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Forums - PC Discussion - Nvidia Gets SALTY

caffeinade said:

Well at the same time, you don't release a slide when you don't know if you're going to end up doing something, yeah.
It's very possible that 7nm was progressing faster than expected, and AMD decided to test it out with Vega.

"if my thinking is spot on"
That's one big if you've got there.

 The transistors are produced by TSMC or GlobalFoundries, not AMD/Nvidia. So i give it " higly unlikely" label.  More over, the latest AMD 14nm FinFet was co-produced by GF with Samsung to lower the costs., because more plants needed.

Not so fast, bro.

Sure, there is a big if here, but there is also the ground to defend my prediction.



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KingofTrolls said:
Pemalite said:

It doesn't matter if Microsoft doesn't use Navi technology, Navi isn't likely to be anything special anyway. - AMD does have next-gen being designed remember.
With that said... A leak posted by Forbes can and shall be taken with grains of salt.

Maybe yes, maybe no, IMO this is like this Eurogamer's leak about PS4 Pro, where it was stated in every line its non official, and all media took it as a given PR news from Sony. Sure, it is not all set in stone, but I prefer to operate on any data than some < next gen being >

I prefer to try and base all assertions on actual known factoids.

KingofTrolls said:

All the info we got points to the Navi in PS5, and this alone will make it very special. Like everybody know Polaris, and no one give a fuck about Bulldozer. Listen they will not simply put high end AAA GPU in next gens, there will be semi-custom made laptopt-style APUS like we got already.

Navi is based on Graphics Core Next. That alone makes it very uninteresting.

I agree, they will not put a high-end GPU in the next gen consoles, but are you assuming that AMD's next-gen GPU architecture isn't going to have a mid-range offering?

KingofTrolls said:

 The transistors are produced by TSMC or GlobalFoundries, not AMD/Nvidia. So i give it " higly unlikely" label.  More over, the latest AMD 14nm FinFet was co-produced by GF with Samsung to lower the costs., because more plants needed.

AMD works with the fabs to choose the best transistors for their designs, not all transistors are created equal, some operate with lower power but sacrifice operational frequency.
AMD will often port an older GPU design to a new node in order to "test the fab waters" so to speak and learn about it's various characteristics, so that their next chips can take better advantage of it.

KingofTrolls said:

Not so fast, bro.

Sure, there is a big if here, but there is also the ground to defend my prediction.

Many said the same thing about Ryzen in the Xbox One X... But I digress.

I suggest you wait for an actual announcement before trying to assert something as factual.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
KingofTrolls said:

Maybe yes, maybe no, IMO this is like this Eurogamer's leak about PS4 Pro, where it was stated in every line its non official, and all media took it as a given PR news from Sony. Sure, it is not all set in stone, but I prefer to operate on any data than some < next gen being >

I prefer to try and base all assertions on actual known factoids.

KingofTrolls said:

All the info we got points to the Navi in PS5, and this alone will make it very special. Like everybody know Polaris, and no one give a fuck about Bulldozer. Listen they will not simply put high end AAA GPU in next gens, there will be semi-custom made laptopt-style APUS like we got already.

Navi is based on Graphics Core Next. That alone makes it very uninteresting.

I agree, they will not put a high-end GPU in the next gen consoles, but are you assuming that AMD's next-gen GPU architecture isn't going to have a mid-range offering?

KingofTrolls said:

 The transistors are produced by TSMC or GlobalFoundries, not AMD/Nvidia. So i give it " higly unlikely" label.  More over, the latest AMD 14nm FinFet was co-produced by GF with Samsung to lower the costs., because more plants needed.

AMD works with the fabs to choose the best transistors for their designs, not all transistors are created equal, some operate with lower power but sacrifice operational frequency.
AMD will often port an older GPU design to a new node in order to "test the fab waters" so to speak and learn about it's various characteristics, so that their next chips can take better advantage of it.

KingofTrolls said:

Not so fast, bro.

Sure, there is a big if here, but there is also the ground to defend my prediction.

Many said the same thing about Ryzen in the Xbox One X... But I digress.

I suggest you wait for an actual announcement before trying to assert something as factual.

:)
Thanks Pem, you're the hero this site doesn't deserve.



Pemalite said: 

AMD works with the fabs to choose the best transistors for their designs, 

Kinda nope, the previous supplier for AMD 14nm FF was GloFo, but AMD got a back up options with Samsung/TSCM just in case the GloFo will not be able to meet the demand.

Some months ago GloFo  announced they simply cease 7nm process and focus on 12nm, so AMD turned  to TSCM, and that makes them a problem or two.

More over, the AMD got problems with GloFo in 2011-2012, the problems were so big that AMD simply cancelled Deccan in one move.

Now they have switched for TSCM, because no other options left, simply that.

As for Vega, it was already delayed,so...



Pemalite said:

I prefer to try and base all assertions on actual known factoids.
Many said the same thing about Ryzen in the Xbox One X... But I digress.

I suggest you wait for an actual announcement before trying to assert something as factual.

We talk about the next gens we know nothing official about, no specs, no release date, no price etc, we talk about tech that we know only thanks to an infographics, and it is YOU basing anything on actual known factoids ? And u are lecturing me, when I make it clear and simple that I am predicting ?

Whats wrong with u?



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KingofTrolls said:

Kinda nope, the previous supplier for AMD 14nm FF was GloFo, but AMD got a back up options with Samsung/TSCM just in case the GloFo will not be able to meet the demand.

So you disagree that AMD works with the fabs, that they choose certain types of transistor/libraries to optimize their design for low power/high frequency and so on in order for AMD to optimize their design for any given process?

As for supplier, that's ultimately irrelevant to the entire prior point. If you think Samsung/TSMC/Global Foundries only offered 14/16nm and that is it... Then you are highly mistaken.
There is a reason why things like 14nm Finfet Low Power Plus/14nm Finfet Low Power Compact/14nm Finfet Low Power Ultimate and more exist... And there is reason why even those have variations... And why even things like patterning are taken into account to skew things even farther.

In short, characteristics of a Transistor can change depending on how it's structured (I.E. Taller fins.), various metals like Germanium, Aluminium, Polysilicon and more all have effects on a Transistors frequency and power consumption characteristics.

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/238896-samsung-announces-new-high-performance-high-power-14nm-node-plans-10nm-improvements-shows-off-7nm-euv-wafer
https://www.extremetech.com/computing/190946-stop-obsessing-over-transistor-counts-theyre-a-terrible-way-of-comparing-chips
https://www.anandtech.com/show/2937/7

KingofTrolls said:

Some months ago GloFo  announced they simply cease 7nm process and focus on 12nm, so AMD turned  to TSCM, and that makes them a problem or two.

And?

KingofTrolls said:

More over, the AMD got problems with GloFo in 2011-2012, the problems were so big that AMD simply cancelled Deccan in one move.

Now they have switched for TSCM, because no other options left, simply that.

There is still options, just options that aren't acceptable to AMD. - I am just wondering, what is your point?


KingofTrolls said:

As for Vega, it was already delayed,so...

According to 2016 information... Vega was supposed to launch in 2017, with a refresh in 2018.
And the information was that AMD was attempting to launch in 2016 if they could get their Vega ducks in a row... But that was a rumor.

And of course, we got Vega in 2017 and a Vega Refresh in 2018, the 2018 variant ended up being a professional part, the consumer part dropping in 2019 which ended up being rebadged as a consumer variant anyway, so technically Vega wasn't delayed.

Navi is still on track for it's 2019 window AFAIK.
https://wccftech.com/amd-vega-10-gpu-hbm2-q4-2016-professional/

KingofTrolls said:

We talk about the next gens we know nothing official about, no specs, no release date, no price etc, we talk about tech that we know only thanks to an infographics, and it is YOU basing anything on actual known factoids ? And u are lecturing me, when I make it clear and simple that I am predicting ?

Whats wrong with u?

Nothing is wrong with me. I am merely stating that "predicting" something cannot be asserted as something that is factual.

I might also ask you to refrain from taking personal jabs going forward. Cheers.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:

1.So you disagree that AMD works with the fabs, that they choose certain types of transistor/libraries to optimize their design for low power/high frequency and so on in order for AMD to optimize their design for any given process?

2.As for supplier, that's ultimately irrelevant to the entire prior point. If you think Samsung/TSMC/Global Foundries only offered 14/16nm and that is it... Then you are highly mistaken.
There is still options, just options that aren't acceptable to AMD. - I am just wondering, what is your point?


3.According to 2016 information... Vega was supposed to launch in 2017, with a refresh in 2018.

And the information was that AMD was attempting to launch in 2016 if they could get their Vega ducks in a row... But that was a rumor.

1.Not at all, of course they are optimizing the design for their needs, just like Sony,MS and all other customers do.  Simply they are more in the Sony with Playstation scheme, or MS with Xbox if we talk about actual production, than lets say " AMD creates" anything, thats all. I am just fucking precision guy, ye they tell me it every day.

 

2. Where exactly did I said anything like that ? Common sense is that next gens will hit 7nm, the APUS will be delivered by AMD, so, TSCM is the only option.

3.There are many plans and information from AMD and they kinda change overtime, but hey, have it your way



KingofTrolls said:

2. Where exactly did I said anything like that ? Common sense is that next gens will hit 7nm, the APUS will be delivered by AMD, so, TSCM is the only option.

Erm. You missed the point. - There will be variants of 7nm even at TSMC.

KingofTrolls said:


3.There are many plans and information from AMD and they kinda change overtime, but hey, have it your way

Not really contradicting my statements though.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:

Not really contradicting my statements though.

Sure, just adding to the discussion. I want to explain the base I have build my prediction on, not contradicting every words others said. This is not Switch will fall of the cliff talking, thats my point..

Thanks for contrubuting, the more eyes look the topic the better, lets meet at the middle of the road, I dont remember having the conversation that long here for years.