"He's racist, homophobic, sexist, highly religious, well, you know... all the usual stuff. Furthermore, he wants to legalize gun ownership in Brazil"

Sorry, I live in the US and these terms are used flippantly to describe people who are anything, but fascists. I would like more clarity.

Secondly, fascists always, and I mean always, strip guns away from the general population (those that agree and dissenters) not make them more available. So, I am confused.

Can I get some non partisan facts? I am not saying he isn't shitty, but based on your opening I am not sure I would label him a fascist.



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Victorlink87 said:
"He's racist, homophobic, sexist, highly religious, well, you know... all the usual stuff. Furthermore, he wants to legalize gun ownership in Brazil"

Sorry, I live in the US and these terms are used flippantly to describe people who are anything, but fascists. I would like more clarity.

First, let me start by saying these "terms" are crimes to human rights and to disregard them just because "they're used flippantly" is essentially giving said crimes a free pass. There were countless people over the course of this thread using this argument, and basically what you all are saying is that there's nothing wrong with being racist, homophobic and all that stuff. He is those things, how else do you want me to call him out for it? It's no different than calling someone a murderer. It's a crime. That aside, this thread has gone on for a long time and I don't feel the need to add anything to it. Everything I've said about Bolsonaro is well documented and it's not hard to find, but I really don't wanna bother go looking for links because I'd rather not think much about it.

Suffice it to say, his government so far has already been involved in countless corruption scandals, has taken several strides towards reducing the quality of our (already terrible) education, took several steps towards removing any kind of environmental control to make sure anyone can help cut down the amazon, and more. Of course, his whole family is now part of the government, cause why not, and all of them have been involved with corruption scandals as well. So much for the government that would bring an end to corruption, and all that stuff.

Furthermore, a gay deputy (the only one ever elected in Brazil) has just left his position and left the country in fear of threats. Although Bolsonaro defends the reduction of age of accountability to under 16 years old, he has defended his 37-year-old son from scandals by saying "he's just a boy". In fact, Bolsonaro's family has been linked to criminal activity surrounding the murder of Marielle Franco, an opposition politician, whose death has since been mocked by Bolsonaro's sons. Yes, they made fun of a dead person.

Ironically, just a few days after stating that Brazil is the country that best takes care of its environment (at the embarassing speech he gave in Davos, whose poor reception has since been called "fake news" by his son), we have seen a repeat of the Mariana disaster from a few years back, related to the exact same company from that time, which barely paid any of the fines they were due for killing dozens of people and fucking up nature, never mind actually improve their facilities to make sure this never happened again.

See, this isn't just a government filled with hate, prejudice and corruption. It's one that's deeply rooted in crime, and quite shamelessly so.



mZuzek said:
Victorlink87 said:
"He's racist, homophobic, sexist, highly religious, well, you know... all the usual stuff. Furthermore, he wants to legalize gun ownership in Brazil"

Sorry, I live in the US and these terms are used flippantly to describe people who are anything, but fascists. I would like more clarity.

First, let me start by saying these "terms" are crimes to human rights and to disregard them just because "they're used flippantly" is essentially giving said crimes a free pass. There were countless people over the course of this thread using this argument, and basically what you all are saying is that there's nothing wrong with being racist, homophobic and all that stuff. He is those things, how else do you want me to call him out for it? It's no different than calling someone a murderer. It's a crime. That aside, this thread has gone on for a long time and I don't feel the need to add anything to it. Everything I've said about Bolsonaro is well documented and it's not hard to find, but I really don't wanna bother go looking for links because I'd rather not think much about it.

Suffice it to say, his government so far has already been involved in countless corruption scandals, has taken several strides towards reducing the quality of our (already terrible) education, took several steps towards removing any kind of environmental control to make sure anyone can help cut down the amazon, and more. Of course, his whole family is now part of the government, cause why not, and all of them have been involved with corruption scandals as well. So much for the government that would bring an end to corruption, and all that stuff.

Furthermore, a gay deputy (the only one ever elected in Brazil) has just left his position and left the country in fear of threats. Although Bolsonaro defends the reduction of age of accountability to under 16 years old, he has defended his 37-year-old son from scandals by saying "he's just a boy". In fact, Bolsonaro's family has been linked to criminal activity surrounding the murder of Marielle Franco, an opposition politician, whose death has since been mocked by Bolsonaro's sons. Yes, they made fun of a dead person.

Ironically, just a few days after stating that Brazil is the country that best takes care of its environment (at the embarassing speech he gave in Davos, whose poor reception has since been called "fake news" by his son), we have seen a repeat of the Mariana disaster from a few years back, related to the exact same company from that time, which barely paid any of the fines they were due for killing dozens of people and fucking up nature, never mind actually improve their facilities to make sure this never happened again.

See, this isn't just a government filled with hate, prejudice and corruption. It's one that's deeply rooted in crime, and quite shamelessly so.

"First, let me start by saying these "terms" are crimes to human rights and to disregard them just because "they're used flippantly" is essentially giving said crimes a free pass. There were countless people over the course of this thread using this argument, and basically what you all are saying is that there's nothing wrong with being racist, homophobic and all that stuff"

So much false here. First, being highly religious isnt a crime in and of itself. Highly religious people have done evil things, they have also done amazingly positive things. So, then being highly religious must not be the root just a way to gain power (usually by those who do evil things) or find the inspiration to do great things (like end slavery in a country).

Secondly, yes those terms are used flippantly. I have stated in the past that I am against legalizing gay marriage in so much that I do not believe government should be involved at all in anyone's marriage. In other words marry who to you want, but the government shouldn't involve itself. I was called homophobic when there isnt a thing homophobic about that view. Its pretty open ended.

Secondly, saying you are against illegal Immigration is basically a guarantee that you will be called a racist in the US, which is laughable.

Some female politicians accuse men of a form of sexism everytime one questions her in a way she can't immediately resond regardless of the dialogue happening.

So, yes those terms are used flippantly to disparage the other side regardless of the facts surrounding the situation. So, yes I need more clarity. More than willing to apply those labels to anyone that fits them.

Don't be mad that in the US these are thrown around carelessly so I can't take unsubstantiated claims seriously.

That being said, if there is proof of those things I will be happy to call him all of the things.

Anyway, I will not go back and read the entire thread as it is too long. I will, however, do some research tomorrow evening. I am tired and ready for bed.

Last edited by Victorlink87 - on 25 January 2019

mZuzek said:
Victorlink87 said:
"He's racist, homophobic, sexist, highly religious, well, you know... all the usual stuff. Furthermore, he wants to legalize gun ownership in Brazil"

Sorry, I live in the US and these terms are used flippantly to describe people who are anything, but fascists. I would like more clarity.

First, let me start by saying these "terms" are crimes to human rights and to disregard them just because "they're used flippantly" is essentially giving said crimes a free pass. There were countless people over the course of this thread using this argument, and basically what you all are saying is that there's nothing wrong with being racist, homophobic and all that stuff. He is those things, how else do you want me to call him out for it? It's no different than calling someone a murderer. It's a crime. That aside, this thread has gone on for a long time and I don't feel the need to add anything to it. Everything I've said about Bolsonaro is well documented and it's not hard to find, but I really don't wanna bother go looking for links because I'd rather not think much about it.

Suffice it to say, his government so far has already been involved in countless corruption scandals, has taken several strides towards reducing the quality of our (already terrible) education, took several steps towards removing any kind of environmental control to make sure anyone can help cut down the amazon, and more. Of course, his whole family is now part of the government, cause why not, and all of them have been involved with corruption scandals as well. So much for the government that would bring an end to corruption, and all that stuff.

Furthermore, a gay deputy (the only one ever elected in Brazil) has just left his position and left the country in fear of threats. Although Bolsonaro defends the reduction of age of accountability to under 16 years old, he has defended his 37-year-old son from scandals by saying "he's just a boy". In fact, Bolsonaro's family has been linked to criminal activity surrounding the murder of Marielle Franco, an opposition politician, whose death has since been mocked by Bolsonaro's sons. Yes, they made fun of a dead person.

Ironically, just a few days after stating that Brazil is the country that best takes care of its environment (at the embarassing speech he gave in Davos, whose poor reception has since been called "fake news" by his son), we have seen a repeat of the Mariana disaster from a few years back, related to the exact same company from that time, which barely paid any of the fines they were due for killing dozens of people and fucking up nature, never mind actually improve their facilities to make sure this never happened again.

See, this isn't just a government filled with hate, prejudice and corruption. It's one that's deeply rooted in crime, and quite shamelessly so.

That all being said. I am sorry that you are so sad. I hope that has improved.



Victorlink87 said:

So much false here. First, being highly religious isnt a crime in and of itself. Highly religious people have done evil things, they have also done amazingly positive things. So, then being highly religious must not be the root just a way to gain power (usually by those who do evil things) or find the inspiration to do great things (like end slavery in a country).

Secondly, yes those terms are used flippantly. I have stated in the past that I am against legalizing gay marriage in so much that I do not believe government should be involved at all in anyone's marriage. In other words marry who to you want, but the government shouldn't involve itself. I was called homophobic when there isnt a thing homophobic about that view. Its pretty open ended.

Yes, thanks for ignoring literally everything I said and confirming you are indeed a homophobe. Great answer.



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mZuzek said:
Victorlink87 said:

So much false here. First, being highly religious isnt a crime in and of itself. Highly religious people have done evil things, they have also done amazingly positive things. So, then being highly religious must not be the root just a way to gain power (usually by those who do evil things) or find the inspiration to do great things (like end slavery in a country).

Secondly, yes those terms are used flippantly. I have stated in the past that I am against legalizing gay marriage in so much that I do not believe government should be involved at all in anyone's marriage. In other words marry who to you want, but the government shouldn't involve itself. I was called homophobic when there isnt a thing homophobic about that view. Its pretty open ended.

Yes, thanks for ignoring literally everything I said and confirming you are indeed a homophobe. Great answer.

Not ignored. I haven't had the time to fact check it, so I didn't even comment on it. Yet.

 

How am I a homophobe?



Victorlink87 said:

How am I a homophobe?

You're against legalizing gay marriage, and you're not?



mZuzek said:
Victorlink87 said:

How am I a homophobe?

You're against legalizing gay marriage, and you're not?

In the sense I want government totally out of marriage. Marriage should be between consenting adults and it should look like however they want. Two men, two women, multiple wives, multiple husbands. As long as they are consenting and of age. The government should not be able to dictate who gets married or how because of the 1st amendment.

If the couples want a prenup or contract then get one, marriage should not be a government contract.

 

In other words, against it because I want government out. I do not want them in straight or LGBTQ marriages. Legalizing it only gave the government more ground over that area. Abolish government control in marriage (,would have made an excellent argument if they had used the 1st amendment)

Last edited by Victorlink87 - on 26 January 2019

Victorlink87 said:
mZuzek said:

You're against legalizing gay marriage, and you're not?

In the sense I want government totally out of marriage. Marriage should be between consenting adults and it should look like however they want. Two men, two women, multiple wives, multiple husbands. As long as they are consenting and of age. The government should not be able to dictate who gets married or how because of the 1st amendment.

If the couples want a prenup or contract then get one, marriage should not be a government contract.

In other words, against it because I want government out. I do not want them in straight or LGBTQ marriages. Legalizing it only gave the government more ground over that area. Abolish government control in marriage (,would have made an excellent argument if they had used the 1st amendment)

Okay I'll take that back then, but really, the government won't pull out of marriage involvement anywhere any time soon.



mZuzek said:
Victorlink87 said:
"He's racist, homophobic, sexist, highly religious, well, you know... all the usual stuff. Furthermore, he wants to legalize gun ownership in Brazil"

Sorry, I live in the US and these terms are used flippantly to describe people who are anything, but fascists. I would like more clarity.

First, let me start by saying these "terms" are crimes to human rights and to disregard them just because "they're used flippantly" is essentially giving said crimes a free pass. There were countless people over the course of this thread using this argument, and basically what you all are saying is that there's nothing wrong with being racist, homophobic and all that stuff. He is those things, how else do you want me to call him out for it? It's no different than calling someone a murderer. It's a crime. That aside, this thread has gone on for a long time and I don't feel the need to add anything to it. Everything I've said about Bolsonaro is well documented and it's not hard to find, but I really don't wanna bother go looking for links because I'd rather not think much about it.

Suffice it to say, his government so far has already been involved in countless corruption scandals, has taken several strides towards reducing the quality of our (already terrible) education, took several steps towards removing any kind of environmental control to make sure anyone can help cut down the amazon, and more. Of course, his whole family is now part of the government, cause why not, and all of them have been involved with corruption scandals as well. So much for the government that would bring an end to corruption, and all that stuff.

Furthermore, a gay deputy (the only one ever elected in Brazil) has just left his position and left the country in fear of threats. Although Bolsonaro defends the reduction of age of accountability to under 16 years old, he has defended his 37-year-old son from scandals by saying "he's just a boy". In fact, Bolsonaro's family has been linked to criminal activity surrounding the murder of Marielle Franco, an opposition politician, whose death has since been mocked by Bolsonaro's sons. Yes, they made fun of a dead person.

Ironically, just a few days after stating that Brazil is the country that best takes care of its environment (at the embarassing speech he gave in Davos, whose poor reception has since been called "fake news" by his son), we have seen a repeat of the Mariana disaster from a few years back, related to the exact same company from that time, which barely paid any of the fines they were due for killing dozens of people and fucking up nature, never mind actually improve their facilities to make sure this never happened again.

See, this isn't just a government filled with hate, prejudice and corruption. It's one that's deeply rooted in crime, and quite shamelessly so.

Yeah, he is all the things you listed. Sould he ever, and I mean ever begin to strip guns away (even if its just from certain groups) from people I would encourage you to flee. Thats the only thing I see that indicates he won't be a full blown fascist. Right now he is an absolute ass hole and corrupt.

Its sad, but something similar although to a much lesser extent happened in the US. Both of these guys were elected by a base that normally would not vote for them. They took advantage of the high percentage of people fed up with corruption and that were extremely marginalized in the public sphere.

 

My friend. I hope things get better in Brazil.