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Forums - General Discussion - Do you believe in God? Why/Why not?

 

Do you believe in any god?

Yes 63 36.21%
 
No 111 63.79%
 
Total:174
SpokenTruth said:
Runa216 said:

Um, hello? 911? I'm calling to report a murder...

(As an aside, I used to do stuff like this all the time. Sentence by sentence breakdown explaining in detail why every step of their logical process was just hilariously wrong and off-base. I came to realize in time that the more you prove someone wrong, the deeper they dig in your heels. you're right, and I want you to know I appreciate you, but if you wanted to convince him, you're wasting your time, sadly.)

I've often thought not to do a full breakdown of posts like these, and while you are correct that it often serves little purpose in persuading the individual being quoted, it does have value to the community at large.

I may not persuade him (though it would be great if it did and it has on occasion) but it might persuade someone else on the periphery. Another member, a lurker or a guest. 

And of course, there is the community factor itself.  For some, it's entertainment.  For others, it stokes newer debate.  So in that sense, I may not be doing a full breakdown for the sole benefit of whom I quoted but rather for the benefit everyone else.

Like they say, when you engage in debate you're not doing it for the sake of your opponent but for the audience. 



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SpokenTruth said:
Metallox said:

Because it theorically means good for all of us. 

"Good" based on what?  From who's perspective of morality? 

Typo on theoretically, damn. 

Good based on the teachings and designs of the original messengers of each religion. They, after all, communicate the intentions of their respective deities. It's also from their own perspective of morality. 

Yes, this effectively means that the values of each religion are completely arbitrary and man-made, so they don't necessarily represent the divinity of each religion. 

But, I mean, that's why I said in theory it means good for us. We are supposed to take for granted these people's words and believe their knowledge comes from a deity, which in turn will keep us from all evil. 

I'm not sure if I responded like I had to, btw, lol



I was raised catholic my whole life and was religious most of it until I started college and started studying biology and physics.

The universe is simply just too vast for any idea of a traditional God figure seen in conventional religion to hold. We are simply a species of chemical scum on a tiny tiny rock in a universe that is simply so vast it is impossible to comprehend. In other words we are incredibly insignificant which is like the antithesis of religious teachings.

Thats not to say I'm opposed to the idea of a higher power of some sort, maybe something like a higher dimensional being as there are some strange things in physics that just do not make sense, but when it comes to the idea of God in the traditional sense of modern religion i definitely reject it.

I don't necessarily hate the idea of religion as it does provide a moral compass for some people (albeit a flawed one) and it keeps people sane. However, when powers abuse and exploit religion for conflict or other unethical problems that's when I have a huge problem with religion. That and the fact that people try to use it as a way to deny tentative truths of science lol.



Metallox said:
SpokenTruth said:

"Good" based on what?  From who's perspective of morality? 

Typo on theoretically, damn. 

Good based on the teachings and designs of the original messengers of each religion. They, after all, communicate the intentions of their respective deities. It's also from their own perspective of morality. 

Yes, this effectively means that the values of each religion are completely arbitrary and man-made, so they don't necessarily represent the divinity of each religion. 

But, I mean, that's why I said in theory it means good for us. We are supposed to take for granted these people's words and believe their knowledge comes from a deity, which in turn will keep us from all evil. 

I'm not sure if I responded like I had to, btw, lol

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Are you proposing this is the reason that is given for why we should believe them..?  Or are you suggesting this is actually a good reason to believe?



Ethio89 said:
I reverted to becoming a believer a couple of weeks ago because science couldn't explain something important - consciousness.

You can piece together carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, and hydrogen all you want, and through the laws of physics you can create beings that walk, talk, and respond to stimuli, but awareness of yourself and the environment did not make sense to me when considering it occurred as a natural evolutionary process.

Our brain consists of neurons which follow the rules of physics. There is no purpose to a consciousness when you can simply behave the same towards stimuli without one (like a robot would depending on how it is programmed).

I have a problem with this post. Although it is true that we have yet to truly bridge biology and psychology which is the frontier of consciousness we have made up a lot of ground in the area and are still actively finding new developments that I'm sure will lead us to an answer one day or another. This will echo other arguments in this thread which argue that just because we don't understand something doesn't mean it is the work of God. Consciousness still obeys the laws of physics whether we want to or not which is why the free will controversy in philosophy is a thing in the first place. 

Pain was another thing that seemed unexplainable for years but eventually neurobiologists were able to piece together that puzzle. Was it the work of God then too?



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JWeinCom said:
Metallox said:

Typo on theoretically, damn. 

Good based on the teachings and designs of the original messengers of each religion. They, after all, communicate the intentions of their respective deities. It's also from their own perspective of morality. 

Yes, this effectively means that the values of each religion are completely arbitrary and man-made, so they don't necessarily represent the divinity of each religion. 

But, I mean, that's why I said in theory it means good for us. We are supposed to take for granted these people's words and believe their knowledge comes from a deity, which in turn will keep us from all evil. 

I'm not sure if I responded like I had to, btw, lol

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Are you proposing this is the reason that is given for why we should believe them..?  Or are you suggesting this is actually a good reason to believe?

First one, I guess. I first just declare that the "good" each religion pursues is based directly on what their creators told, which could or could not be based on the very words of a high being. However, for us and our limited scope, it's at least clear the "good" of each religion is based on man-made values, because the intervention of a deity cannot be proven. In the past that may have been useful for religious people to spread their teachings, but today it's not enough to justify religions as "good". 

Sorry if I'm not being clear, I have issues with English being a third language and also have comprehension issues of my own, but I like religious debates. 



Metallox said:
JWeinCom said:

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Are you proposing this is the reason that is given for why we should believe them..?  Or are you suggesting this is actually a good reason to believe?

First one, I guess. I first just declare that the "good" each religion pursues is based directly on what their creators told, which could or could not be based on the very words of a high being. However, for us and our limited scope, it's at least clear the "good" of each religion is based on man-made values, because the intervention of a deity cannot be proven. In the past that may have been useful for religious people to spread their teachings, but today it's not enough to justify religions as "good". 

Sorry if I'm not being clear, I have issues with English being a third language and also have comprehension issues of my own, but I like religious debates. 

No worries.  It's a complicated topic.  Most people have difficulty discussing it even in their first language.  If this is your third, that's quite impressive.



For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.