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So as an add on, we see the situation now where armed people out protecting the protestors. This is going right along the lines I am talking about. Everything gets escalated as these type of events occurs and we will see where everyone will be out armed and one idiot, one fool, one trigger happy individual no matter what side they are on will ignite that fire and there will be a blood bath. Because there is no real law on engagement, the fastest and coldest killer comes out on top. If you survive, you get to tell your side of the story and if you are dead well, you hope there is some video because everything goes from zero to 100 in the US, we will be looking at the movie "Escape from New York" like it was a documentary.



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thismeintiel said:
Machiavellian said:

Here is a scenario for you.  Lets say you are out and about like Kyle and you see someone break a window of a store.  You with your trusty gun point it at that person and they turn around and shot you.  Would the person who shot you be able to claim self defense.

The point is that you are not a police officer so your ability to point your gun at anyone unless they are directly attacking you goes out the window.  Once you point your gun, then the terms of engagement changes and its whoever shoots first wins the day.

Nothing make me smile more than when someone just totally do not understand context. I have no clue what the heck you are talking about that I am pushing that games make people violent.  Since it probably escaped you since you are very much so keen to not see the slight humor of walking around with your gun in your hand like Call of Duty which mind you is a game where you walk around with your gun always in your hand.

Also you have no clue on "My Way" because if I was Rittenhouse, I would have shot everyone as well because at that point he is getting attacked.  My point is that his decisions as well as the attackers lead to this situation and if he came up against the wrong people he would have been dead.

Even your reply says you would do the same stupid thing believing you are in the right because as you say, the Police was not doing anything but the police is the authority.  You going out to protect some property that isn't even yours and wind up dead, maimed or paralyzed for life, you would be thinking to yourself if not 6 feet under, why did I not just say home.

Ever hear of a citizen's arrest?  If I see someone committing a crime, it is legal for me to detain them til the authorities get there.  If he fires upon me, he would be charged with assault with a deadly weapon if I survived or murder if I died.  There is no self-defense for people breaking the law in the first place.

Oh, that's not what you are implying?  Yet, you seem to be in Kyle's case.  Even though, he was very responsible with his gun, as I stated. And his only decision was to protect his community, which he had the right to do. Further enforced by the ruling of the jury. 

No, this is not Nazi Germany.  The people are the authority.  We give the government the authority to protect us, our property, and our community.  When they are told not to by a political hack in charge, we can take that authority in our own hands.  That is our right and the law.  That is why people hoped he would lose because it may put that right into jeopardy.  However, it just reinforced it.

Given that individuals are innocent until proven guilty, by what calculus is an ordinary citizen to make a snap decision to determine whether an action is criminal or not? If we wish to exist in a world where ordinary citizens are encouraged to intervene in such situations, should we be protecting them if their conclusion proves to be incorrect?



Machiavellian said:

So as an add on, we see the situation now where armed people out protecting the protestors. This is going right along the lines I am talking about. Everything gets escalated as these type of events occurs and we will see where everyone will be out armed and one idiot, one fool, one trigger happy individual no matter what side they are on will ignite that fire and there will be a blood bath. Because there is no real law on engagement, the fastest and coldest killer comes out on top. If you survive, you get to tell your side of the story and if you are dead well, you hope there is some video because everything goes from zero to 100 in the US, we will be looking at the movie "Escape from New York" like it was a documentary.

You hit the nail right on the head.  I think a lot of people share these concerns (or at least the people I typically interact with).  That's why I am so frustrated by the notion that the Rittenhouse verdict made people feel safer.  We (society) are setting ourselves up for an inevitable fire fight between civilians.  Add in some law enforcement into that recipe, and it might be more of a prelude to a massacre.



IvorEvilen said:
iron_megalith said:

Holy shit. Someone here actually falls for the the White Power hand symbol meme? LMAO.

I wouldn't even be surprised if someone also fell for the "It's OK to be white" movement and were enraged by it. I don't care if you're left or you're right. Falling for these memes and taking it unironically just tells how much you're out of touch. Whether you advocate to ban the symbol because you believe white supremacists do actually use it in a serious manner. Or whether you are a white supremacist that bought the meme and used it yourself within your group. Just believing it is a thing and taking it seriously just proves their point that people are fucking gullible. Congratulations for demonstrating boomer levels of ignorance right there.

This thread really is Twitter lite simulation. You guys crack me up.

Even looking at the ok symbol through the kindest lens (as simply a meme), it was a meme that was made to make people of color and their allies upset and uncomfortable in a space.  Would that not make anyone that participated in the trolling, either online or in public, participants of hate?  You are intentionally trying to make people feel uncomfortable and unwelcome for the lols.  Sounds like a really shitty thing to do.

I was fully aware of the 4chan origins, and I still use the ok gesture, but context is critical.  White supremacists started using the ok gesture in their own circles, because they would just claim they were "trolling" too.  Ever hear of Poe's law?

Besides, it's 4chan.  The cesspool of the internet.  Nothing is "just a meme" there.

thismeintiel said:

Tell me you're easily duped without telling me you're easily duped. 

I love what fools the Left and media has made themselves out to be.  A massive troll job by 4chan, who bet they could get the Left to believe that anything was racist, including the internationally known OK hand sign, and won that bet just because it was something Trump does when he talks.  Talk about TDS.  The best part?  Instead of acknowledging they got had, they kept going along with it.  Now, EVERYONE is a White Supremacist.  Oh God, it's so fucking good. 

I guess Biden is a massive White Supremacist, too.

Dude, context is critical.  Are you trying to tell me this level of trolling has no racial undertones whatsoever?!  I still use the okay symbol too, but I have enough brain cells to tell when someone is intentionally being an asshole.

My friends and I were really pissed off at the ADL for classifying the okay symbol as a hate symbol back in 2019, and we continued to use it defiantly, because we were not going to let it be co-opted.  So, no, we were not going to let the racists take something from us.  If you really think mocking and mentally distressing people over their desire to not offend other people is HILARIOUS, then there is something seriously wrong with you.

I didn't mention anything in my post about it being right or wrong. If anything, I'm just pointing out how dumb it is to fall for it. Just like you mentioned, the government took it seriously and added it as a symbol of hate which is ridiculous. They added a fucking OK symbol that is widely used by everyone as a hate symbol just so ADL can probably claim they're actually doing something and not being a complete waste of money. And I guess also to make some boogeyman real. Let that sink into your head how dumb that is.

You can assume that they were being racist on that pic but you have nothing to support it. Just so you know, he willingly surrendered his phone and they have not found anything to suggest any evidences that can tie the incident to any racial motives. Even his Facebook account was searched and was found to be clear. Just take the L dude. You fell for a fucking 4chan meme.

Last edited by iron_megalith - 5 days ago

iron_megalith said:

I didn't mention anything in my post about it being right or wrong. If anything, I'm just pointing out how dumb it is to fall for it. Just like you mentioned, the government took it seriously and added it as a symbol of hate which is ridiculous. They added a fucking OK symbol that is widely used by everyone as a hate symbol. Let that fucking sink in.

You can assume that they are being racist on that pic but you have nothing to support it. Just so you know, he willingly surrendered his phone and they have not found anything to suggest any evidences that can tie the incident to any racial motives. Even his Facebook account searched and was found to be clear. Just take the L dude. You fell for a fucking 4chan meme.

And communists use the hammer and sickle which are just implements that farmers use/used.

That doesn't stop conservatives from recognizing that the hammer and sickle is communist symbolism.

Your "meme" is how all of language and symbolism work. People use words and symbols in a particular way (as a joke or not, it doesn't matter), and people start recognizing how people are using those words and symbols.

ADL has nothing to do with the government, by the way...  



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the-pi-guy said:
iron_megalith said:

I didn't mention anything in my post about it being right or wrong. If anything, I'm just pointing out how dumb it is to fall for it. Just like you mentioned, the government took it seriously and added it as a symbol of hate which is ridiculous. They added a fucking OK symbol that is widely used by everyone as a hate symbol. Let that fucking sink in.

You can assume that they are being racist on that pic but you have nothing to support it. Just so you know, he willingly surrendered his phone and they have not found anything to suggest any evidences that can tie the incident to any racial motives. Even his Facebook account searched and was found to be clear. Just take the L dude. You fell for a fucking 4chan meme.

And communists use the hammer and sickle which are just implements that farmers use/used.

That doesn't stop conservatives from recognizing that the hammer and sickle is communist symbolism.

Your "meme" is how all of language and symbolism work. People use words and symbols in a particular way (as a joke or not, it doesn't matter), and people start recognizing how people are using those words and symbols.

ADL has nothing to do with the government, by the way...  

This may come as a surprise to you. It's not only conservatives that associate that symbol for communism. But you are correct in that symbols can mean anything. But using it to stigmatize a particular group of people for using it is dumb when you don't even know what the hell they're using it for.

Just like someone wanting to use the Charlie Chaplin mustache that can be associated with Hitler. If someone wants to use it, so be it. Don't go jumping to conclusions that they are racist for doing so. You're gonna sound like some evangelical from the Bible Belt.

Last edited by iron_megalith - 5 days ago

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/583024-jury-finds-defendants-guilty-on-most-counts-in-arbery-case

>All 3 men in Arbery killing found guilty of murder



Justice served for Arbery!



iron_megalith said:
IvorEvilen said:

Even looking at the ok symbol through the kindest lens (as simply a meme), it was a meme that was made to make people of color and their allies upset and uncomfortable in a space.  Would that not make anyone that participated in the trolling, either online or in public, participants of hate?  You are intentionally trying to make people feel uncomfortable and unwelcome for the lols.  Sounds like a really shitty thing to do.

I was fully aware of the 4chan origins, and I still use the ok gesture, but context is critical.  White supremacists started using the ok gesture in their own circles, because they would just claim they were "trolling" too.  Ever hear of Poe's law?

Besides, it's 4chan.  The cesspool of the internet.  Nothing is "just a meme" there.

thismeintiel said:

Tell me you're easily duped without telling me you're easily duped. 

I love what fools the Left and media has made themselves out to be.  A massive troll job by 4chan, who bet they could get the Left to believe that anything was racist, including the internationally known OK hand sign, and won that bet just because it was something Trump does when he talks.  Talk about TDS.  The best part?  Instead of acknowledging they got had, they kept going along with it.  Now, EVERYONE is a White Supremacist.  Oh God, it's so fucking good. 

I guess Biden is a massive White Supremacist, too.

Dude, context is critical.  Are you trying to tell me this level of trolling has no racial undertones whatsoever?!  I still use the okay symbol too, but I have enough brain cells to tell when someone is intentionally being an asshole.

My friends and I were really pissed off at the ADL for classifying the okay symbol as a hate symbol back in 2019, and we continued to use it defiantly, because we were not going to let it be co-opted.  So, no, we were not going to let the racists take something from us.  If you really think mocking and mentally distressing people over their desire to not offend other people is HILARIOUS, then there is something seriously wrong with you.

I didn't mention anything in my post about it being right or wrong. If anything, I'm just pointing out how dumb it is to fall for it. Just like you mentioned, the government took it seriously and added it as a symbol of hate which is ridiculous. They added a fucking OK symbol that is widely used by everyone as a hate symbol just so ADL can probably claim they're actually doing something and not being a complete waste of money. And I guess also to make some boogeyman real. Let that sink into your head how dumb that is.

You can assume that they were being racist on that pic but you have nothing to support it. Just so you know, he willingly surrendered his phone and they have not found anything to suggest any evidences that can tie the incident to any racial motives. Even his Facebook account was searched and was found to be clear. Just take the L dude. You fell for a fucking 4chan meme.

Apologies, I missed that "You" when I re-wrote the hypothetical to be in the third person instead of the second person.  It should read "They".

I think we fundamentally disagree with the notion that "it was only a meme".  Plausible deniability is the shield of a racist.  It is how they recruit.  As someone else pointed out, the ADL has no association with the government.  They also have their own history of controversies, but I am not going to fault them for raising awareness about potential or perceived messages of hate.  Although, as I stated previously, I was critical of the response to blanketly associate the okay symbol as hate speech.

We do know that Rittenhouse did meet with "Proud Boys".  Although some people were saying they were not Proud Boys, but rather white nationalists.  To be fair, Proud Boys are pretty much synonymous with white nationalism and supremacy, even if their official stance is against that.  It's the whole plausible deniability thing again.  Proud Boys as an organization is not officially racist, even if most of its members are.  Kyle is now coming out saying (after the trial?) that this was all a setup by his old attorney, who was fired over the incident.  So I can guess you just have to choose who you believe.

I have never seen anything related to him surrendering his phone (let alone willingly).  If police had search warrants, it is not like he would have had much choice in that decision.  It is important to note that evidence that may have indicated Kyle Rittenhouse as racially motivated (which was not really relevant) or desiring to shoot people (which seemed more relevant) were not allowed to be presented in the trial.  For example, footage of him saying the following in regard to a theft: "Bro, I wish I had my fucking AR. I'd start shooting rounds at them."  So there may have very well been questionable content they found on his phone/facebook that we will never know about, because it would not have been legally admissible evidence.  But that last detail is PURELY speculation on my part, and I will not let it color my opinion on the situation.

... we have gotten far off topic.  I do not even think Kyle is overtly racist, so I apologize if that was the conclusion you drew from my previous posts.  I simply was stating WHY this was a racially charged trial.  The photo with the Proud Boys/White Nationalists, where he made the okay sign, only served to elevate the racial undertones of the trial.

Edit:  Sorry, I should have re-read the second to last paragraph.  Cleaned it up a bit.



NobleTeam360 said:

Justice served for Arbery!

Nearly but not quite I still want to see those who tried to shield the McMichaels from justice being convicted for obstruction at the very least.