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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Pokemon Sword and Shield coming late 2019 worldwide

Gen 2 is definitely beloved. The first time the roster was expanded beyond the original 151, plus the whole postgame of revisiting Kanto and fighting your old payer character were huge deals back in the day.



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Nautilus said:
MasonADC said:

Pokémon is so beloved, 23 years after it’s debut as well 

Correction:Gen 1 and maybe gen 2 are really beloved.The rest is just grouped together.Just go out and see what are the usual pokemons that are used for marketing:Pikachu, Charizard, Eevee, Squirtle.And so on.Not only that, but only the mainline pokemon games sell well(and their remakes, which are based on mainline games).Most mario games, spin off or not, sell well.You get where I am going with this.

But Ill admit that pokemon is an oddity in the sense on how well it has survived without basically doing anything new.Its probably nostalgia mixed with the pleasure of capturing creatures, which Pokemon basically pioneered.And thats what makes me so sad that its stuck in the past.

Gen 3-Gen 7 have all sold 15-17 million, that doesnt happen unless it's a beloved series.

Also most Pokemon spinoffs sell well so I dont know what you're talking about there. Take a look at the game database.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

flashfire926 said:

Thankfully the artstyle has drastically improved from Let's Go, ditching that fake plasticy look.

That is the one thing about the reveal yesterday that made me happy, seeing them drop the plastic toy look for a cell-shaded look based on the anime. 



Nautilus said:
MasonADC said:

Pokémon is so beloved, 23 years after it’s debut as well 

Correction:Gen 1 and maybe gen 2 are really beloved.The rest is just grouped together.Just go out and see what are the usual pokemons that are used for marketing:Pikachu, Charizard, Eevee, Squirtle.And so on.Not only that, but only the mainline pokemon games sell well(and their remakes, which are based on mainline games).Most mario games, spin off or not, sell well.You get where I am going with this.

But Ill admit that pokemon is an oddity in the sense on how well it has survived without basically doing anything new.Its probably nostalgia mixed with the pleasure of capturing creatures, which Pokemon basically pioneered.And thats what makes me so sad that its stuck in the past.

According to whom? Just because you may not be into the games anymore doesn't mean it reflects the reality of the situation it's survived and outsells those games you mentioned because it's beloved as well, games like Mystery Dungeon have sold in the range of 4m which was the average for Zelda games for the longest time and a parallel branch in Lets Go literally just sold 10m in 2 months.

Sorry I get the game doesn't match what some people hoped for but this was nonsensical.



Nautilus said:
MasonADC said:

Pokémon is so beloved, 23 years after it’s debut as well 

Correction:Gen 1 and maybe gen 2 are really beloved.The rest is just grouped together.Just go out and see what are the usual pokemons that are used for marketing:Pikachu, Charizard, Eevee, Squirtle.And so on.Not only that, but only the mainline pokemon games sell well(and their remakes, which are based on mainline games).Most mario games, spin off or not, sell well.You get where I am going with this.

But Ill admit that pokemon is an oddity in the sense on how well it has survived without basically doing anything new.Its probably nostalgia mixed with the pleasure of capturing creatures, which Pokemon basically pioneered.And thats what makes me so sad that its stuck in the past.

Is Zelda not the same? Before BoTW, OOT was the beloved game, and the others were bunched together. The Pokémon spinoffs sell pretty well, do they not? 



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mZuzek said:
spemanig said:

Yeah... ORAS doesn't make me confident for a Sinnoh remake, but I've given up on expecting anything special from GF. In many ways, I hope Sinnoh skips this gen with Let's Go serving as the remakes. On the other hand, ORAS tells me that perhaps a Platinum remake should be left in my imagination.

I get that you don't like the Sinnoh games, but they feel like the last games with a geographically complex region traversal wise. It would really bum me out if we didn't get at least one of those regions done to scale. The Unova games are, to me, the last competent Pokemon games, but they started the rapid streamlining of exploration we have now. S/S look like the same thing, so I feel like after the Sinnoh remakes, we'll literally never get a Pokemon game designed the way I like them again. Short of a BotW-style reboot. Which I don't ever see happening, frankly.

Yeah, I'm no fan of the Sinnoh games, but if anything they would benefit the most from a (well-done) remake, since the biggest issue with them was gen 4's sluggish gameplay. I'd be quite okay with gen 4 remakes.

flashfire926 said:

Never got the hate for OR/AS. Are people still salty about the battle frontier? It was a Ruby/Sapphire remake, not an Emerald remake.

edit: OR/AS is head and shoulders above all the other 3DS Pokemon games.

I personally hate it for two reasons:

1. they fucked the soundtrack really bad. Like, not HG/SS level where it was only a few songs they fucked up, no. The whole soundtrack was fucked up. Memorable songs like Team Aqua/Magma Battle, Route 113, Route 120 and many more were completely and utterly destroyed by new arrangements that sounded completely sterile and devoid of any real emotion or impact. The music felt utterly bland and generic, all of it, and that's a stark contrast coming from gen 3's original soundtrack which was anything but that - it was iconic and memorable, even if not always great. Annoying or not, trumpets were a defining feature of Hoenn and getting rid of them got rid of most of that game's essence. That said, there are a handful of good remixes in OR/AS, such as Archie/Maxie's theme and Route 111. But the vast majority of it was ruined.

2. the story. I mean, they didn't need to do much - most people would agree R/S/E's story wasn't exactly the greatest thing ever, but at least it was never a nuisance. It was just kinda there. OR/AS, though? They really went all out in shoehorning story beats into literally every single thing you do, and when all of it was terribly written and full of cringy moments, it just ruined the whole game.

See, this was the approach in the original games:
Wanna enjoy Pokémon Contests? Cool, enter the building and go have fun. If you don't want to, just don't.
Wanna catch elusive legendaries? Cool, when you get everything you need, just go after them, if you want.
Did you just so happen to save the world? Yeah, I guess you did just so happen to save the world. Crazy how things go, right?

Meanwhile, this was the approach in OR/AS:
Wanna enjoy Pokémon Contests? Of course you do, you clearly have a natural talent for them! Here, let's force you into it!
Wanna catch elusive legendaries? Of course you do, after all Latias/Latios needs a friend and you're exactly who they're looking for! Here, try coming to their place and being forced into catching him/her! And if you want Rayquaza too, well it's no problem, you were also its chosen one despite the fact that you're some 10-year-old foreigner kid who has nothing to do with the traditional culture it's associated with!
Did you just so happen to save the world? Of course not. You were the chosen one to do it, no one else could've! You are the best trainer ever, how about we also force you into a super cringy relationship with May/Brendan just to show how amazing you are?

 

I hope you understand now.

...

The music was awesome. They HAD to get rid of the trumpets, they got so annoying. Gen 3 had some of the worst soundtrack in the series (second worst only behind X/Y).

The story is way more fleshed out in ORAS, the evil teams, Brendan/May, and the evil teams got their due. It makes R/S feel like it has an incomplete story by comparison. At least it actually had an adequate story, unlike pokemon X/Y. The game is made for 10 year olds! Most of the games are about saving the world as the chosen one. How is ORAS different in any regard?

Are you talking about Mirage spots? How is that a con? Don't go catching them if you dont want to, you're not forced to do it.

ORAS has more fleshed out secret bases, the dexnav, rematching trainers, sneaking mechanic, and more which none of the 3DS games ever had.

Giving you a free Latias was stupid. Though thank god it didnt give us a free gen 1 starter an hour into the game and lucario as part of excessive fanservice.



Bet with Intrinsic:

The Switch will outsell 3DS (based on VGchartz numbers), according to me, while Intrinsic thinks the opposite will hold true. One month avatar control for the loser's avatar.

flashfire926 said:

The music was awesome. They HAD to get rid of the trumpets, they got so annoying. Gen 3 had some of the worst soundtrack in the series (second worst only behind X/Y).

The story is way more fleshed out in ORAS, the evil teams, Brendan/May, and the evil teams got their due. It makes R/S feel like it has an incomplete story by comparison. At least it actually had an adequate story, unlike pokemon X/Y. The game is made for 10 year olds! Most of the games are about saving the world as the chosen one. How is ORAS different in any regard?

Are you talking about Mirage spots? How is that a con? Don't go catching them if you dont want to, you're not forced to do it.

ORAS has more fleshed out secret bases, the dexnav, rematching trainers, sneaking mechanic, and more which none of the 3DS games ever had.

Giving you a free Latias was stupid. Though thank god it didnt give us a free gen 1 starter an hour into the game and lucario as part of excessive fanservice.

Let's just start this post by clarifying that your musical taste is truly atrocious.

"The story is way more fleshed out in ORAS" yes it is, and that's why it's bad, because it's written like fucking shit. If I'm cringing in every cutscene, and cutscenes are going on all the time, then something is wrong. Yes most Pokémon stories have you saving the world, but there's rarely a "chosen one" element to it - and when there is, it's like, once. In Black/White you were N's chosen one to face him at the end of the game. In X/Y you were Lysandre's chosen one to stop him. Even in these occasions where you were someone's "chosen one", you were someone's chosen one, and that's already a lot better than being the "chosen one" just because. In OR/AS, you are the chosen one for:

1. Pokémon Contests
2. Latias/Latios
3. Groudon/Kyogre
4. The Pokémon League
5. May/Brendan
6. Rayquaza/Zinnia and her people

Literally all of these things are forced onto the player, with no choice. What it creates, is a game that's constantly telling you who you are, rather than allowing you to just be yourself. I think that's most epitomised by the game's baffling decision to remove character customization. OR/AS is all about forcing you to do things you don't want to do, and then telling you quite explicitly that you do want to do them. It's just fucking annoying. When I was first playing it (well, I only played it once), that whole Latias/Latios segment halfway through the game was pretty much the biggest turn-off I've had in Pokémon - I don't like having legendary Pokémon on my team, and I don't like being forced into catching them. It's understandable when they're the main cover legendary and you know the story will revolve around them, but forcing me to stop my adventure literally halfway through it because some random legendary I don't give a shit about wants to be caught by me was a fucking insult to me as a player.



zorg1000 said:
Nautilus said:

Correction:Gen 1 and maybe gen 2 are really beloved.The rest is just grouped together.Just go out and see what are the usual pokemons that are used for marketing:Pikachu, Charizard, Eevee, Squirtle.And so on.Not only that, but only the mainline pokemon games sell well(and their remakes, which are based on mainline games).Most mario games, spin off or not, sell well.You get where I am going with this.

But Ill admit that pokemon is an oddity in the sense on how well it has survived without basically doing anything new.Its probably nostalgia mixed with the pleasure of capturing creatures, which Pokemon basically pioneered.And thats what makes me so sad that its stuck in the past.

Gen 3-Gen 7 have all sold 15-17 million, that doesnt happen unless it's a beloved series.

Also most Pokemon spinoffs sell well so I dont know what you're talking about there. Take a look at the game database.

As well as Mario Kart?As Mario Tennis Aces(going for 3 million and beyond)?Mario RPGs?So much so that they are all franchises of their own.

There is sell well, and there is sell WELL.But you guys understood what I said.Is it that hard to understand that there is people, and in great quantity, that are not satisfied by Sword and Shield?



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

Wyrdness said:
Nautilus said:

Correction:Gen 1 and maybe gen 2 are really beloved.The rest is just grouped together.Just go out and see what are the usual pokemons that are used for marketing:Pikachu, Charizard, Eevee, Squirtle.And so on.Not only that, but only the mainline pokemon games sell well(and their remakes, which are based on mainline games).Most mario games, spin off or not, sell well.You get where I am going with this.

But Ill admit that pokemon is an oddity in the sense on how well it has survived without basically doing anything new.Its probably nostalgia mixed with the pleasure of capturing creatures, which Pokemon basically pioneered.And thats what makes me so sad that its stuck in the past.

According to whom? Just because you may not be into the games anymore doesn't mean it reflects the reality of the situation it's survived and outsells those games you mentioned because it's beloved as well, games like Mystery Dungeon have sold in the range of 4m which was the average for Zelda games for the longest time and a parallel branch in Lets Go literally just sold 10m in 2 months.

Sorry I get the game doesn't match what some people hoped for but this was nonsensical.

Average for Zelda games?4 million?Outsell the game I mention?You mean Mario Kart or Mario Party, which both are Mario spin off games? *facepalm* And Im being accused of being nonsensical...

Not to mention that only one mystery dungeon passed the 4 million mark, and the most recent titles landed around 1.5 million.Which is great, no doubt, but lets not exagerate, shall we?

Look, first of all, I never said the other gens are not liked.They sold well for a reason.But to say that the early gens are the ones that people are most fond of, and by a landslide, is simply a fact.Like I said, just go out and see any marketing for any pokemon merch, especially the ones that target the market as a whole.

And I really dont get it.I really dont get how people cant understand how many users are dissapointed by this.I truly dont.People have been saying time and time again that they wanted to see a BOTW-like game for the first Pokemon game on the Switch, and thats not what we got.This is not a talk about sales potential, and its not a talk about "Its your problem that you expected Gamefreak to actually try.Pokemon games are always like that".Well, fuck the expected.I want more.Its that hard to understand?

I had several conversation with Uran about Pokemon, and those conversations are what should have happened in this thread.Every time I speak with him about Pokemon, he says how much he loves how tradicional Pokemon is, how "safe" it is, and while he loves innovation, he also loves that Pokemon also stay relatively the same gen over gen(outside of the expected bumps and new features here and there).I on the other hand, am frustated how the franchise is stale and that I fell out of pokemon ever since the first two gens, because it is the same thing over and over again with each new installment.But even with those two opossing views, we both understand where we are comming from and understand each sentiment over the franchise.

But here is the opposite.If I show any sign of being displeased about the game, I am lumped in the "hate" department, and that I should have expected that it wouldnt be a big adventure, because thats what pokemon is.And what is most infuriating about this is, and Im pretty sure of this, that you all hate a franchise or other for not innovating enough.

Can you guys just stop jumping to conclusions and start acempting that I might be wanting something a bit more than you?



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

MasonADC said:
Nautilus said:

Correction:Gen 1 and maybe gen 2 are really beloved.The rest is just grouped together.Just go out and see what are the usual pokemons that are used for marketing:Pikachu, Charizard, Eevee, Squirtle.And so on.Not only that, but only the mainline pokemon games sell well(and their remakes, which are based on mainline games).Most mario games, spin off or not, sell well.You get where I am going with this.

But Ill admit that pokemon is an oddity in the sense on how well it has survived without basically doing anything new.Its probably nostalgia mixed with the pleasure of capturing creatures, which Pokemon basically pioneered.And thats what makes me so sad that its stuck in the past.

Is Zelda not the same? Before BoTW, OOT was the beloved game, and the others were bunched together. The Pokémon spinoffs sell pretty well, do they not? 

Not recently they dont.I mean, not extremely well at least.

The difference is that not only Zelda has gone through 3 different evolutions(Zelda 1, OOT, BOTW), but even then, each game had a very different feel to it, like Majoras Mask for example.

Is it too much to ask for Pokemon to try something different?I... dont understand how this discussion has reached where we are now.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1