Forums - Sony Discussion - How would you feel if the PS5 dev kit design was actually the PS5 design?

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What do you think?

I would be fine with that 19 24.05%
 
It's irrelevant 9 11.39%
 
That looks pretty bad 15 18.99%
 
AMAZING! 8 10.13%
 
That s**t looks awful! 12 15.19%
 
Did we go back to the 90's? 3 3.80%
 
V for Vendetta 3 3.80%
 
Would rather have it look like a box 4 5.06%
 
I just threw up in my mouth a little bit 5 6.33%
 
Should continue to stack ... 1 1.27%
 
Total:79

Guys Sony have made several patents on their costum SSD solution, several very knowledgeable people have looked at those patents, it's a single-tier-solution (no hhd+SSD combo) with speed estimate between 5-10 GB/s. Now about Mark Cerny statement, the fastest SSD at that time was Samsung evo pro 970 which has a 3,5/2,7 GB/s speed.



6x master league achiever in starcraft2

Beaten Sigrun on God of war mode

Beaten DOOM ultra-nightmare with NO endless ammo-rune, 2x super shotgun and no decoys on ps4 pro.

1-0 against Grubby in Wc3 frozen throne ladder!!

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Lafiel said:
Pemalite said:

I have explained it in my prior post. It's called using a PCI-E 3.0 card with the full compliment of 16x PCI-E lanes for a total of 16GB/s of bandwidth.
I suggest you go back and re-read that post rather than making me repeat myself.

then I'm sure you won't have trouble to link a consumer product with these theoretical specifications (available at the time Cerny made his statement)

bonus points if you also provide a review that shows the practically available bandwidth

I sure can.  Here is one such device.


Here is another from Dell using nvme drives on a card.


And they have been around for years.
Here is a review Anandtech did with a drive that did 10GB/s back in 2016 that will beat the PS5 in 2020.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/10125/seagate-announces-pcie-x16-ssd-capable-of-10gbs


And here is another such drive.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/13051/gigabyte-launches-cmt4030-pcie-riser-cards-for-m2-ssds

Is that enough evidence? Or would you like some more?

You also have iSCSI over 100G ethernet SSD's which allows for 13GB/s transfers too.
http://sniansfblog.org/fibre-channel-vs-iscsi-the-great-debate-generates-questions-galore/

Trumpstyle said:

Guys Sony have made several patents on their costum SSD solution, several very knowledgeable people have looked at those patents, it's a single-tier-solution (no hhd+SSD combo) with speed estimate between 5-10 GB/s. Now about Mark Cerny statement, the fastest SSD at that time was Samsung evo pro 970 which has a 3,5/2,7 GB/s speed.

Fake news. That isn't the fastest SSD. See above. Cerny's statement is false.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
Lafiel said:

then I'm sure you won't have trouble to link a consumer product with these theoretical specifications (available at the time Cerny made his statement)

bonus points if you also provide a review that shows the practically available bandwidth

I sure can.  Here is one such device.


Here is another from Dell using nvme drives on a card.


And they have been around for years.
Here is a review Anandtech did with a drive that did 10GB/s back in 2016 that will beat the PS5 in 2020.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/10125/seagate-announces-pcie-x16-ssd-capable-of-10gbs


And here is another such drive.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/13051/gigabyte-launches-cmt4030-pcie-riser-cards-for-m2-ssds

Is that enough evidence? Or would you like some more?

You also have iSCSI over 100G ethernet SSD's which allows for 13GB/s transfers too.
http://sniansfblog.org/fibre-channel-vs-iscsi-the-great-debate-generates-questions-galore/

Trumpstyle said:

Guys Sony have made several patents on their costum SSD solution, several very knowledgeable people have looked at those patents, it's a single-tier-solution (no hhd+SSD combo) with speed estimate between 5-10 GB/s. Now about Mark Cerny statement, the fastest SSD at that time was Samsung evo pro 970 which has a 3,5/2,7 GB/s speed.

Fake news. That isn't the fastest SSD. See above. Cerny's statement is false.

None of your links are reviews or products you can buy, the seagate link is not a review but a announces of possible products in the future. Mark Cerny clearly said PC not enterprise drives which you are talking about even though u can use them on your PC. But it's obvious Mark was talking about the samsung 970 evo pro!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kingston-SEDC1000H-3200G-SSDNow-Solid/dp/B0773CFJFH

https://www.kitguru.net/components/ssd-drives/simon-crisp/kingston-dcp1000-1-6tb-ssd-review-7gb-s-beast/

"Kingston’s DCP1000 SSD sits under the companies Enterprise banner"



6x master league achiever in starcraft2

Beaten Sigrun on God of war mode

Beaten DOOM ultra-nightmare with NO endless ammo-rune, 2x super shotgun and no decoys on ps4 pro.

1-0 against Grubby in Wc3 frozen throne ladder!!

Pemalite said:
Lafiel said:

then I'm sure you won't have trouble to link a consumer product with these theoretical specifications (available at the time Cerny made his statement)

bonus points if you also provide a review that shows the practically available bandwidth

I sure can.  Here is one such device.


Here is another from Dell using nvme drives on a card.


And they have been around for years.
Here is a review Anandtech did with a drive that did 10GB/s back in 2016 that will beat the PS5 in 2020.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/10125/seagate-announces-pcie-x16-ssd-capable-of-10gbs


And here is another such drive.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/13051/gigabyte-launches-cmt4030-pcie-riser-cards-for-m2-ssds

Is that enough evidence? Or would you like some more?

You also have iSCSI over 100G ethernet SSD's which allows for 13GB/s transfers too.
http://sniansfblog.org/fibre-channel-vs-iscsi-the-great-debate-generates-questions-galore/

well, I did ask for consumer products  -  these are enterprise products (wouldn't you agree?) and technically speaking they are RAID on a card devices with several SSDs mounted into M.2 slots on the card

I'm not sure why you even bring iSCSI or fibre channel anywhere close to this debate btw

Last edited by Lafiel - on 25 October 2019

Trumpstyle said:

None of your links are reviews or products you can buy, the seagate link is not a review but a announces of possible products in the future. Mark Cerny clearly said PC not enterprise drives which you are talking about even though u can use them on your PC. But it's obvious Mark was talking about the samsung 970 evo pro!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kingston-SEDC1000H-3200G-SSDNow-Solid/dp/B0773CFJFH

https://www.kitguru.net/components/ssd-drives/simon-crisp/kingston-dcp1000-1-6tb-ssd-review-7gb-s-beast/

"Kingston’s DCP1000 SSD sits under the companies Enterprise banner"

Well. You might not be able to buy them... But I can locally as my outlets stock enterprise/workstation gear. But the point was to demonstrate the existence of the technology... And in particular the form factor.

If you want something more consumer level... You have the Asus Hyper M.2 drive.
https://www.pccasegear.com/products/46518/asus-hyper-m-2-pci-e-x16-v2-expansion-card

You also have the Asrock Ultra Quad M.2.
https://www.asrock.com/mb/spec/product.asp?Model=ULTRA%20QUAD%20M.2%20CARD

There are 2x nvme to PCI-E adapters that get flogged cheaply off ebay, but that would be limited to 8x PCI-E lanes (As each nvme drive has a compliment of 4x PCI-E 3.0 lanes as a max).

Lafiel said:
well, I asked for consumer products - these are enterprise products and technically speaking they are RAID on a card devices with several SSDs mounted into M.2 slots on the card

See above.
And why wouldn't you use multiple nvme cards to achieve it? They are so damn cheap these days.
Memory transactions tend to be highly parallel, thus you use multiple memory chips to increase performance, this just takes that same concept and expands upon it.

Either way. Point is... PC definitely has faster SSD's than the Playstation 5, thus rendering Cerny's prior statement as blatantly false and misleading.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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Pemalite said:

Either way. Point is... PC definitely has faster SSD's than the Playstation 5, thus rendering Cerny's prior statement as blatantly false and misleading.

the point of "multiple SSDs are faster than 1!" isn't a particularly insightful or relevant one in my opinion



I have mixed feelings about the design. Sure, another boring box design wouldn't have been good either, but why a Roman 5? It reminds me a bit of the original Xbox which had a X design. Is it called PSV then instead of PS5? Surely not. But it's confusing.

It looks very big, clunky and heavy, and if the disc slot is 12cm for a normal 4K Blu-ray, this thing WILL be huge. The original fat PS3 was already heavy as hell, but this thing should weigh more than 5 kilogram, maybe even 8kg. It's a tower PC in a different design.

Well, kudos though for such a new design, but well... where shall I put this big heavy thing in my living room?

The only thing that will justify this design will be the new cooling system. If it's quieter than the PS4 Pro starting Jumbo Jet then it's fine. That's the thing which is great with the Switch. It's a quiet system, even at full load the fan is almost inaudible. I don't have a Xbox One X, but with water cooling it should also be quite quiet. ^^



Pemalite said:
Trumpstyle said:

None of your links are reviews or products you can buy, the seagate link is not a review but a announces of possible products in the future. Mark Cerny clearly said PC not enterprise drives which you are talking about even though u can use them on your PC. But it's obvious Mark was talking about the samsung 970 evo pro!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kingston-SEDC1000H-3200G-SSDNow-Solid/dp/B0773CFJFH

https://www.kitguru.net/components/ssd-drives/simon-crisp/kingston-dcp1000-1-6tb-ssd-review-7gb-s-beast/

"Kingston’s DCP1000 SSD sits under the companies Enterprise banner"

Well. You might not be able to buy them... But I can locally as my outlets stock enterprise/workstation gear. But the point was to demonstrate the existence of the technology... And in particular the form factor.

If you want something more consumer level... You have the Asus Hyper M.2 drive.
https://www.pccasegear.com/products/46518/asus-hyper-m-2-pci-e-x16-v2-expansion-card

You also have the Asrock Ultra Quad M.2.
https://www.asrock.com/mb/spec/product.asp?Model=ULTRA%20QUAD%20M.2%20CARD

There are 2x nvme to PCI-E adapters that get flogged cheaply off ebay, but that would be limited to 8x PCI-E lanes (As each nvme drive has a compliment of 4x PCI-E 3.0 lanes as a max).

Lafiel said:
well, I asked for consumer products - these are enterprise products and technically speaking they are RAID on a card devices with several SSDs mounted into M.2 slots on the card

See above.
And why wouldn't you use multiple nvme cards to achieve it? They are so damn cheap these days.
Memory transactions tend to be highly parallel, thus you use multiple memory chips to increase performance, this just takes that same concept and expands upon it.

Either way. Point is... PC definitely has faster SSD's than the Playstation 5, thus rendering Cerny's prior statement as blatantly false and misleading.

Sorry Pemalite, I value your knowledge a lot, but you are really going out of your way to not accept defeat. Everybody and Cerny is talking about regular and available to customer solution. If you so much want to make exotic solutions, multiple cards, etc you can get above that.

As I said before Cerny wasn't lying (and you were also wrong on the fact that they wouldn't put SSD, then that if they put it would be small because of price, and now that it wouldn't be that fast) but certainly not being full transparent and also hyperbolic.

If their solution was faster than any other common solution available for consumer then he wasn't lying, although if you want to be argumentative just to win you can try and go that solutions for super computers would be much above whatever Sony would use. Still that would be irrelevant, because only the craziest would expect a console costing 500 to be more powerful than anything possible on PCs or supercomputer. You don't need to bring very expensive solutions to say Cerny was lying.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

siebensus4 said:
I have mixed feelings about the design. Sure, another boring box design wouldn't have been good either, but why a Roman 5? It reminds me a bit of the original Xbox which had a X design. Is it called PSV then instead of PS5? Surely not. But it's confusing.

It looks very big, clunky and heavy, and if the disc slot is 12cm for a normal 4K Blu-ray, this thing WILL be huge. The original fat PS3 was already heavy as hell, but this thing should weigh more than 5 kilogram, maybe even 8kg. It's a tower PC in a different design.

Well, kudos though for such a new design, but well... where shall I put this big heavy thing in my living room?

The only thing that will justify this design will be the new cooling system. If it's quieter than the PS4 Pro starting Jumbo Jet then it's fine. That's the thing which is great with the Switch. It's a quiet system, even at full load the fan is almost inaudible. I don't have a Xbox One X, but with water cooling it should also be quite quiet. ^^

Don't worry, looking at the size of the disc slot this would be a very big mofo, so it may have a lot of hints to the final design (as were the case with PS2 and PS4 if I'm not wrong) but the consumer HW will be a lot smaller, but sure can look just as ugly in someone opinion.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

siebensus4 said:
I have mixed feelings about the design. Sure, another boring box design wouldn't have been good either, but why a Roman 5? It reminds me a bit of the original Xbox which had a X design. Is it called PSV then instead of PS5? Surely not. But it's confusing.

It looks very big, clunky and heavy, and if the disc slot is 12cm for a normal 4K Blu-ray, this thing WILL be huge. The original fat PS3 was already heavy as hell, but this thing should weigh more than 5 kilogram, maybe even 8kg. It's a tower PC in a different design.

Well, kudos though for such a new design, but well... where shall I put this big heavy thing in my living room?

The only thing that will justify this design will be the new cooling system. If it's quieter than the PS4 Pro starting Jumbo Jet then it's fine. That's the thing which is great with the Switch. It's a quiet system, even at full load the fan is almost inaudible. I don't have a Xbox One X, but with water cooling it should also be quite quiet. ^^

If this is the final design, this won't be the exact size of it. Look at the PS2 dev kit compared to the final console.

I think the final PS5 will be, maybe, 2/3 the size of the devkit. Possibly with the V not being quite so raised up, like there only being 3 or 4 rows of those vents, as opposed to 6.