I suppose I fall somewhere in your category of hatedom.
Do I think it was a really bad movie? Yes.
Do I think it "ruined my childhood"? No. I still have those memories and excitement.
But do I think it ruined the franchise? For me, for now, yes. But only because Luke was my childhood idol. He was the epitome of good and who I always wanted to "play as" as a kid. So the way they threw his character a way and turned him into what he turned into...it has an effect on the character from the previous movies. I can't watch the original trilogy and think about how great he is anymore because he tried to kill his nephew in his sleep. Then he became a coward and hid for decades while everyone around him suffered.
I've said many times that I'm fine with it if others still enjoy it. I don't want my disdain ruin others' enjoyment. But, to me, the whole thing is ruined. Maybe they can retcon it somehow, but I really don't know how unless it was all a dream.
Hope you enjoy episode 9, though.
Not liking Luke's character portrayal is in and of itself not a bad opinion. But thinking that it ruins the franchise is, to me, overreacting a bit. Then there's the people that have gone on what a certain Jedi master would call "a damn fool idealistic crusade," which is overreacting a lot. As far as I can tell, you're not one of the latter.
Personally, I didn't have a problem with the way Luke was portrayed in TLJ. But I'm not just a fan of Star Wars. I also enjoy other franchises, like Halo and Star Trek, and they did do some things that bugged me. Halo: Reach jettisoned the entire last third of the novel The Fall of Reach, which was and still nominally is canon. There is no way to reconcile the two, and official policy is that the events of the game overwrite the events of the novel. I didn't like that, and I made my objections known and offered my opinions on how I think things should change in the future, but I didn't feel it ruined the whole franchise. And I sure as hell didn't go into an apoplectic rage fit over it, or demand the game's director or writer be fired, or agitate for a boycott, or write nasty comments towards key Bungie employees on social media, or spend 16 months harping on about it and creating dozens of hours of "shit sux" commentary on YouTube, or go on Metacritic and give it a score of zero (I personally scored it an 8/10, because I enjoyed the gameplay and other non-story elements quite a bit). I essentially got over it, and I didn't let my issues with the game consume me the way people's issues with changes to their object of fandom have consumed them. And that wasn't the first nor the last time a Halo game did some things that I really, really didn't like.
Star Trek: Discovery took a lot of liberties with the established art design, especially in regards to the Klingons. It bugged the hell out of me, because significant artistic inconsistencies create inconsistencies in the fiction. The look of the Klingons was largely unchanged from The Motion Picture in 1979 all the way up to Enterprise in the mid 00s. That look did contradict their look in TOS, but there were practical reasons (not enough budget in TOS to give them a more distinctive look), and the contradiction was joked about in DS9 and eventually given a plausible in-story reason in Enterprise. But in Discovery they just look different for no good reason. It bugged the hell out of me. But once again I got over it. I didn't let it impact my enjoyment of an otherwise good show, I didn't let it consume me, I didn't pitch a months-long rage fit over it online, and I didn't go on a crusade over it. And for what it's worth, the Discovery production crew have tried to make things look at least a bit closer to their traditional look (Klingons have hair now, they introduced the classic D7 cruiser, and they really nailed the look of the Enterprise).
That's what pisses me off about the most vocal detractors of The Last Jedi (and Disney-era Star Wars in general). They have pitched a months-long rage fit over it, taking every opportunity they can to scream "RUINED FOREVER!" And many of them have gone on a crusade over it, doing things like demanding Johnson and Kennedy be fired, write nasty comments towards them on social media, agitating for a boycott, spending months on end creating dozens of hours of "shit sux" commentary on YouTube, or going on Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic en masse to review bomb it. Not liking a change to an aspect of the story in a long-running franchise is reasonable. But the reaction many have had to new Star Wars films is simply irrational and immature, and reflects the worst aspects of fandom.
Does criticism needs to be intelligent, though, when praise most often isn't?
Food for thought, here.
Yes, it should. Both praise and criticism should have some sort of rational basis, not just a bunch of mindless black-and-white "No, it's perfect!" "No, it's absolute shit!" back-and-forth.
A big rant generalizing people that dislike a certain aspect of a movie into the haters group and in this same rant you also go nuts on the male characters of the past because ofcourse those that disagree with you just do not like females and you think this is how to get back at them?It is also really ironic that you can talk about badly written male characters and think its a solid argument for why a badly written female character is not badly written,if you stop bringing gender into it then you could also know that all PEOPLE can have badly written characters but no you did see a few posters talking about feminism (and mind you that same opinion is also shared by women)and you decide to project a supposedly "toxic" attitude on people that do not like the character you love. (also the male characters of the past you brought up have been laughed at since the movies released, so making the assumption that those bad written characters were overlooked is also plain wrong.)
Ofcourse some people got undeserved hate but that would be a "vocal minority" of the "vocal minority" and really everywhere you can find those kind of people,those you ignore do not hate but just dislike something about the movie and that is shared by a lot.
Most of the youtubers and commenters i have seen like female characters but just do not like how Rey was written in The last jedi,if you do find she was wellwritten then thats good but dont blame others having an opinion onto blind hate.
I didn't generalize anyone. At no point did I claim that everyone who disliked The Last Jedi fit into one of the groups of people engaging in irrational overreaction. I imagine most people that didn't like it didn't let it consume them like some others have.
I can see you feel really strongly about this subject. But I don't really understand why? I mean, yes, we hate on the movie. Yes, some of us think it is one the worst movies in cinema history. But what's it to you? I mean, did you write it? did you work on it? Why are getting so worked up about people not liking someone else's work? Why don't you let Ryan Jonhson defend his creative vision himself?
Project much? I really like how you're trying to flip this back around on me. "Why can't you just let us hate and rage in peace?" Listen, I still like Star Wars, and I'd really like it if literally every thread having anything to do with Star Wars films didn't immediately devolve into a bunch of "Shit sux! Worst movie ever! Star Wars is ruined!" nonsense (and I especially could do without the "Keep the feminists/SJWs away from muh Star Wars!" crap). Is that too much to ask for? Does everything having to do with Star Wars have to be negative now?
Last edited by Shadow1980 - on 17 April 2019