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KiigelHeart on 22 August 2021
crissindahouse said:

The thing is that if a full delay doesn't change the parts of the game you can get already this year then it's a stupid delay as long as you don't care about what reviewers or fanboy of other systems will say

You're the one who brought up fanboys of other systems. That's not what bad PR is about. You can't seriously believe it was only fanboys upset about shortconings or launch issues on other Xbox games. No split-screen on Halo5 for example. Which also affects the percentage of people who played it co-op btw.



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AngryLittleAlchemist on 22 August 2021

People are saying 7.5% isn't a lot for co-op but also doesn't Halo 5 not have splitscreen?

With both online and couch co-op (and probably cross-platform, though MCC only has cross-platform for PVP) co-op would be way bigger than in 5. You only have one way to play co op in Halo 5.



Machiavellian on 22 August 2021
KiigelHeart said:
Machiavellian said:

That's actually the point.  Why delay the game just so that people who want co-op.  Since you will wait until its in the game then why punish the people who actually do not care if co-op is in the game at launch.  I mean I actually really do not care if co-op or forge is in the game at launch.  I usually do not like my first run in a game in co-op.  Also forge is not something that needs to be in the MP at launch as most will play the stock maps and get use to them first before delving in the forge stuff.

There is absolutly no need to hold up the game for those features since there is a huge community that will play the game without it.  For people who want Co-op and forge, well you still have the option to just wait until its released.

Oh get out with that nonsense. Delaying a game to actually deliver a complete product isn't a punishment. They should aim to knock this launch out of the park instead of upsetting a big chunk of fanbase. 

Fanbase going to be upset no matter what so might as well satisfy the people who do not care about those features.  Those are not part of the game worth delaying.  The main component is the campaign.  Why should any gamer who wants to play the campaign without co-op have to wait for that feature.  If it so much a big item for you then you can wait for it no one is stopping you.  The 2 major components are the MP and the campaign, everything else is gravy.  I rather 343 put all their effort on what will make or break the game and that is the campaign.  Additional stuff they can concentrate on when they are finished with what counts.  Delaying the game for those particular features is not needed because if they are so important for the people who want it they can just as easily wait until they are available.  Basically you want 343 to cater to you and have everyone wait while the rest of us can be playing what we want now and not care about stuff we will probably never use or care about.

Last edited by Machiavellian - on 22 August 2021

Machiavellian on 22 August 2021
Ryuu96 said:

U'know what, I hate 343 (Kappa)

343 screws up and suddenly every other studio becomes a target too, this isn't the first time we've had these conversations either.

I really dislike the recent trend of reading into every single person leaving a company when we have almost zero indication of why a person left the studio, they could have left for personal reasons, they could have simply wanted a change, the gaming industry has always been pretty volatile, folk often swap jobs in this industry and it is recently, extremely competitive with how big of a market gaming is becoming.

One area I can see that Microsoft can improve on is contract work, they have a policy that contractors can only work for 18 months max and can only be re-hired on contract after a 6 month break, this has been a huge issue for 343i as they heavily rely on contractors (the entire gaming industry does), I'm not sure what the policy is for other companies, should Microsoft lift the limit entirely? Should they remove the break? I don't even know why they have that limit.

I use to work for MS back in the day and the reason they have this contract type of system is very interesting because back when I worked for MS, they fired all their contractors because they lost a legal battle about benefits.  MS use to have contractors in the day that were at the company longer then some execs but they never paid benefits for them.  Well they got sued and lost and any contractor that works longer than guess what 18 months MS has to pay benefits.  It's funny because after they fired all of us, they tried to rehire us later but everyone pretty much had moved on by that time.  I doubt MS will remove that limit as they hire a lot of contractors.



Angelus on 22 August 2021

Literally just wrote out like 8 paragraphs for a post, only to realize that;
1) I'm not a writer for VGC
2) Nobody would bother to actually read all that, and
3) Everyone here has pretty much got their mind made up on how they feel about all this

So...whatever. Cheers to being a statistical minority.



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AngryLittleAlchemist on 22 August 2021
Angelus said:

Literally just wrote out like 8 paragraphs for a post, only to realize that;
1) I'm not a writer for VGC
2) Nobody would bother to actually read all that, and
3) Everyone here has pretty much got their mind made up on how they feel about all this

So...whatever. Cheers to being a statistical minority.

I would read it though. 



Machiavellian on 22 August 2021
Ryuu96 said:
Machiavellian said:

I use to work for MS back in the day and the reason they have this contract type of system is very interesting because back when I worked for MS, they fired all their contractors because they lost a legal battle about benefits.  MS use to have contractors in the day that were at the company longer then some execs but they never paid benefits for them.  Well they got sued and lost and any contractor that works longer than guess what 18 months MS has to pay benefits.  It's funny because after they fired all of us, they tried to rehire us later but everyone pretty much had moved on by that time.  I doubt MS will remove that limit as they hire a lot of contractors.

Didn't know you used to work for Microsoft, that's cool.

But jeez, that sounds scummy, Microsoft in the past has been a real piece of work

So what should they do? It has been said that this contract work is the thing that is hurting 343i a lot, folk coming in and having to get adjusted to working there, 18 months isn't really a long amount of time, especially if the game ends up delayed, then they have to leave and can't be re-hired for another 6 months, so you've got to get someone new in, sounds like a real problem for game developers.

I don't think hiring them all is a viable solution as 343i simply wouldn't have the space, Lol. Unless they make a 2nd studio!

So I suppose this explains why Turn 10 is typically very small (100ish) then they balloon to 300+ around a year before release of a Motorsport title, then once it has released they plummet back down.

This was a long time ago when it was not a big thing to pay benefits to temp employees.  Its actually one of the biggest lawsuits that started the whole thing as far as companies paying temps benefits.  To age myself, I worked at MS when they first released Windows 95.  That should give you some perspective on the time frame when this all went down.

I agree as a developer it usually takes about 2 solid years no matter your experience to really get comfortable with a development environment.  The bigger and more complex the longer it takes and if the developers are not seasoned then 18 months is way to short.  By they time they are willing to hire again those people will be gone or tied up within another long term project.  I am sure this is why paying for support studios is the way to go for a lot of projects as you can just ship out pieces and parts to a project and not worry about that contractor restriction.



Angelus on 22 August 2021
coolbeans said:
Angelus said:

Literally just wrote out like 8 paragraphs for a post, only to realize that;
1) I'm not a writer for VGC
2) Nobody would bother to actually read all that, and
3) Everyone here has pretty much got their mind made up on how they feel about all this

So...whatever. Cheers to being a statistical minority.

Could be worth a quest editorial piece if you want to contact Craig (Machina).

Interesting idea. I'll think about it.



jason1637 on 22 August 2021

What’s the Reddit leak?



jason1637 on 22 August 2021
Ryuu96 said:
jason1637 said:

What’s the Reddit leak?

About the Delays - 343 Employee DEV : halo (reddit.com)

Sorta want to believe it because it paints Joe Staten in a very positive light too But that also makes me doubt its validity, could simply be a fan trying to damage control, sure makes it sound like Campaign has been overhauled significantly but ends with saying morale is high and they think it's going to be a great game, course they could think that but it could also be damage control from a fan as I said.

But as I said the most damaging part is his Pierre comment which isn't true...

This sounds like a mess. What have they been doing the past 6 years? Don’t they sort out how co op, forge and other modes will be implemented during pre production? Sounds like they were making the campaign and realized they had to implement co op when most of the work was done. Also why didn’t they have a team build on Halo 5s forge using the new engine years ago? If any of this is remotely true Bonnie Ross needs to go ASAP. Terrible management at 343i.