Forums - Gaming Discussion - Changing lead platforms for the first time since 1998.

Kudos to those who still find time for last gen gaming.  Personally for me, if I wanted to play my catalog of previous gen, I'd plug in my OG phatty and play away, but my backlog of current gen could last me through the middle of next gen at this point, and still more games will be released before next gen even starts.  How the crap people find time to game so much still blows my mind.. gamer since 89, but with work, family, and other things to take care of, I'm lucky to play more than a few hrs a week.  Crap took me almost 4 weeks just to finish God of War.

Anyways, OT.. do what you want to do.., personally for me, I'd rather browse and/or YouTube, exception being YouTube VR, off my phone, tablet, or laptop before I'd ever touch it on my ps4.  Same thing with other media.  Don't understand this whole multimedia narrative with consoles.  If I wasn't planning on gaming, then I'd do it elsewhere.  That's the point of a gaming console isn't it?  The games?



Man.. I hate it when your girl has to leave my place to come back to you..

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Cerebralbore101 said:

More =/= better.

I never even touched on the topic of quality.
But more selection is not a bad thing.

Don't forget that the PC also has some of the most highly rated games of all time... And they are exclusive.

Cerebralbore101 said:

What's your point?

That you need to buy multiple Consoles to achieve the same result?


Cerebralbore101 said:

See the bottom of this post for 4 sources that disagree with you. You can attempt to change the meaning of DRM all you want, but that doesn't stop the fact that most AAA games on PC can't be sold or traded to others. Remember when everyone was up in arms because MS wanted to charge a fee to resell your game? Remember when everyone was up in arms because MS wanted to do 24 hour check ins for a game? Even in some alternate reality where not being able to play a PS4 disc on your PC counts as DRM, nobody would care. What people care about is whether or not a game forces you to prove that you legitimately own a game. What people care about is the ability to sell or trade games freely. The sales results of this generation are a testament to that fact.

There are a multitude of digital barriers in order to prevent the duplication of physical disks... AND prevent them from operating in non-standard devices.
That is DRM.

I have also already agreed with you/others already that the PC has DRM in various forms, making your entire argument essentially wasted.

Cerebralbore101 said:

Agreed. I pointed out logicalincrements.com's list of parts, as a source for my claim. You can see in their list, that they show that a 1K rig can play games like League, and less demanding games at 4K. Being able to play older games in 4K with a rig like that was never in doubt.

And todays' demanding games are tomorrows older/simpler games.
I mean, Crysis used to bring down even the toughest of PC's, today it is not even much of an issue.

Todays' AAA games that would be impossible to run at 4k, will be possible to run at 4k on 1k hardware a few years from now.

It's one of the PC's strengths.

Cerebralbore101 said:

First you have to log into your steam account though, and that is when the DRM kicks in. It checks to see if your steam account has permission to play that game. And your steam game is still locked to your library. You can share it with your friends, but you can never sell it from your steam library without selling your entire steam account.

I agree.
But the point you are missing is that... Digital PC games are just as easy to transport as console games, only the means of transport is different.

Cerebralbore101 said:


GoG isn't DRM, because... 

1. If I want I can sell my install file to somebody else. Sure, that would violate the TOS for GoG, but old N64 games used to come with similar TOS for physical versions, stating that you had no right to sell your physical copy. People ignored that, and anybody is capable of ignoring the GoG TOS.

Well. You aren't really contradicting my point with this. But okay.

Cerebralbore101 said:


2. GoG gives you the option to download an install file that will never ask you to prove that you legally own said game.

Same with this point.

Cerebralbore101 said:

It can play most of them, and that is enough to dismantle your argument.

Incorrect.

Cerebralbore101 said:


When is the last time you sat down with a Sony or Nintendo exclusive and gave it a fair go?

Zelda: Breath of the Wild, then Uncharted 4, before that would have been Halo 5.
My preferred Genre tends to be RTS, hence why PC is the best platform for me in that regard... Sure Xbox has Halo Wars... But that pales in comparison to a high quality PC RTS title.

Cerebralbore101 said:

Not all of my Steam games will run on my Linux computer. And it is identical to my Windows computer, except that it runs on Linux instead. Therefore DRM. Technological incompatibility =/= DRM.

False. You can run every Windows game ever released on a Linux PC or a Mac PC.
There is one little piece of technology that can achieve this. Want me to point it out?

You simply cannot do the same with a Playstation or Xbox because the Operating System has several layers of mechanisms which prevent side loading/emulating/running of titles.
You actually need to HACK your console to circumvent it's security in order to allow the side loading of homebrew/pirated titles... That doesn't exist on open platforms like the PC.




--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

BillyBong said:

Kudos to those who still find time for last gen gaming.  Personally for me, if I wanted to play my catalog of previous gen, I'd plug in my OG phatty and play away, but my backlog of current gen could last me through the middle of next gen at this point, and still more games will be released before next gen even starts.  How the crap people find time to game so much still blows my mind.. gamer since 89, but with work, family, and other things to take care of, I'm lucky to play more than a few hrs a week.  Crap took me almost 4 weeks just to finish God of War.

Anyways, OT.. do what you want to do.., personally for me, I'd rather browse and/or YouTube, exception being YouTube VR, off my phone, tablet, or laptop before I'd ever touch it on my ps4.  Same thing with other media.  Don't understand this whole multimedia narrative with consoles.  If I wasn't planning on gaming, then I'd do it elsewhere.  That's the point of a gaming console isn't it?  The games?

Amen brother. To all of it.

I'm in the exact same boat. I'm hardly able to find time playing new games let alone old games. But I don't think we're alone on that one. One of the reasons why PlayStation didn't invest in bc is because the feature wasn't greatly used on PS3.



Cerebralbore101 said:

Edit: Sorry for the terrible formatting. Pema won't read my sources unless I put them here. 

Pemalite said: 

I can compare every Playstation console, be it fixed or handheld to the PC's game library and the PC will still have more games.

More =/= better. 

Every PC game is playable on the PC.

What's your point? 

The Physical version is not DRM free.

See the bottom of this post for 4 sources that disagree with you. You can attempt to change the meaning of DRM all you want, but that doesn't stop the fact that most AAA games on PC can't be sold or traded to others. Remember when everyone was up in arms because MS wanted to charge a fee to resell your game? Remember when everyone was up in arms because MS wanted to do 24 hour check ins for a game? Even in some alternate reality where not being able to play a PS4 disc on your PC counts as DRM, nobody would care. What people care about is whether or not a game forces you to prove that you legitimately own a game. What people care about is the ability to sell or trade games freely. The sales results of this generation are a testament to that fact. 

Older games should do 4k just fine.
The great thing about PC though is that when you buy/upgrade your PC... You can run all your older games at higher resolutions and settings.

Agreed. I pointed out logicalincrements.com's list of parts, as a source for my claim. You can see in their list, that they show that a 1K rig can play games like League, and less demanding games at 4K. Being able to play older games in 4K with a rig like that was never in doubt. 

I can stick my Steam games on an external HDD, plug it into a friends PC and start playing, no different from your physical games.

First you have to log into your steam account though, and that is when the DRM kicks in. It checks to see if your steam account has permission to play that game. And your steam game is still locked to your library. You can share it with your friends, but you can never sell it from your steam library without selling your entire steam account. 

And the reason why GOG games isn't DRM... Isn't because it won't run on a Playstation console... It's because Sony wouldn't allow it to run, that's the ultimate difference here.
The console itself is also DRM.

GoG isn't DRM, because... 

1. If I want I can sell my install file to somebody else. Sure, that would violate the TOS for GoG, but old N64 games used to come with similar TOS for physical versions, stating that you had no right to sell your physical copy. People ignored that, and anybody is capable of ignoring the GoG TOS. 

2. GoG gives you the option to download an install file that will never ask you to prove that you legally own said game. 

The Wii can't play all those Nintendo console released games over that entire time period.

It can play most of them, and that is enough to dismantle your argument. 

Your argument is ultimately irrelevant as I already stated that my tastes will differ from others.

When is the last time you sat down with a Sony or Nintendo exclusive and gave it a fair go?

That is a fundamental change in technology. It's a silly comparison.
The Playstation 4 is using x86, Graphics Core Next, *Nix derived OS, OpenGL and so on. - If it wasn't for DRM, it would be perfectly playable on a PC of similar build, natively.

Not all of my Steam games will run on my Linux computer. And it is identical to my Windows computer, except that it runs on Linux instead. Therefore DRM. Technological incompatibility =/= DRM. 

 

https://techterms.com/definition/drm

DRM stands for "Digital Rights Management." DRM refers to a collection of systems used to protect the copyrights of electronic media. These include digital music and movies, as well as other data that is stored and transferred digitally. For example, the Apple iTunes Music Store uses a DRM system to limit the number of computers that songs can be played on. Each audio file downloaded from the iTunes music store includes information about the owner of the file and how many times the file has been transferred. The protected files will not play on computers that have not been authorized to play the music.

Digital Rights Management is important to publishers of electronic media since it helps ensure they will receive the appropriate revenue for their products. By controlling the trading, protection, monitoring, and tracking of digital media, DRM helps publishers limit the illegal propagation of copyrighted works. This can be accomplished by using digital watermarks or proprietary file encryption on the media they distribute. Whatever method publishers choose to employ, DRM helps them make sure that their digital content is only used by those who have paid for it.

https://www.techopedia.com/definition/3986/digital-rights-management-drm

Definition - What does Digital Rights Management (DRM)mean?

Digital rights management  (DRM) is any access control technology used to protect and license digital intellectual property (IP). DRM is used by publishers, manufacturers and IP owners for digital content and device monitoring.

Digital media licensees benefit from an open and fair range of DRM licensing options, which balance the rights of IP owners and Internet users, translating to exponential profits for digital product  manufacturers and retailers.

 

 

 

 

DRM protects copyrighted digital software , music, films, TV shows, games and similar media.

Consumer advocacy groups argue that aggressive DRM protection denies fair digital media access. However, DRM continues to be a viable tool for managing digital privacy, averting piracy and fair compensation to IP owners

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/glossary/drm/

Digital Rights Management (DRM) A technology used to protect the interests of owners of content and services (such as copyright owners). Typically, authorized recipients or users must acquire a license in order to use the protected material — files, music, movies. DRM enables secure distribution and/or disables illegal distribution of the data. OMA DRM is a Digital Rights Management standard published by the Open Mobile Alliance. DRM writes to the Master Boot Record (MBR) and cannot be removed without a hard-drive reformat.
DRMnoun [ U ] 
UK  /diː.ɑːrˈem/ US  /diː.ɑːrˈem/

 abbreviation for Digital Rights Management: types of technology used to preventpeople from illegally copying softwaremusicfilms, etc.:

DRM can ensure that programs distributed by internet are legal copies for which the copyright holderis being paid a fee.
As you can see DRM has nothing to do with whether or not you can use a certain piece of media on a certain device. 
Conina said: 

Phase 2: the straw man argument.

That's not a strawman. I'm comparing the structure of your argument to the structure of another argument, in order to point out the flaws. 

For example: "Only true Americans read the bible." "No true Scotsman eats porridge."

I didn't think I'd have to spell it out for you, but here goes. The shopkeeper is standing in a market selling fruit for consumption. He says that he has every fruit known to man, and everyone clearly understands that since he is in a market meant for selling food, he means every edible fruit known to man. But of course the wiseguy in my example utterly ignores the context in order to "be right". Its clear from my previous posts in this thread that I was talking about non-Indie games. A.K.A games that aren't on the eShop or PSN. 

 I know where you're going with this, and I agree to an extent. Yes, there is DRM on consoles, but the important thing is that consoles at least offer a DRM free physical version. GoG has a great library, but it is still missing about 80% of quality AAA multiplats. And as far as I know humble bundle just offers up a steam code, or some other DRM version. 

I agree with the bolded. The prices for digital versions of AAA games on consoles are a joke.  Consoles also have DRM, but they have way less than PC. I'd say there's about a 1 in 5 chance of a AAA game coming to GoG, while almost all AAA games on consoles are available at retail. If its on GoG I'll get it for PC for sure. But otherwise I'll be going for whatever version is DRM free. 

 

SO no definition of DRM that includes not being able to read a book in a language you don't understand as a mean to prevent you reading it?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Pemalite said: 
Cerebralbore101 said:

Not all of my Steam games will run on my Linux computer. And it is identical to my Windows computer, except that it runs on Linux instead. Therefore DRM. Technological incompatibility =/= DRM. 

False. You can run every Windows game ever released on a Linux PC or a Mac PC.
There is one little piece of technology that can achieve this. Want me to point it out?

You simply cannot do the same with a Playstation or Xbox because the Operating System has several layers of mechanisms which prevent side loading/emulating/running of titles.
You actually need to HACK your console to circumvent it's security in order to allow the side loading of homebrew/pirated titles... That doesn't exist on open platforms like the PC.


And what is it? 



The sentence below is false. 
The sentence above is true.