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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Xbox Empire - Game Pass Surpasses 18m Subscribers

zero129 said:
derpysquirtle64 said:

Of course they should. The issue is, as far as I know, WMR is not suited for gaming and if Steam compatibility list is anything to pay attention to, only around 30-40% of VR games are compatible with WMR headsets. So, if Microsoft doesn't want to create their own hardware (which I believe is the case), they have only two options: partner with Facebook for Oculus or partner with Valve for SteamVR. Actually, Facebook can already be ruled out, because their business model for Oculus is very console-like, they want their customers to buy games from their own store but still allow their headsets to be used with Steam VR games. I don't believe Facebook would want to allow Oculus to work with Xbox, because in this case it's a competing device. You don't need to connect your Oculus Quest to Xbox if Oculus Quest already works as a standalone device. So, this leaves Valve as an only option, but to make it work, Microsoft needs Valve to port all their SteamVR SDK, runtimes and other stuff to Xbox OS. Not an easy task which will probably require MS to pay a huge check for Valve to do it.

The PC WMR headsets are way better then say PSVR Gen1 for gaming. I honestly dont know where this misconception that it isnt comes from. Maybe your thinking of that AR headset MS made?. And every VR game on steam works with it. Just cos it doesnt state it does doesnt mean it doesnt, most games i've tried on steam never mentioned working with WMR headset but worked perfectly. Pretty much WMR headset. Hell it even works with Oculus store games.

Really? That's interesting, I never really hear anything like that, Microsoft has to do a better job at advertising, if that is the case then they should make one compatible with Xbox consoles.



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Huehe.

It's for a good cause so I can't be mad at this teasing.



Ryuu96 said:

Huehe.

It's for a good cause so I can't be mad at this teasing.

$2000 starting bid. I wonder how high it will go?

Edit: Somebody bid the starting $2000 now. 



Ryuu96 said:
zero129 said:

The PC WMR headsets are way better then say PSVR Gen1 for gaming. I honestly dont know where this misconception that it isnt comes from. Maybe your thinking of that AR headset MS made?. And every VR game on steam works with it. Just cos it doesnt state it does doesnt mean it doesnt, most games i've tried on steam never mentioned working with WMR headset but worked perfectly. Pretty much WMR headset. Hell it even works with Oculus store games.

Really? That's interesting, I never really hear anything like that, Microsoft has to do a better job at advertising, if that is the case then they should make one compatible with Xbox consoles.

Indeed they need better marketing, i updated my post to show the Mixed reality steam vr drivers here https://store.steampowered.com/app/719950/Windows_Mixed_Reality_for_SteamVR/

The current first gen headsets are dirt cheap and have a much better tracking and res then the PSVR headset. And the new model here https://www8.hp.com/us/en/vr/reverb-g2-vr-headset.html is an even bigger upgrade. if MS got the price of that headset down to €249-€300 (Its currently like €500) and ported Hellblade VR, Skyrim VR, Fallout VR etc they would have a very good starting point to push sales.



zero129 said:
derpysquirtle64 said:

Of course they should. The issue is, as far as I know, WMR is not suited for gaming and if Steam compatibility list is anything to pay attention to, only around 30-40% of VR games are compatible with WMR headsets. So, if Microsoft doesn't want to create their own hardware (which I believe is the case), they have only two options: partner with Facebook for Oculus or partner with Valve for SteamVR. Actually, Facebook can already be ruled out, because their business model for Oculus is very console-like, they want their customers to buy games from their own store but still allow their headsets to be used with Steam VR games. I don't believe Facebook would want to allow Oculus to work with Xbox, because in this case it's a competing device. You don't need to connect your Oculus Quest to Xbox if Oculus Quest already works as a standalone device. So, this leaves Valve as an only option, but to make it work, Microsoft needs Valve to port all their SteamVR SDK, runtimes and other stuff to Xbox OS. Not an easy task which will probably require MS to pay a huge check for Valve to do it.

The PC WMR headsets are way better then say PSVR Gen1 for gaming. I honestly dont know where this misconception that it isnt comes from. Maybe your thinking of that AR headset MS made?. And every VR game on steam works with it. Just cos it doesnt state it does doesnt mean it doesnt, most games i've tried on steam never mentioned working with WMR headset but worked perfectly. Hell it even works with Oculus store games.

It also uses the SteamVR drivers https://store.steampowered.com/app/719950/Windows_Mixed_Reality_for_SteamVR/

I never said that in my post. Especially because you can't compare apples to oranges. PS VR is just a one headset. WMR is more like a platform which is used by lots of headsets. Hardware-wise, some of them could be better than PSVR, some not. But from what I've seen the majority of WMR headsets are technically better because a lot of them are more modern than PSVR. What I was saying is that game dev support for WMR is quite low compared to Oculus or SteamVR headsets. The app you linked, it's great. It seems like this is a compatibility layer created by MS to run any SteamVR game on WMR. But the fact still stands, it's more like an emulation. It won't work on a console, because it is a wrapper which runs on top of SteamVR. If you don't have SteamVR in the first place, it won't work.

The quote from the app page:

For Developers

Windows Mixed Reality for SteamVR allows developers to test and optimize their SteamVR experiences for Windows Mixed Reality headsets. Once you've setup Windows Mixed Reality for SteamVR go to the developer documentation to learn more about tuning your Steam application for Windows Mixed Reality.

I suppose this app also has some dev tools which should help devs to port existing SteamVR games to WMR which is nice.

But now, let's get back to the facts based on Steam Search:

- Valve Index - 5161 results (https://store.steampowered.com/search/?vrsupport=105)

- HTC Vive - 5497 results (https://store.steampowered.com/search/?vrsupport=101)

- Oculus Rift - 4213 results (https://store.steampowered.com/search/?vrsupport=102)

- WMR - 1671 results (https://store.steampowered.com/search/?vrsupport=104)



 

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zero129 said:
Ryuu96 said:

Really? That's interesting, I never really hear anything like that, Microsoft has to do a better job at advertising, if that is the case then they should make one compatible with Xbox consoles.

Indeed they need better marketing, i updated my post to show the Mixed reality steam vr drivers here https://store.steampowered.com/app/719950/Windows_Mixed_Reality_for_SteamVR/

The current first gen headsets are dirt cheap and have a much better tracking and res then the PSVR headset. And the new model here https://www8.hp.com/us/en/vr/reverb-g2-vr-headset.html is an even bigger upgrade. if MS got the price of that headset down to €249-€300 (Its currently like €500) and ported Hellblade VR, Skyrim VR, Fallout VR etc they would have a very good starting point to push sales.

Very nice. Yeah, I definitely think MS needs to do the following:

-Make WMR compatible with Xbox Series within about a year, year and a half.

-Release an Xbox branded WMR headset and motion controllers alongside the launch of WMR for Xbox or shortly afterward, think something like the recent Xbox Audio Headset in terms of style and design. Aim for specs that match or beat what Sony is planning for PSVR2, with a comparable price tag.

-Start building out a VR first party immediately, which will release exclusively to WMR to drive WMR sales. Ninja Theory already has some VR experience from Darth Vader VR, get them working on Hellblade 2 and Project Mara VR versions. Bethesda already made a big VR push with Fallout 4 VR, Doom VFR, and Wolfenstein Cyberpilot, build out some teams for future VR games at those studios on series like Starfield, Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Doom, Wolfenstein, and Dishonored. Racing is well suited for VR so build out a VR team at either Playground or Turn 10 for a Forza VR game. Start building out a VR team at 343 working on a Flood based horror game or maybe a Halo space combat game. Maybe acquire a few VR studios. Release a few of these first party VR exclusives alongside the launch of WMR for Xbox Series, if they can get them done that quickly (hopefully some of the Bethesda studios already had some more VR games in development that could be made WMR exclusive and release alongside WMR for Xbox.)

-Start partnering with 3rd party devs to get some WMR compatible VR games on Gamepass for PC now, try to get some big ones like Beat Saber. Have some 1st, 2nd, and 3rd party VR games ready for the launch of Xbox WMR support alongside the addition of VR games to Xbox Gamepass, including day one Gamepass for 1st/2nd party VR games.

Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 23 February 2021

100% for getting into VR. Failing to do so was one of Microsoft's worst 8th-gen blunders.



Yeah VR is nowhere near mainstream.

Oculus Quest 2 is estimated to have sold about 1.1m units in Q4 2020 when it launched.
Good numbers but still far behind the heavily supply constrained consoles. On top of that it doesn't really show by how much the VR sector has grown. Series X|S selling 3m units doesn't mean the Xbox community has grown by 3m people. So there's a good chance that the existing VR userbase has decided to upgrade their old device.
And when you look at other competitors that didn't launch during that period, the sales are pretty poor.

"PlayStation VR sold more than 125,000 units in the same period. Valve Index and the older Oculus Rift sold around 60,000 and 55,000 units respectively between September and December 2020."
https://segmentnext.com/2021/02/02/oculus-quest-2-sales-record/

With that said, I'm not against VR at all, it's just not big enough to be relevant.



Ryuu96 said:
Machiavellian said:

You are looking at this wrong.  Either one of those companies have huge services that reach millions of users which as a service company which MS has transitioned to, gives them the ability to upsell their services to.  Everything MS does is geared toward a more service based company where they view building platforms as services with million of users than actually selling individual software.  Even Google, Facebook another these other services shone just advertising alone on these services bring in huge amount of cash.

Its not about short term or long term goal, its about what fits MS current strategy and how they seek to position themselves in the future.

Nah I agree with that, I get why they acquired Linkedin, Github and why they want TikTok US and Pinterest, I was simply pointing out that none of them will be making huge profits anytime soon and not everything is as black and white as short term profits.

Basically if Microsoft is truly a service company, and wants to push their service (Game Pass) as much as possible, then the fact is the best way of doing that would be not releasing these titles on Playstation consoles cause releasing them on Playstation consoles still gives millions of gamers no reason to switch to an ecosystem which actually has Game Pass.

Plus we know Game Pass will be pushing xCloud too, which is pushing Azure, that is Microsoft's #1 focus right now.

True, but will that in the short term move significant subs or generate a lot of animosity.  Gamers can be very petty in that sense especially when you are moving established series from their platform of choice.  In the long term, yes but the short term, I believe no.  That then leads to my revelation below.

You know something, I missed something very important.  I had a long write up on MS strategy until I got to the point where the web based browser that MS is extending Gamepass to be able to play games on just about any device that supports a browser is a key technology.  Now I can actually see MS going full exclusive if they believe their entry point to Nintendo and PS customers is through that browser.  

MS main goal is Gamepass and with that goal is to reach any and all devices that can play games.  Xcloud is the key but still not there yet but if we think about 5G its not that far off.  Xcloud and that web based way to play Gamepass games give MS the entry point to all devices including Sony and Nintendo without having to care if they like it or not.

Hmmm, I still believe its too soon for all of Bethesda games to go full exclusive but the framework is definitely being built.



Machiavellian said:
Ryuu96 said:

Nah I agree with that, I get why they acquired Linkedin, Github and why they want TikTok US and Pinterest, I was simply pointing out that none of them will be making huge profits anytime soon and not everything is as black and white as short term profits.

Basically if Microsoft is truly a service company, and wants to push their service (Game Pass) as much as possible, then the fact is the best way of doing that would be not releasing these titles on Playstation consoles cause releasing them on Playstation consoles still gives millions of gamers no reason to switch to an ecosystem which actually has Game Pass.

Plus we know Game Pass will be pushing xCloud too, which is pushing Azure, that is Microsoft's #1 focus right now.

True, but will that in the short term move significant subs or generate a lot of animosity.  Gamers can be very petty in that sense especially when you are moving established series from their platform of choice.  In the long term, yes but the short term, I believe no.  That then leads to my revelation below.

You know something, I missed something very important.  I had a long write up on MS strategy until I got to the point where the web based browser that MS is extending Gamepass to be able to play games on just about any device that supports a browser is a key technology.  Now I can actually see MS going full exclusive if they believe their entry point to Nintendo and PS customers is through that browser.  

MS main goal is Gamepass and with that goal is to reach any and all devices that can play games.  Xcloud is the key but still not there yet but if we think about 5G its not that far off.  Xcloud and that web based way to play Gamepass games give MS the entry point to all devices including Sony and Nintendo without having to care if they like it or not.

Hmmm, I still believe its too soon for all of Bethesda games to go full exclusive but the framework is definitely being built.

Hmm, I would like to agree but I think PS5/Switch actually block browsers

So does Xbox, I think it was a security thing? None of the new consoles have a web based browser IIRC.

But I think, xCloud will be in enough places anyway without them, GamePass/xCloud by the end of this year will be on Xbox, PC, iOS, Android, Smart TVs, etc.

It'd be cool if they did xCloud sticks like them little FireTV Sticks too.