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Forums - General Discussion - ‘Rape Culture’ Is A MYTH | Change My Mind

SecondWar on 15 October 2018
TheBird said:
SecondWar said:

Yep, knew you'd be here. Hi, I'm that 'disgusting human being' from the other thead. You know, the who one who agrees with the underlying principle of MeToo.

Again, your attitude amazes me, but is no longer surprising me. So reports of rape are bothersome to you? Well, I think you need to re-assess your world view, as by your accounts we're not in a civilized world.

Yeah not surprised you completely ignored the rest of my post, and then took my words completely out of context. I said "The fact that people think rape culture exists is bothersome", not that people reporting being rape is bothersome. 

And here is the rest of my post just incase you forgot how to read past the first line "Completely taking the attention away from undeveloped places like the middle east where women and children are just sex objects to their male overlords. But if you want to fight for human rights in the middle east they will kill you, so I understand why they would avoid those places."

Rape culture only exists in the 3rd world, it is an absolute joke to think it exists in the west. This countries paranoia is taking attention away from the real problem in the world, and feminists rather ignore it because its "racist" and "politically incorrect" to say rape culture exists in these 3rd world countries. 

Also don't bother posting on this thread if you're not going to add to it, you made that post specifically to attack me, and not add to the discussion. 

On reflection, I did twist that a bit, but still the way it read left me amazed by apparent dismissiveness of your attitude.

My point was that I think you are living in a bubble with regards to the topic. Have you seen the recent video of a french woman confronting someone who was harassing her, and getting punched for her efforts due to the man's apparent indignation at being called out, or the woman walking through New York video? Having never visted the Middle East, I can't properly compare the situation to there but there are definitely people in the West who behave in a way that correlates with what some people have defined as 'rape culture'.

Edited: Trying to tone it down since the mods have been on to us both.

Last edited by SecondWar - on 15 October 2018

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Runa216 on 15 October 2018
Qwark said:

1. That's not rape and not illegal since the sexual acts where consensual at the time. 

2.Whilst unsexy and not private as fuck the best way to definitely prove consent is give digital consent  before having sex trough a heavily encryptie digi-d or a governments account. Any sexual act in which this consent was not given is rape and a DNA  test can easily prove that. 

Guilty by accusation isn't a sollution just a new problem. Every sexual act leaves some sort of DNA, so that should be found at the very least. 

You've got to be kidding me. 

You know South Park mocked this very idea, right? 



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DrDoomz on 15 October 2018
Runa216 said:
The problem with many arguments about 'rape' and the burden of proof being on the victim is that....short of having the foresight to record it or coaxing a confession out of the rapist, there's virtually no proof of rape. It can't exist. This burden you put on the victim is nearly impossible to fulfil because rape is unlike other forms of abuse.

When you're assaulted on the street, there could be bruises or cuts or abrasions. When you're abused on the street you can call for help and scream 'I'm being attacked'. When you're hurt in that way, there is physical evidence that it happens.

When it comes to rape, even the more egregious examples often take place alone, or in a party while drunk, or with someone you thought loved you. You might not even know that you're being taken advantage of until later and even the strongest of men and women don't want the vulnerability that comes with yelling for help while being raped. Oftentimes the one being abused is not under their own volition.

And unless the rapist is fucking you with a cheese grater or forcing a carrot into you, the chances of there being physical evidence of rape is pretty slim. Sure, you can get a rape kit and prove they ejaculated inside you, but that's really all it can truly prove. Even consensual sex often results in some tissue damage (Some people like it rough; this is just a fact of a loving relationship.)

So what do you propose? In a world full of people like you who put all the burden of proof on the victims and are clearly eager to discredit them, what do you propose is adequate proof of rape? What action do you suggest that can prove rape while also not exposing the victims to senseless and extraneous levels of scrutinization. This isn't like theft or murder or assault, where there's clearly defined proof, so what is it you propose?

I genuinely want to hear an answer, because all I see is a bunch of [redacted] who don't understand consent lashing out because they fear being accused of rape and thus trying to discredit victims with flawed, unfair rhetoric.

So I ask again: If the burden of proof is exclusively on the victim, what do you propose as a reasonable, realistic piece of evidence to back up their claims? What do you suggest doing in the event of rape that would fulfil all your unreasonable demands. You do that, and I'll easily show you a dozen examples of why it doesn't work, why many rapes still go unreported, and why even the reported ones are still unprosecuted.

Don't be a p problem by perpetuating the status quo, be a part of the solution by helping to find and enact positive change.

Don’t know what you want ppl to say here man. No one is saying they have all the answers here. And no one is denying that sexual harassment is hard to prove. If you acknowledge that this is indeed a difficult problem that not even our current law enforcement (who is actually in the front lines trying to solve it) has a clear answer to, why even ask ppl (who aren’t in this field) likely won’t have as much experience in it to provide tangible solutions? The system isn’t perfect. The guilty do get away more often than not. But better the guilty get away than the innocent punished. That is why the system is so strict on burden of proof. What is your alternative?

And what exactly is the problem with perpetuating the status quo? What status quo do you mean? Do you mean the status quo of letting law enforcement do their job and reserving judgement until someone is proven guilty first before drawing conclusions and acting on it? I certainly hope that’s not the problem you mean.

My solution? I don’t have a great one really. But maybe throw more money into law enforcement and forensic research? More money into victim protection, better privacy protection laws and better counseling and support to help encourage victims to step forward? If the answer was easy, then law enforcement would have gotten a better solution nailed down way sooner than anyone in a gaming sales forum would.

Burden of proof and innocent until proven guilty can be frustrating sometimes, sure. Guilty ppl getting away due to lack of evidence or technicalities can make one lose faith in our system. But it is the best system that we can figure out right now. For no matter how bad it can get, the alternative is much worse.

Edit. Not sure why some portions of my reply has small font. Not intentional. Edit 2. Hey it fixed itself somehow...



Azuren on 15 October 2018
Qwark said:
Runa216 said:
The problem with many arguments about 'rape' and the burden of proof being on the victim is that....short of having the foresight to record it or coaxing a confession out of the rapist, there's virtually no proof of rape. It can't exist. This burden you put on the victim is nearly impossible to fulfil because rape is unlike other forms of abuse.

When you're assaulted on the street, there could be bruises or cuts or abrasions. When you're abused on the street you can call for help and scream 'I'm being attacked'. When you're hurt in that way, there is physical evidence that it happens.

When it comes to rape, even the more egregious examples often take place alone, or in a party while drunk, 1. or with someone you thought loved you. You might not even know that you're being taken advantage of until later and even the strongest of men and women don't want the vulnerability that comes with yelling for help while being raped. Oftentimes the one being abused is not under their own volition.

And unless the rapist is fucking you with a cheese grater or forcing a carrot into you, the chances of there being physical evidence of rape is pretty slim. Sure, you can get a rape kit and prove they ejaculated inside you, but that's really all it can truly prove. Even consensual sex often results in some tissue damage (Some people like it rough; this is just a fact of a loving relationship.)

  1. So what do you propose? In a world full of people like you who put all the burden of proof on the victims and are clearly eager to discredit them, what do you propose is adequate proof of rape? What action do you suggest that can prove rape while also not exposing the victims to senseless and extraneous levels of scrutinization. This isn't like theft or murder or assault, where there's clearly defined proof, so what is it you propose? 

I genuinely want to hear an answer, because all I see is a bunch of [redacted] who don't understand consent lashing out because they fear being accused of rape and thus trying to discredit victims with flawed, unfair rhetoric.

So I ask again: If the burden of proof is exclusively on the victim, what do you propose as a reasonable, realistic piece of evidence to back up their claims? What do you suggest doing in the event of rape that would fulfil all your unreasonable demands. You do that, and I'll easily show you a dozen examples of why it doesn't work, why many rapes still go unreported, and why even the reported ones are still unprosecuted.

Don't be a part of the problem by perpetuating the status quo, be a part of the solution by helping to find and enact positive change.

1. That's not rape and not illegal since the sexual acts where consensual at the time. 

2.Whilst unsexy and not private as fuck the best way to definitely prove consent is give digital consent  before having sex trough a heavily encryptie digi-d or a governments account. Any sexual act in which this consent was not given is rape and a DNA  test can easily prove that. 

Guilty by accusation isn't a sollution just a new problem. Every sexual act leaves some sort of DNA, so that should be found at the very least. 

I agree with this first part. You can't retroactively rescind your consent.



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