By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Scarlett Will Prioritize Frame Rate Over Graphics

Tagged games:

 

Do you prefer 60/4k with reduced visuals or 30/4k with increased visuals?

YES! 30 40.00%
 
No. 5 6.67%
 
Depends on the game. 32 42.67%
 
I dont care. 8 10.67%
 
Total:75

Regarding bottlenecking ~ let's take a look.

Is the CPU able to process data fast enough to keep up with the Xbox One X's GPU? Well, considering the relative weakness of the Jaguar CPU in the X, yes, it is often bottlenecked as a result (though you won't see stutters as much as you will just see a higher number of games running @ 4K/30fps versus 4K/60fps). The GPU, on the other hand, isn't, namely because it isn't the one that's slower in the relationship.

Ultimately, the X1X, like the Pro, is very much bottlenecked by the slower part. Not saying the device is 'bad', but it is bottlenecked by the slower CPU. Best example? I have a relatively fast dodeca-core proc running at a max [turbo] speed of 4.4GHz in my PC. The problem? It is nowhere close to as fast as my dual-GPU setup, causing a bottleneck on the proc. It's apparent in games that are more CPU heavy, like Rise of the Tomb Raider (where the GPU has to pick up much of the slack, causing stutters/hiccups/frame drops), and in PC benchmarks (this especially, in fact).

That's the science involved with the Xbox One X as well. This was a different story for the PS3, where the RSX Reality Synthesizer (GPU) was the bottleneck when paired with the super fast, at the time, Cell processor. 

Last edited by CGI-Quality - on 16 December 2019

                                                                                                                                                           

Around the Network
Mr Puggsly said:

No, you dont understand. X1X has unlimited GPU power. Thats obviously what I am trying to say. It doesent suffer from any bottleneck issues.


😆

you win the thread 



Mr Puggsly said:
Pemalite said:

I am NOT telling you to ignore it. Again, those are your words, not mine. - Otherwise I wouldn't have posted it in the first place.

You are twisting and misconstruing my statements to be something they aren't, please stop it.

The point you are missing that I am trying to convey is that all components play a role in framerates.

And the Xbox One X certainly does have a GPU bottleneck issue, otherwise every game would be operating at 4k with ultra settings instead of medium quality at a variable resolution.

We will agree to disagree on the resolution/display thing.

You don't understand what I was saying about GPU bottleneck. You made the point base X1 struggles to achieve 1080p, not relevant but agreed. The X1X on the otherhand can handle similar visuals at much higher resolutions. Hence, X1X has less GPU bottneck issues.

The logic is X1X can hit the highly coveted 1080p resolution often with plenty of GPU power to spare. Thats why there are numerous titles that offer a 60 fps mode at 1080p.

Hence, X1X's massive GPU boost along with a less impressive CPU boost means more games can achieve 60 fps and maybe at 1080p or higher. But the CPU power still isnt there to push all X1 games to 60 fps.

We need to go back to our very basic, oversimplified inverse seesaw analogy.

One side is frame-rate and the other side is how much you push the hardware...the load.  The harder you push the hardware (resolution, effects. A.I., physics, etc...), the lower your frame rate will be.   Now if you take your Xbox One game code and apply to an Xbox One X, you can up the frame rate just because the load for that seesaw (Xbox One X) is less than that same load on the original seesaw (Xbox One).  Keep in mind that the majority of the load is designed for the Xbox One seesaw, not the Xbox One X.  This why you can get a lot of games running at 60 fps on Xbox One X.  It's not because it is more powerful in itself but because the load applied to it isn't pushing it very hard.  There is no load (read: game) that is designed specifically for the Xbox One X itself. 

While yes, a well designed system with few bottlenecks can help more games achieve 60 fps but that's all dependent on the load applied. If you push any component too hard, you're going to have a hard time achieving or maintaining 60 fps.

Again, this analogy is as simplistic as is this chart but it should give you a better understanding that FPS is relevant to the load applied to the device.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

CGI-Quality said:

Regarding bottlenecking ~ let's take a look.

Is the CPU able to process data fast enough to keep up with the Xbox One X's GPU? Well, considering the relative weakness of the Jaguar CPU in the X, yes, it is often bottlenecked as a result (though you won't see stutters as much as you will just see a higher number of games running @ 4K/30fps versus 4K/60fps). The GPU, on the other hand, isn't, namely because it isn't the one that's slower in the relationship.

Ultimately, the X1X, like the Pro, is very much bottlenecked by the slower part. Not saying the device is 'bad', but it is bottlenecked by the slower CPU. Best example? I have a relatively fast dodeca-core proc running at a max [turbo] speed of 4.4GHz in my PC. The problem? It is nowhere close to as fast as my dual-GPU setup, causing a bottleneck on the proc. It's apparent in games that are more CPU heavy, like Rise of the Tomb Raider (where the GPU has to pick up much of the slack, causing stutters/hiccups/frame drops), and in PC benchmarks (this especially, in fact).

That's the science involved with the Xbox One X as well. This was a different story for the PS3, where the RSX Reality Synthesizer (GPU) was the bottleneck when paired with the super fast, at the time, Cell processor. 

I mean, sure the hardware definitely favors the GPU, but there are still plenty of instances where the Xbox One X will be GPU bound as it can't maintain a locked resolution.

It really depends where developers invest their resources, the CPU certainly has been a sticking point all generation long, which is understandable it's AMD's worst CPU at a time when AMD's CPU's were absolutely terrible.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

LudicrousSpeed said:
Mr Puggsly said:

No, you dont understand. X1X has unlimited GPU power. Thats obviously what I am trying to say. It doesent suffer from any bottleneck issues.


😆

you win the thread 

I like Pemalite, but sometimes we are just having two completely different discussions.

"Actually, you're wrong and let me create a different argument to show you why."

It doesn't matter what words I use, its gonna turn into an argument.



Recently Completed
River City: Rival Showdown
for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Around the Network
CGI-Quality said:

Regarding bottlenecking ~ let's take a look.

Is the CPU able to process data fast enough to keep up with the Xbox One X's GPU? Well, considering the relative weakness of the Jaguar CPU in the X, yes, it is often bottlenecked as a result (though you won't see stutters as much as you will just see a higher number of games running @ 4K/30fps versus 4K/60fps). The GPU, on the other hand, isn't, namely because it isn't the one that's slower in the relationship.

Ultimately, the X1X, like the Pro, is very much bottlenecked by the slower part. Not saying the device is 'bad', but it is bottlenecked by the slower CPU.

Pretty much what I am saying.

The Pro and X1X are pretty well equipped in GPU power for current gen games to achieve 60 fps at about 1080p or higher depending on the game and hardware.

Since the mid gen upgrades did a more modest CPU upgrade, 60 fps in many current gen titles is still not feasible. Many games that do aim for 60 fps struggle.

Maybe its possible more games could aim for 60 fps more often if being built around X1X's CPU capabilities, much like Gears 5 and Forza Horizon 4 demonstrate. But that's a lot of work for an experience only X1X users would have. MS actually has an incentive to do that work.



Recently Completed
River City: Rival Showdown
for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Mr Puggsly said:
CGI-Quality said:

Regarding bottlenecking ~ let's take a look.

Is the CPU able to process data fast enough to keep up with the Xbox One X's GPU? Well, considering the relative weakness of the Jaguar CPU in the X, yes, it is often bottlenecked as a result (though you won't see stutters as much as you will just see a higher number of games running @ 4K/30fps versus 4K/60fps). The GPU, on the other hand, isn't, namely because it isn't the one that's slower in the relationship.

Ultimately, the X1X, like the Pro, is very much bottlenecked by the slower part. Not saying the device is 'bad', but it is bottlenecked by the slower CPU.

Pretty much what I am saying.

The Pro and X1X are pretty well equipped in GPU power for current gen games to achieve 60 fps at about 1080p or higher depending on the game and hardware.

Since the mid gen upgrades did a more modest CPU upgrade, 60 fps in many current gen titles is still not feasible. Many games that do aim for 60 fps struggle.

Maybe its possible more games could aim for 60 fps more often if being built around X1X's CPU capabilities, much like Gears 5 and Forza Horizon 4 demonstrate. But that's a lot of work for an experience only X1X users would have. MS actually has an incentive to do that work.

And there is me that in about every single game chose the "pretty graphic" toggle against "performance mode" =p



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Pretty much what I am saying.

The Pro and X1X are pretty well equipped in GPU power for current gen games to achieve 60 fps at about 1080p or higher depending on the game and hardware.

Since the mid gen upgrades did a more modest CPU upgrade, 60 fps in many current gen titles is still not feasible. Many games that do aim for 60 fps struggle.

Maybe its possible more games could aim for 60 fps more often if being built around X1X's CPU capabilities, much like Gears 5 and Forza Horizon 4 demonstrate. But that's a lot of work for an experience only X1X users would have. MS actually has an incentive to do that work.

And there is me that in about every single game chose the "pretty graphic" toggle against "performance mode" =p

Often by default games will be on the Resolution/Visuals Mode. So it must be fine with many.

However, the input latency of an unlocked or 60 fps frame rate is just so much better. So its easy for me to sacrifice some visual fidelity especially if the game looks relatively sharp (1080p) either way.

Still surprises me Gears 5 didn't add a 4K/30 fps mode with other visual improvements. I guess they felt the resolution and visuals were good enough.



Recently Completed
River City: Rival Showdown
for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Please both consoles, please both make 60fps a requirement on your machines. Cause I can't deal with 30 for another generation.



PS4(PS5 Soon)and PC gaming

There's only 2 races: White and 'Political Agenda'
2 Genders: Male and 'Political Agenda'
2 Hairstyles for female characters: Long and 'Political Agenda'
2 Sexualities: Straight and 'Political Agenda'

ArchangelMadzz said:
Please both consoles, please both make 60fps a requirement on your machines. Cause I can't deal with 30 for another generation.

Not happening.