till you realize the possibilities of how gaming companies can exploit the crap out of a system like this. The justification for years regarding loot boxes or microtransactions from companies, other than it being a way to earn money from a FTP title, was that it wasn't gambling because the items you had didn't have any monetary value. 

That thought process completely changes as now every item you get now has monetary value. Ubisoft's marketing for Quartz is that players can now become "stakeholders" in their games. But when it comes to literally every single aspect of items such as this, it's completely under Ubisoft's control. CS:GO is an example of how bad a system like this can get whenever a digital item has monetary value. And this is without actual supervision by Valve. Knives in the Steam marketplace for CS:GO run upwards of $1000. That's just with how bad it is with players. When the company enters the foray and can take royalties from sales like this, the negative possibilities are endless. Imagine seeing items that are $100 for nothing more than a JPEG lol. Companies will see big $$$ if this catches on. Blizzard attempted something like this with Diablo 3's auction house. 

You don't see microtransaction prices rising higher than like $20 a skin, which is ludicrous as is. If Ubisoft sees a particular NFT skin is super popular, they can then raise the value of the item, therefore people will be spending say $60 instead of $20. And companies already know people are willing to spend on microtransactions, so they know they can get away with it. Think of it as owning a share of a company, only that share doesn't actually exist. 

Granted, none of this has happened yet. But the fact that companies are starting to push this means that gaming will no longer be just a time investment. It'll be an investment investment, and worse, you never actually own this item that supposedly has monetary value. It's just a bunch of 1's and 0's that the company that created it holds the rights to.

I guess my biggest issue with this prospect is that I don't want real life economical elements seeping into my games. I just want games to be games. I wanna escape from all that stuff. That's the whole point of video games, escapism. It now just feels like I'm trying to avoid business scheme traps. 

Last edited by G2ThaUNiT - on 15 December 2021

Ryuu96 said:

This sums up NFTs @trunkswd

Hahahah brilliant! Goes along perfectly with this line from my previous comment:

"Imagine seeing items that are $100 for nothing more than a JPEG lol"



Hell, Phil Spencer already put in his 2 cents on the topic:

https://kotaku.com/xbox-boss-phil-spencer-talks-about-exploitive-nfts-1848071039

Granted, he may not always view them as negative lol but at least he does for now.



I collect NFTs so I actually think it’s pretty cool that STALKER 2 is implementing it. Gotta see how they do it though.



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shikamaru317 said:

It kind of seems to me like NFT has become a bit of a boogeyman here lately. People see the word and automatically think "that's pure evil" because a media narrative seems to be conditioning them to think that way. Most are probably just sheep who couldn't even tell you what NFT is an acronym for if you asked them, and even if they do know it stands for Non Fungible Token, they probably couldn't tell you what a Non Fungible Token is. I'll be honest and say that even I don't have a very clear understanding of what it is, beyond that it's a digital piece of media coded to allow unique ownership backed by cryptocurrency for it's value.

Much of the hate seems to be based on environmental alarmism, but do we know how much of the crypto is being mined on non-sustainable vs sustainable power sources? It seems to me like if you were to mine crypto, you would want to run your mining farm on renewable energy, as electricity cost is your one and only source of overhead when mining, solar and wind are free after the initial setup cost, meaning you eventually reach a point where you are printing money for free if you mine on renewable energy. I haven't the foggiest idea what the actual statistics are about how many are mining on renewable vs non-renewable though. Seems to me like crypto has a bright future if more people begin to mine on solar and wind. If I had the capital, I would probably get some solar panels on my roof and a couple of small wind turbines and some mining rigs and print money for myself, lol. 

This most people who hate on NFTs have no idea what they’re talking about. Sheep mentality.



jason1637 said:
shikamaru317 said:

It kind of seems to me like NFT has become a bit of a boogeyman here lately. People see the word and automatically think "that's pure evil" because a media narrative seems to be conditioning them to think that way. Most are probably just sheep who couldn't even tell you what NFT is an acronym for if you asked them, and even if they do know it stands for Non Fungible Token, they probably couldn't tell you what a Non Fungible Token is. I'll be honest and say that even I don't have a very clear understanding of what it is, beyond that it's a digital piece of media coded to allow unique ownership backed by cryptocurrency for it's value.

Much of the hate seems to be based on environmental alarmism, but do we know how much of the crypto is being mined on non-sustainable vs sustainable power sources? It seems to me like if you were to mine crypto, you would want to run your mining farm on renewable energy, as electricity cost is your one and only source of overhead when mining, solar and wind are free after the initial setup cost, meaning you eventually reach a point where you are printing money for free if you mine on renewable energy. I haven't the foggiest idea what the actual statistics are about how many are mining on renewable vs non-renewable though. Seems to me like crypto has a bright future if more people begin to mine on solar and wind. If I had the capital, I would probably get some solar panels on my roof and a couple of small wind turbines and some mining rigs and print money for myself, lol. 

This most people who hate on NFTs have no idea what they’re talking about. Sheep mentality.

Ryuu96 and I have put all over this page the dangers of NFTs in games lol



gtotheunit91 said:
jason1637 said:

This most people who hate on NFTs have no idea what they’re talking about. Sheep mentality.

Ryuu96 and I have put all over this page the dangers of NFTs in games lol

Nah, what y’all said can already and is already being done through micro transactions. I’d honestly prefer NFTs than MTX so o can sell skins or in game objects or trade them when I wanna use different skins. 



shikamaru317 said:
Machiavellian said:

This is where you are not being realistic, its not about a question of doing more, the market just isn't there.  The market probably never will be there because there are 2 very strong native products that gets everything and there is no reason for those developers to actually care about the meager sales of the MS products.  Even then, what sales in Japan is more mobile than consoles and if we look on the console side, its Nintendo then everything else.  MS tried the whole buying exclusives and buying support and it barely got them anything.  The thing is, if a Japanese customer want a system that is going to play Japanese games, there is absolutely no reason to ever look at the MS systems. MS games in general do not cater to the Japanese market so its less likely that any of their first party games will do any real penetration.

I disagree that the market isn't there. The Japanese home console market is smaller, but it is still there, and Xbox could have pretty significant chunk of that marketshare if they tried hard enough, a big enough chunk that more 3rd party developers would think twice about skipping Xbox by default or taking Sony hat money like Square has been doing. To say that buying JP exclusives in Japan in gen 7 got them nothing is simply false. OG Xbox sales in Japan were nearly non-existent by 2005 when 360 released, it was an extremely front loaded system. Those early JP exclusives for 360, some of which Peter Moore paid for, and some of which 360 got by default because PS2 wasn't powerful enough to run the developers' vision, paved the way for 360 to sell more than 3x as many consoles over the course of gen 7 as OG Xbox sold over the course of gen 6. Think how much more Xbox 360 would have sold in Japan if Don Mattrick hadn't discontinued Peter Moore's JP exclusive initiative halfway into the generation? The last JP 360 exclusive of significance was released in 2009, if Xbox had had big JP exclusives for 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013, 360 could have maybe sold another 1m or more in Japan for 2.6m or more total. 2.6m 360's would have been a large enough install base moving into gen 8 that JP developers wouldn't have ignored Xbox One early in gen 8, and those big JP exclusives for Xbox One over the course of it's lifetime would have allowed Xbox One to maintain a good chunk of 360's market, and Xbox Series would now be getting alot more JP support than it is. It's a cascade effect. But because Don Mattrick abandoned the Japan initiative after 2009, many JP developers and publishers felt slighted by Microsoft, and chose to completely ignore Xbox One. Don Mattrick realized his mistake too late and tried to buy Xbox One a few exclusives like Dead Rising 3 and Scalebound, but by then it was too late, JP gamers and most JP 3rd party publishers had abandoned Xbox as a result of feeling slighted by Microsoft's sudden abandonment from 2009-2013. 

You keep saying Phil and company needs to do more but you have no clue what they are actually doing.  You do not know how many deals they are making or what's in the process or how tough it is to get commitment from studios that see the Xbox as nothing more than some niche piece of hardware.  Having no information on the challenge that MS must go through to get just the crumbs they get today shows just how uninterested Japanese developers are towards the MS products.

Basically nobody knows what they are doing in regards to Japan, some insiders have claimed to, such as Nick and Ed from Xbox Era claiming that Persona would come to Xbox, but here we are 9 months after they claimed that and the Persona 4 Arena Ultimax remaster is skipping Xbox One/Xbox Series even though the original game was on Xbox 360. All any of us can comment on is Xbox's current results in Japan. And what are the current results? Well, JP 3rd party multiplat support is significantly better than it was at the beginning of Xbox One's life at least, thanks to Phil's frequent flights to Japan to drum up support over the last 6 or so years, but around half of all JP 3rd party games big enough to get a release in the west are still skipping Xbox. But, on the downside, we are a year into the generation and we have yet to see a single JP exclusive of significance for Xbox Series, and not even a single one is announced for the future either, we just have vague rumors of some Kojima Cloud exclusive in the works. Even Xbox One, as laughable as it's JP support was, had Dead Rising 3 (not JP made, rather Canadian made, but the franchise was originally JP developed and was popular in Japan), Crimson Dragon, D4, and Scalebound all either announced or released at this point in it's life cycle. The whole point is that Xbox wouldn't be having these issues if it hadn't been for that 4 year stint of ignoring Japan to focus on Kinect that Don Mattrick did, he burned so many bridges during those 4 years and decimated everything that Peter Moore had built. The effects of Don Mattrick's idiocy are still being felt now, more than 10 years after he made the decision to abandon Peter Moore's JP exclusive initiative. 

The thing is, you want immediate results but that's not going to happen.  Its probably going to take more than a few years of solid selling to make these developers even consider porting their games and even still MS may never get beyond being a niche piece of hardware in Japan.

Never said I wanted immediate results. I fully acknowledge that it takes time to build a market for an American console in a market that primarily buys Japanese products due to a strong sense of nationalism. It is doable though, just look at how Apple beats JP made Android phones in Japan. Xbox was carving out a spot for themselves in the JP market under Peter Moore's JP exclusives initiative, and then Don Mattrick utterly decimated those efforts in just 4 years when he stopped buying JP exclusives and largely stopped talking to JP 3rd party publishers about their upcoming games, the effects of which are still being felt today.

We are now about 6 years into Phil Spencer's attempt to undo the damage that Don Mattrick wrought. That is anything but wanting immediate results. Spencer absolutely can do more than he seems to be doing. Getting 3rd party multiplat JP support with his semi-frequent flights to Japan is nice and all, but he has the absolutely huge wallet of Microsoft backing him now that Satya Nadella considers Xbox and PC gaming to be core products for Microsoft. There are definitely JP developers who are willing to make JP 2nd party exclusives for Xbox, and Phil Spencer seems to be largely ignoring them, for instance Itagaki has gone on record saying he would love to make another JP exclusive for Xbox, saying that all Microsoft has to do is contact him. There are absolutely JP 3rd party publishers who would take Microsoft's money for 1 year timed exclusivity deals, if they'll take Sony and Nintendo money for timed exclusivity, I can guarantee you that they'll take MS money as well; MS might have to pay them more than they would have had to pay them in the 360 days, but it takes money to build a market in Japan, it's impossible to do it without spending a significant chunk of money. There are also JP 3rd party publishers and developers who would stop skipping Xbox on multiplat releases if MS simply paid them to make Xbox ports and release those Xbox ports on Gamepass day one, we have already seen that with Yakuza and MS could use the same strategy to win over other developers who skip Xbox like Atlus and Nihon Falcom. There are JP developers who would probably allow themselves to be acquired by Xbox if it meant a steady budget coming in, no more having to warry about churning out small game after small game just to keep the lights on. I could name you several JP devs that would have probably allowed MS to acquire them just a few years ago, sadly now MS has squandered most of those opportunities, as the Chinese publishers have capitalized on Microsoft's weakness and made partial acquisitions of those studios to prevent MS from fully acquiring them. There is also the fact that MS could be building new JP 1st party studios from the ground up, something which they seemingly have never attempted. 

The only real way I see MS really getting a foothold is Gamepass but not the way you think.  Its not about keeping Japanese games on the platform its about increasing the reach of the service into Japanese homes.  If MS can get more of a mobile foothold then they have a chance to penetrate the market because mobile rules in Japan.

That is the beauty of xCloud though. Japanese gamers would love to have JP games that will play on both there Xbox at home and there Phone on the train to work or whatever, it is the exact same concept that has made Switch so huge in Japan, console and mobile combined into one system. xCloud does present MS with an opportunity, on that I agree. MS must now seize that opportunity and get plenty of JP games onto Gamepass and xCloud. Release what is essentially a Cloud based Xbox handheld, something which Razor is reportedly working on, giving Japanese gamers something with physical buttons which they can use to play there Xbox games on the train or whatever, so that they don't have to use touch controls on console games that were never designed to work well on touch.

Answers in bold

The market is not there for MS because MS has been at it for over a decade and they have made no real inroads.  Even during MS best effort, they still did not sell anywhere close to Nintendo or Sony.  The Xbox does not sell enough in Japan, and the amount of investment it probably would take to just get content probably just not worth it.  

Case in point, lets say MS had a chance to purchase exclusive FF7 remake.  Now if we go by how much it cost MS to purchase exclusive for Tomb Raider, they would have probably had to pay 500 million just to raise any attention.  With that kind of money, they probably could get day one exclusive for a years worth of content on GP.  MS probably could put that money towards a purchase of a studio.  Hell, MS probably could do a hell of a lot with the amount of money it probably takes to just get a years exclusive on some Japanese game instead of moving the needle forward.  After Tomb Raiders, MS is done playing that game because when you are not the market leader, the gains you get are minuscule at best.

As for XCloud, its best if MS continue to flesh out its content and build out 3rd party day one support along with their own.  I am sure if opportunity occurs and the price is right they would put more Japan content on the service like they already do but I am also sure they do have a price now and its no where like it use to be. 

I personally believe that MS should be looking at development studios in Korea, India, China where the price point is much cheaper and the developer work from what I have seen is strong.  They could put a lot of that content day one for way cheaper then trying to cater to Japanese developers and also build and penetrate these markets more.  There is a huge market base that is just begging for MS money that would net way better returns and increase GP subs.  Once GP gets to a certain level, it would then help to open up Japan more as those developers would look to the service to expand their games reach with minimal effort.  As I stated, mobile is the key and its the lionshare where Japanese gamers spend their time and money.  The Console marketshare is owned by Nintendo and Sony and I do not see them giving that up anytime soon.  MS already spent a lot of time with that effort, its time to think different.



jason1637 said:

Nah, what y’all said can already and is already being done through micro transactions. 

Justifying one bad behavior by pointing to another bad behavior? Both suck.



...to avoid getting banned for inactivity, I may have to resort to comments that are of a lower overall quality and or beneath my moral standards.