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Machiavellian said:

 

You do not need the news clip, as the police body cam video shows everything up to the moment of the shot and after the event.  I do not doubt the situation is tense and the perceived threat that the person has a gun is always prevalent within the US culture.  I watched the video probably a dozen times looking at the moment of the cop asking to see the kids hands to the moment of the shot.  There really was no delay. 

He asked to see the kids hands which the kid begins to raise them and then its done.  People stated he moved to fast, why did he turn around and a whole lot of stuff but the thing is the situation was stressful for both.  Logic doesn't always kick in those situations and especially for a kid 13 years old.  What I believe is that there were really not to many things the kid could have done where the cop doesn't shoot him since he shot so fast.  We know he did not see a gun first, we know that the kid never got his hands up.

The thing is, there are videos where people have been shot by cops where they give commands and they still shoot you.  This is why the distrust.  The words of a police within the US is trash because of the ones let free who abuse that power.  There is a video where a man got shot in a driveway because he raised his cell phone or another where he was said to have a gun but it was a cell phone.  Its these situations like this where the police have time and again shot unarmed people on fear and this one will be another.  Whether there was a gun or not, the end results is that it was not in the person hands when they were shot.  The cop did not say put your hands up nice and slow.

So the real problem is comes down to training.  There really isn't besides shoot to kill in the US.  6 months and you can be a cop while other nations it takes years.  Giving clear and direct directions where you are in control probably could prevent some of these types of deaths.

The real problem I see is people being ok that the result is always death and justifying it because their is the perceived threat.  I guess as long as it happens to those gansta then all is ok, until its not.

I mean, the news clip I posted shows the bodycam and a stillshot of a gun in kids hand. I can also post you a 11min clip with initial 911 calls and security cam footage if you wish. You can slow the bodycam part down yourself and see the gun. And understand the bodycam isn't actually recording through officers eyes. He even tells the kid to drop it.. I'd say had he not ran and the pick up the gun trying to hide it and raise his hand he most likely would still be breathing. But unfortunately as you said, logic doesn't always kick in.

I don't think people are ok the result is always death. I don't think even US cops are ok with that. Just look how many responses there are each year. How many arrests. How many armed or violent people arrested without result of death. 

About training.. it's a job you mostly learn by doing it. Training is important of course and you should regularly do it throughout your career but it only gets you so far. You can train for 10 years and still something unpredictable can happen in the first high-stress situation. Some people aren't cut out for the job and it might get unnoticed until it's too late. There's plenty of footage US cops doing outstanding job so I guess lack of training isn't a problem everywhere.

For example in Finland training is 2,5 years. But around half of it is training on duty with a senior officer. It's 10 months in academy and you're working as a younger officer. So you are basically a cop. And that 10 months includes basics of pre-trial investigation, Basic forensics stuff and so on, not just use of force situations. And there's actually very little taught about de-escalation and interactions with people, suspects and stuff. It's something you learn with experience anyway. 



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[Post deleted]

Last edited by KManX89 - on 19 April 2021

KManX89 said:

Not sure this is the right thread for this, but:

New police bodycam evidence PROVES Amber Heard lied about apartment incident.

Wow, what a sad world we live in when Scamber Turd's friends, who have an obvious motivation to lie, are deemed more credible by the fucking judge on the case (!) than fucking police officers who were called to the scene (!!) and we actually needed bodycam footage to see through Scamber Turd's bullsh!t AGAIN. But how can THAT be? It can't be because of his ties to Scamber's lawyers or his son's ties to the publication that Depp happened to be suing, can it? Yeah, HIS ruling is gospel (no seriously, it is according to some people). Nevermind that Scamber Turd has been caught lying numerous times.

And BTW, if I sound pissed as hell, it's because I fucking am. If JD had pulled this shit, the only thing he'd ever be allowed to film again was from the inside of a prison cell. Calling Scamber Turd scum of the earth would be an insult to scumbags.

Scamber Turd needs to be canned with this (like we needed any more proof), but even now, I doubt she will be. I just might have to give WB the EA/Acti/Konami treatment by boycotting Aqua Man 2 (in theaters).

Probably not. The case you're referring to is based in the UK. The link to the US is pretty tangential, and it doesn't implicate any major US policies. There are some US elements to the story such as the actions of US companies, but that really doesn't fit the definition of politics, so probably better to start a new thread if you want to discuss it. More people will probably read it that way anyway.

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 19 April 2021

Trump wants Covid vaccine to be called the Trumpcine.

Sure, Donnie Boy, if we can name the Covid virus the Trump virus.

Oh, and speaking of cognitive dissonance:



KiigelHeart said:
Machiavellian said:

You do not need the news clip, as the police body cam video shows everything up to the moment of the shot and after the event.  I do not doubt the situation is tense and the perceived threat that the person has a gun is always prevalent within the US culture.  I watched the video probably a dozen times looking at the moment of the cop asking to see the kids hands to the moment of the shot.  There really was no delay. 

He asked to see the kids hands which the kid begins to raise them and then its done.  People stated he moved to fast, why did he turn around and a whole lot of stuff but the thing is the situation was stressful for both.  Logic doesn't always kick in those situations and especially for a kid 13 years old.  What I believe is that there were really not to many things the kid could have done where the cop doesn't shoot him since he shot so fast.  We know he did not see a gun first, we know that the kid never got his hands up.

The thing is, there are videos where people have been shot by cops where they give commands and they still shoot you.  This is why the distrust.  The words of a police within the US is trash because of the ones let free who abuse that power.  There is a video where a man got shot in a driveway because he raised his cell phone or another where he was said to have a gun but it was a cell phone.  Its these situations like this where the police have time and again shot unarmed people on fear and this one will be another.  Whether there was a gun or not, the end results is that it was not in the person hands when they were shot.  The cop did not say put your hands up nice and slow.

So the real problem is comes down to training.  There really isn't besides shoot to kill in the US.  6 months and you can be a cop while other nations it takes years.  Giving clear and direct directions where you are in control probably could prevent some of these types of deaths.

The real problem I see is people being ok that the result is always death and justifying it because their is the perceived threat.  I guess as long as it happens to those gansta then all is ok, until its not.

I mean, the news clip I posted shows the bodycam and a stillshot of a gun in kids hand. I can also post you a 11min clip with initial 911 calls and security cam footage if you wish. You can slow the bodycam part down yourself and see the gun. And understand the bodycam isn't actually recording through officers eyes. He even tells the kid to drop it.. I'd say had he not ran and the pick up the gun trying to hide it and raise his hand he most likely would still be breathing. But unfortunately as you said, logic doesn't always kick in.

I don't think people are ok the result is always death. I don't think even US cops are ok with that. Just look how many responses there are each year. How many arrests. How many armed or violent people arrested without result of death. 

About training.. it's a job you mostly learn by doing it. Training is important of course and you should regularly do it throughout your career but it only gets you so far. You can train for 10 years and still something unpredictable can happen in the first high-stress situation. Some people aren't cut out for the job and it might get unnoticed until it's too late. There's plenty of footage US cops doing outstanding job so I guess lack of training isn't a problem everywhere.

For example in Finland training is 2,5 years. But around half of it is training on duty with a senior officer. It's 10 months in academy and you're working as a younger officer. So you are basically a cop. And that 10 months includes basics of pre-trial investigation, Basic forensics stuff and so on, not just use of force situations. And there's actually very little taught about de-escalation and interactions with people, suspects and stuff. It's something you learn with experience anyway. 

Interesting, when I saw that news clip it jumps after the freeze frame of the gun to the kid putting his hands up and then the shot.  Actually you have to read the comments on videos like this to see that there are a lot of people who are actually very much ok with the outcome.  

Do cops do good, yes, that is not the question.  The question is when cops do bad, are they held responsible.  In the past it was always your word against the cop and basically you were done.  If you were a minority, especially in most southern states, well good luck.  The advent of bodycam and camera phones is what put these situations on notice.  The thing is when someone gets killed by the police its just a mistake and while this one is tragic its still was a mistake.  There are plenty of video of much worse cases as I described and those are the ones that do have video evidence.

As I stated, the job is stressful and because of that, not everyone is cut out to be a cop.  I am more than happy to pay more in my taxes for better salaries, training and equipment that helps police do their job and also not have that shoot first then let GOD sort it out mentality.



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Derek Chauvin found guilty on all charges in George Floyd's murder. Sentencing to follow.

There's a relief. Now to wait and see how all the other awful killings in the news lately pan out.



TallSilhouette said:

Derek Chauvin found guilty on all charges in George Floyd's murder. Sentencing to follow.

There's a relief. Now to wait and see how all the other awful killings in the news lately pan out.

*shrugs* I guess we're supposed to be impressed by that, like look how far we've come, but seriously it really was the least our criminal justice system could do. And to think it only took last summer to make it happen. Congratulations us.

I mean seriously, what else could they do? Recalling last summer for just one second, can you even imagine what the consequences would've been if they had found him innocent? They had no choice! That's why even most of the cops went to bat against Chauvin. What else could they do if they wanted a metropolis left standing in this country? So of course they found him guilty! But what about all the other cases? Any reforms coming down the pipeline or was this it?

Whelp, at least it happened.


Jaicee said:
TallSilhouette said:

Derek Chauvin found guilty on all charges in George Floyd's murder. Sentencing to follow.

There's a relief. Now to wait and see how all the other awful killings in the news lately pan out.

*shrugs* I guess we're supposed to be impressed by that, like look how far we've come, but seriously it really was the least our criminal justice system could do. And to think it only took last summer to make it happen. Congratulations us.

I mean seriously, what else could they do? Recalling last summer for just one second, can you even imagine what the consequences would've been if they had found him innocent? They had no choice! That's why even most of the cops went to bat against Chauvin. What else could they do if they wanted a metropolis left standing in this country? So of course they found him guilty! But what about all the other cases? Any reforms coming down the pipeline or was this it?

Whelp, at least it happened.

If you want reform you have to fight for it.  Nothing is given if you want change.  This will definitely be it if people go back home and believe that the skirmish was the battle.  Real change takes dedication and a prolonged fight, not the quick hitters set to appease the mob and send them home.  Yes, Chauvin was the sacrifice but you really cannot moan about the result if nothing comes next if you do not have a plan.

If you want to know what will happen next, well that depend on US.  You can definitely believe the Police isn't looking for reform so the people have to demand it.  Nothing short of that will move the needle and the expectations should be this will not be an easy fight but one that will take dedication and perseverance.  



Owned.

How much you want to bet Ben would be saying justice was served if they let a murderer cop go free yet again? Which thankfully didn't happen this time.

Last edited by KManX89 - on 22 April 2021

Russia announced that it will pull back its troops from the Ukraine border by May 1st.

What is Putin trying to prove? What does he want? Another piece of Ukraine? All of Ukraine? He must not be appeased.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1gWECYYOSo

Please Watch/Share this video so it gets shown in Hollywood.