Forums - General Discussion - Do you believe in God? Why/Why not?

Do you believe in any god?

Yes 63 36.42%
 
No 110 63.58%
 
Total:173
sales2099 said:
OhNoYouDont said:

That's a bold proclamation that isn't true for most believers.

For instance, does your belief influence other aspects of your life? Church attendance, social circles, confirmation bias, metaethical considerations, etc.

It's very dangerous to believe in things for which there is no evidence, especially when such beliefs are capable of influencing our actions. Even today, people are killed for being gay, atheist, being immodest, or even something as banal as drawing a cartoon of a religious character due to convictions.

But my beliefs don't lead to that

Sure they do. Perhaps not in the extreme examples, but certainly things come into play like abortion, gay marriage, prayer in school, creationism, etc.

Now if you're specifically addressing deism and no other baggage with it, I agree it's benign. Same as a belief in leprechauns.

I am hesitant to bring organized religion in this so I’ll explain further. A belief in a higher power and life after death is preferable to a rather depressing notion that everything is just there just because and when you die it’s the end. 

I gain nothing if I’m an atheist but I have everything to gain by being open minded to the concept. And I can’t stress enough this has no bearing on how I live my life. I live the best life I can and make choices on what I deem to be right and wrong. It literally only applies after I die so I really have nothing to loose. 

It's preferable that I am Superman, but do I believe I am? No, because that's not what the evidence says. Childish fantasies are best abandoned in favor of reality in my opinion, but to each their own I guess.

You're not at all open-minded to being wrong, so as a matter of fact you are closed-minded. This is not the case for myself, nor many atheists who approached the question openly and honestly and found absolutely no evidence for anything supernatural.

You mention right and wrong - what informs this? Religion? Which one? Do you see how you're locked into beliefs leading to actions yet or still missing the boat?



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Snoopy said:
JWeinCom said:

As of now we don't know if there was a beginning in the sense we understand, because we don't understand how time worked in the early state of the universe, or as far back as we can see.  We don't know if there was a very beginning or if there were, where matter and energy might have come by at that point, and we don't know that matter or energy are not eternal since as far as we can tell neither can be created or destroyed.

The fact that we don't know though, doesn't mean any random solution becomes valid.  If you want to make a claim that you DO know, you have to show actual evidence, not just say "well you don't have a better explanation".

I got a good explanation and it is a proven one at that. God exists outside of this universe where our time, matter and space doesn't apply and we already proved it. Think about it, humans invented computers with intelligent AI, huge worlds when it comes to gaming and argubally social media and yet we are outside of the computer and not inside of it. 

Proof that a god exists? Where? I've been scouting philosophical literature for years. Plantinga was the last dude to make any noise on this topic with his modal ontological argument and it is replete with errors and has been taken to task by a plethora of philosophers.

Oh but you have proof right?

Jesus, the hubris of the parties of god is truly astounding.

"I'll just assume a god exists, then things make sense!"



OhNoYouDont said:
Snoopy said:

I got a good explanation and it is a proven one at that. God exists outside of this universe where our time, matter and space doesn't apply and we already proved it. Think about it, humans invented computers with intelligent AI, huge worlds when it comes to gaming and argubally social media and yet we are outside of the computer and not inside of it. 

Proof that a god exists? Where? I've been scouting philosophical literature for years. Plantinga was the last dude to make any noise on this topic with his modal ontological argument and it is replete with errors and has been taken to task by a plethora of philosophers.

Oh but you have proof right?

Jesus, the hubris of the parties of god is truly astounding.

"I'll just assume a god exists, then things make sense!"

People confuse a consistent explanation with a good explanation.

It's basically like if there was a woman who was shot in the street with no witnesses, and the prosecutor says "Well if Mike Jones had a gun, and was at that location at the time, and had a motive to kill her, then he could be the killer, so therefore he is the killer." 

And when the defense attorney says "But you haven't shown that Mike was there, or that he had a gun, or that he had a motive," the prosecutor says "WELL THEN WHO DO YOU THINK KILLED HER?!"



The good old lovely "god of the gaps" argument.

I don't know xy so it must be god. And it's not just a god, but the one I currently believe in.



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dark_gh0st_b0y said:
vivster said:
I don't understand this "tiny chance" argument. The earth is in a totally random place in the universe, so why does it matter that it is where it is? Now if it actually was in the exact center of the universe or some other special place we can talk about it because that would be astounding. If this place the earth is in is so special then I'd really like someone to explain to me what's so special about this random place. And while we're at it explain why there are so many other plantes in our solar system and why not every planet has life. I mean what's the point in creating 1 octillion planets and putting life on supposedly only one?

I don't like when people who have no concept of "evidence" want to go all math on me.

interesting thoughts!! much better than mentioning unicorns :D

depends on whether life can exist in different conditions than earth's, imagine that even a slight increase of planet's temperature due to a 'hole' in the ozone can kick off a chain that in the end will make the planet uninhabitable, if there is life under different conditions it could also be made of very different elements in order to be sustainable, something we cannot even imagine

scientists have been using far reaching detectors in satellites but have yet to detect anything, but taking into account the number of planets and the universe size, it is very much possible

the tiny chance of life being a random accident makes perfect sense, cause if the universe never existed, then earth would not exist either, regardless of its position, therefore it is obviously part of the calculation

now imagine something else, say the universe exists, but absolutely no planet on it supports life....!! is there any point for the universe existing at all then? what's the point of endless silence and random rocks moving about each other?

the existence of the universe, let alone life on a planet is a miracle, and I also find it astonishing how genesis in the bible, scientifically proven and accepted to be written centuries B.C., starts with 'let there be light, and there was light' - perfectly compatible and a huge 'big bang' explosion that science cannot explain where it came from, then the bible says 'and then he separated the day from the night', meaning the result from earth's rotation about the sun that created day and night... truly fascinating!!

and of course it was revealed as simple as can be it to be understood by ancient people, you wouldn't expect them to understand about the universe and the forces that create orbits, the point of religion is never to teach science, the point here is creation

You say that there is no point of a bunch of dead rocks to exist. Then why do a bunch of dead rocks exist in the first place? Also, what makes you think that humans are in any way special? In the grand scheme of the universe humans and any other living things are random bunched up atoms that follow natural physical laws. Nothing about humans is special, we're no more than fleshy rocks. We exist from the very same atoms that are abundant everywhere in the universe.

Next point. Religious people like to use god as an example of the creator of the universe because as of now we cannot accurately explain what happened before the big bang. That's really cool and all. I cannot say either and I would be a really bad scientist if I completely rejected the notion that the universe might have been caused by an intelligent entity that lives outside of it. However here comes my big problem with religion. It is a huge jump from "someone created the universe" to "there is that bearded fellow who knows all, does all and loves us so much". I do not reject the theory of a grand creator, but I do very much reject the notion of every religion to portray that creator as omnipotent, omnipresent  AND omnibenevolent when it is obvious that he cannot possibly be all 3.

The story of how the universe started is a mystery, but everything that happened after the big bang is 100% explainable by simple physics, without the need of any additional influence. The fact that we haven't found life on other planets yet is a joke argument because humans are very much limited by physics and our range to detect things is so incredibly small that it's no wonder, especially considering how low the chances are for life to develop on a planet. Pulling that argument is like sitting in a boat in an ocean and then claiming that land doesn't exist because you can't see any.

On that notion I would like to pose another question. What happens if we do find life some day? What will this mean for an all powerful creator who has chosen earth to create life? Wouldn't that prove all the scriptures wrong?



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vivster said:
dark_gh0st_b0y said:

answers below bold :P

You say that there is no point of a bunch of dead rocks to exist. Then why do a bunch of dead rocks exist in the first place? Also, what makes you think that humans are in any way special? In the grand scheme of the universe humans and any other living things are random bunched up atoms that follow natural physical laws. Nothing about humans is special, we're no more than fleshy rocks. We exist from the very same atoms that are abundant everywhere in the universe.

if there is no god then indeed we are a result of random atoms coming together in the right conditions, which leads to us being a kind of insanely over-complicated robots, programmed by DNA sequences on how to respond based on our surroundings... WITH NO FREE WILL - can science prove that we have no free will?

there cannot be proof for god - just signs - but the contrary can be proved!! yet science cannot prove that there is no free will

Christianity supports that god gave us free will (or what we call a soul), and that's what makes humans special

Next point. Religious people like to use god as an example of the creator of the universe because as of now we cannot accurately explain what happened before the big bang. That's really cool and all. I cannot say either and I would be a really bad scientist if I completely rejected the notion that the universe might have been caused by an intelligent entity that lives outside of it. However here comes my big problem with religion. It is a huge jump from "someone created the universe" to "there is that bearded fellow who knows all, does all and loves us so much". I do not reject the theory of a grand creator, but I do very much reject the notion of every religion to portray that creator as omnipotent, omnipresent  AND omnibenevolent when it is obvious that he cannot possibly be all 3.

yes you definitely have a point here!! personally I accept that there is a creator by mathematical probability, and therefore it makes sense to me that such a being would try to reach us and shows us some basic things after watching our shit, and based on that, if there is a religion that can be true, that is Christianity, based on how Jesus teaching makes sense, how it is the faith that gives us hope, reasonable freedom compared to other religions and a better life in general, and there are too many coincidences with science of course, even the evidence that Old Testament was written hundreds of year BC and yet evidence that Christ existed when he did, predicted to change the world, and his teachings are just so real, , things that science can never teach ya, his early followers going through the worse of humanity to deny him, and the list goes on and on, it is just makes too much sense to me to be fake, even the most genius writer could never plot that through the centuries...!!

Christianity accepts that we cannot understand god, we have some guidance from him or the trinity or whatever but that's it, there's absolutely no point trying to figure out something beyond our understanding, just like a dog can never understand wtf its owners are doing :P we just live our lives in hope, trying our best under Jesus, and we will all find out eventually

I don't reject things because of ancient representations and interpretations, I read things myself, and god could literally be anything, a deity, a universal power, a nature force, anything we cannot reach-understand, god is just a word for the creator

in my view agnostic and Christian is not that far, one of the reasons why I do not stick to sub-divisions... Christians believe that the creator saw our shit and did something to guide us, no need to be bothered much with what exactly god is, it is his existence that matters

The story of how the universe started is a mystery, but everything that happened after the big bang is 100% explainable by simple physics, without the need of any additional influence.

... simple physics? there are so many things on the human body that we cannot explain, otherwise we would be able to fix anything on our body, we would resurrect the dead and be immortal... science is incomplete

the big bang is everything! everything was perfectly calculated from the start, without the big bang and what caused it, there would be no physics to lead to us

makes more sense that such a being had a perfect plan from the start rather than doing things on the go

The fact that we haven't found life on other planets yet is a joke argument because humans are very much limited by physics and our range to detect things is so incredibly small that it's no wonder, especially considering how low the chances are for life to develop on a planet. Pulling that argument is like sitting in a boat in an ocean and then claiming that land doesn't exist because you can't see any.

the boat in the ocean.... but we know there is land right, otherwise where did the boat and human come from

based on chance, life beyond earth can very well exist, the point is how hard it is for the conditions to match for live to exist, and how huge the universe is, beyond our perception, that our advanced as we believe science could not detect even a slight sign, a radio wave, anything

On that notion I would like to pose another question. What happens if we do find life some day? What will this mean for an all powerful creator who has chosen earth to create life? Wouldn't that prove all the scriptures wrong?

the writings speak of how earth came to be inhabitable under god's creation, it does not refer to or exclude any extraterrestrial life, it would then have to explain planets and the universe etc which is not the aim here

I don't see how possible life on other planets comes into conflict with the scriptures, human is a result of god's creation by the bible, but so are the animals, plants, insects, microorganisms and everything else that is part of our very existence and survival, too

there could very well be any kind of life on other planets, but the most interesting question would be, are they just plant like or animal like creatures? or do they have enough intelligence to have been contacted and be guided by the creator? do they have enough intelligence to overcome animal instinct?

maybe they are much more intelligent than us and god came closer to them, gave them more abilities and senses that we cannot imagine so our science is a game for them, but then would they not have been able to contact us? have they done so in the long ancient past, crazy beings we see in South American caves and Egypt and we call human fantasy, but have been regarded as their gods? who knows, there are so many things unexplained like buildings and stone cuts that no way could be achieved at the stone age, they can barely be achieved today or not at all, scientists that leave all these possibilities open!!

I don't say I believe these things at all, I focus on what actually affects my life and my loved ones life, but is interesting to hear the arguments of those scientists and historians

damn I'm literally writing essays in here without even noticing :/

 

Last edited by dark_gh0st_b0y - on 22 April 2020

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dark_gh0st_b0y said:
vivster said:

answers below bold :P

You say that there is no point of a bunch of dead rocks to exist. Then why do a bunch of dead rocks exist in the first place? Also, what makes you think that humans are in any way special? In the grand scheme of the universe humans and any other living things are random bunched up atoms that follow natural physical laws. Nothing about humans is special, we're no more than fleshy rocks. We exist from the very same atoms that are abundant everywhere in the universe.

1. if there is no god then indeed we are a result of random atoms coming together in the right conditions, which leads to us being a kind of insanely over-complicated robots, programmed by DNA sequences on how to respond based on our surroundings... WITH NO FREE WILL - can science prove that we have no free will?

there cannot be proof for god - just signs - but the contrary can be proved!! yet science cannot prove that there is no free will

Christianity supports that god gave us free will (or what we call a soul), and that's what makes humans special

Next point. Religious people like to use god as an example of the creator of the universe because as of now we cannot accurately explain what happened before the big bang. That's really cool and all. I cannot say either and I would be a really bad scientist if I completely rejected the notion that the universe might have been caused by an intelligent entity that lives outside of it. However here comes my big problem with religion. It is a huge jump from "someone created the universe" to "there is that bearded fellow who knows all, does all and loves us so much". I do not reject the theory of a grand creator, but I do very much reject the notion of every religion to portray that creator as omnipotent, omnipresent  AND omnibenevolent when it is obvious that he cannot possibly be all 3.

yes you definitely have a point here!! personally I accept that there is a creator by mathematical probability, and therefore it makes sense to me that such a being would try to reach us and shows us some basic things after watching our shit, and based on that, if there is a religion that can be true, that is Christianity, based on how Jesus teaching makes sense, how it is the faith that gives us hope, reasonable freedom compared to other religions and a better life in general, and there are too many coincidences with science of course, even the evidence that Old Testament was written hundreds of year BC and yet evidence that Christ existed when he did, predicted to change the world, and his teachings are just so real, , things that science can never teach ya, his early followers going through the worse of humanity to deny him, and the list goes on and on, it is just makes too much sense to me to be fake, even the most genius writer could never plot that through the centuries...!!

Christianity accepts that we cannot understand god, we have some guidance from him or the trinity or whatever but that's it, there's absolutely no point trying to figure out something beyond our understanding, just like a dog can never understand wtf its owners are doing :P we just live our lives in hope, trying our best under Jesus, and we will all find out eventually

I don't reject things because of ancient representations and interpretations, I read things myself, and god could literally be anything, a deity, a universal power, a nature force, anything we cannot reach-understand, god is just a word for the creator

in my view agnostic and Christian is not that far, one of the reasons why I do not stick to sub-divisions... Christians believe that the creator saw our shit and did something to guide us, no need to be bothered much with what exactly god is, it is his existence that matters

The story of how the universe started is a mystery, but everything that happened after the big bang is 100% explainable by simple physics, without the need of any additional influence.

2.... simple physics? there are so many things on the human body that we cannot explain, otherwise we would be able to fix anything on our body, we would resurrect the dead and be immortal... science is incomplete

the big bang is everything! everything was perfectly calculated from the start, without the big bang and what caused it, there would be no physics to lead to us

3.makes more sense that such a being had a perfect plan from the start rather than doing things on the go

The fact that we haven't found life on other planets yet is a joke argument because humans are very much limited by physics and our range to detect things is so incredibly small that it's no wonder, especially considering how low the chances are for life to develop on a planet. Pulling that argument is like sitting in a boat in an ocean and then claiming that land doesn't exist because you can't see any.

4. the boat in the ocean.... but we know there is land right, otherwise where did the boat and human come from

based on chance, life beyond earth can very well exist, the point is how hard it is for the conditions to match for live to exist, and how huge the universe is, beyond our perception, that our advanced as we believe science could not detect even a slight sign, a radio wave, anything

On that notion I would like to pose another question. What happens if we do find life some day? What will this mean for an all powerful creator who has chosen earth to create life? Wouldn't that prove all the scriptures wrong?

the writings speak of how earth came to be inhabitable under god's creation, it does not refer to or exclude any extraterrestrial life, it would then have to explain planets and the universe etc which is not the aim here

I don't see how possible life on other planets comes into conflict with the scriptures, human is a result of god's creation by the bible, but so are the animals, plants, insects, microorganisms and everything else that is part of our very existence and survival, too

there could very well be any kind of life on other planets, but the most interesting question would be, are they just plant like or animal like creatures? or do they have enough intelligence to have been contacted and be guided by the creator? do they have enough intelligence to overcome animal instinct?

maybe they are much more intelligent than us and god came closer to them, gave them more abilities and senses that we cannot imagine so our science is a game for them, but then would they not have been able to contact us? have they done so in the long ancient past, crazy beings we see in South American caves and Egypt and we call human fantasy, but have been regarded as their gods? who knows, there are so many things unexplained like buildings and stone cuts that no way could be achieved at the stone age, they can barely be achieved today or not at all, scientists that leave all these possibilities open!!

I don't say I believe these things at all, I focus on what actually affects my life and my loved ones life, but is interesting to hear the arguments of those scientists and historians

damn I'm literally writing essays in here without even noticing :/

 

1. Free will is a philosophical concept that doesn't exist in the physical world. It's a made up thing that humans use to order societies. Every living being is acting upon its past experience, its outside influences, based on their own genetic make up. Free will is about as real as unicorns or god. It's a concept that was invented by people to make people feel better about themselves. Science won't engage with that concept because it's not scientifically relevant. That's why we leave it to philosophers.

2. Human understanding has explained the majority of things that seemed like magic at the time when god was invented to explain those things. We are continuously expanding our understanding and anything that seems far out of reach today has at least a couple of scientific theories on how to accomplish it in the future. Humans have a finite amount of resources and time, so of course it takes time to discover it. And you can be sure that in the future we will actually be able to fix everything in our body and we will understand everything about our body. Because it's all physics and chemistry and we've already figured out most of it.

I find it incredibly insulting when religious people try to fault scientists in their slow progress when religion is one of the major factors holding back scientific progress. Without religion we'd be at least a few hundred years more advanced than we are now.

3. How can you say that the plan is perfect when you cannot understand the plan? And what around you looks in any way perfect? Humans are laughably imperfect beings that constantly stand in their own way. What kind of cool plan involves creating people that hate the concept of you? Hell, all of the imperfections in our universe are basically evidence that there is exactly no plan at all.

4. Science has so far reached physical limits. Unless we somehow manage to surpass the speed of light our reach into the universe will always be small. That we haven't found anything isn't really our fault. The vast majority of the universe is literally outside of our grasp. What kind of idiot would waste so much space just to raise his own little human colony on a tiny insignificant part of it?

And here we are at the end of this whole idiocy. The point that makes religion worthless.

There is a god that has "a plan". The god is either not all powerful, not all seeing or not all benevolent. That is evident by all the pain and suffering. So we can't understand his plan and we get constantly dicked over by him. Now you tell me why I should worship a pathetic little sociopath. So that he can bless me with more misery? Gift me with free will and then punish me for having free will? No. The concept of god as portrayed in abrahamic religions is garbage. If anything there should be nothing but vile contempt for this god. All the "love" he gives us is in no way equivalent to all the pain he dishes out. This is not a god worthy of respect, let alone worship. And as evidence shows god himself doesn't even care about being worshipped. And why would he? He's all powerful, he doesn't need anything from us. God has literally no effect on our lives, just as we have no effect on him. So why even acknowledge such a bastard?

Happiness comes from within, not from god. People can be happy without even having a concept of god, so why put a meaningless face on a thing that everyone can experience regardless? If I can live a happy life while rejecting god, where is the point? Why look up to something that has no evidence to exist while simultaneously also has no influence whatsoever on my life. And since there is no reason to worship a god, there is also no reason to chastise people who do not worship said god. And that is the crux of the whole issue.

Last edited by vivster - on 22 April 2020

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Immersiveunreality said:
tolu619 said:
Yes, I believe in God, as much as I believe in the existence of anyone else I have interacted with personally. He has literally healed my body of a hernia without a surgery (instantaneously too), and He has told me things that would happen years before they happen, or sometimes given me guidance without telling me why, only for me to obey and eventually discover why He said I should take a certain path. I've only read the responses on the first page of this thread, so forgive me if I repeat something someone else has already said. Now let's look at this from a neutral perspective of someone who doesn't believe in God, but is open to the possibility: Looking for a scientific, logical proof of the existence of God is just the wrong way to go about it because by definition, God transcends this physical plane. The only way to scientifically prove God would be to find a way to strip him down to this plane. It's like 2D trying to prove the existence of 3D or a software trying to prove the existence of sentience, for lack of better analogies. I've also learnt years ago that sharing details of my actual experiences with God on the internet serves no purpose to someone who doesn't already believe, because they have no proof that anything I say actually happened. I'm a stranger on the internet and I could be making everything up as I go. It's like trying to describe the taste of a new edible item to someone who has never tasted it. Nothing you say can actually pass across the information at all. But anyone who has tasted it once will understand what you're saying, even if you're embellishing it by saying "it tastes like it, but a bit more sour" or "a bit spicier"

I also believe you can be able to see,feel,hear what you think is god and other things related to him using science.

Our brain is a trickartist that sometimes is fooling ourselves,you can trigger hallicunations with selfhypnose and the most important part is that you need to clear your mind and believe in something to make the brain to fill in the missing information itself with it's own audiovisual images/hallucinations.

You can try it with a sharp looking picture that if you stare at it for a long time and try forgetting it is a picture it might start altering itself in front of you.

You don't know the half of it. I'd love to hear your explanation for when God tells a third party to tell someone (for example, tells a friend to tell me) about something that neither I nor the friend could have otherwise known, and that thing turns out to come true. For example, God once told 3 completely unrelated people to warn me about the same thing, cause it was a life-threatening issue and He needed to drive the point home. Of course, as I said earlier, you have no reason to believe me. I could be making all of this up. But just assume for a second that I'm genuinely saying something that happened to me. How do you explain it away with your brain trick artist angle, or any other explanation you have?

Also, God created science. I've been a science geek since I was 5. Belief in God and science aren't mutually exclusive. I'm seeing a lot of arguments that sound like "God can't exist because.......science", and that makes no sense to me. That's like a computer program that is limited to 1s and 0s saying that human beings/programmers can't exist because they don't stick to the rules of 1s and 0s.



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tolu619 said:
Immersiveunreality said:

I also believe you can be able to see,feel,hear what you think is god and other things related to him using science.

Our brain is a trickartist that sometimes is fooling ourselves,you can trigger hallicunations with selfhypnose and the most important part is that you need to clear your mind and believe in something to make the brain to fill in the missing information itself with it's own audiovisual images/hallucinations.

You can try it with a sharp looking picture that if you stare at it for a long time and try forgetting it is a picture it might start altering itself in front of you.

You don't know the half of it. I'd love to hear your explanation for when God tells a third party to tell someone (for example, tells a friend to tell me) about something that neither I nor the friend could have otherwise known, and that thing turns out to come true. For example, God once told 3 completely unrelated people to warn me about the same thing, cause it was a life-threatening issue and He needed to drive the point home. Of course, as I said earlier, you have no reason to believe me. I could be making all of this up. But just assume for a second that I'm genuinely saying something that happened to me. How do you explain it away with your brain trick artist angle, or any other explanation you have?

Also, God created science. I've been a science geek since I was 5. Belief in God and science aren't mutually exclusive. I'm seeing a lot of arguments that sound like "God can't exist because.......science", and that makes no sense to me. That's like a computer program that is limited to 1s and 0s saying that human beings/programmers can't exist because they don't stick to the rules of 1s and 0s.

Without knowing the exact story, there are tons of possible explanations.

1.  You're lying.  I would generally not accuse people of this, but it's definitely a possibility.  

2.  You're mistaken.  Humans are flawed creatures.  I know that there are times I've been 100% convinced something had happened one way, only to be proven wrong.  Great episode of Seinfeld about this.

3.  Selective memory.  I'm not sure how god communicates with you.  But let's say these people warned you about a plane you are going to go on that wound up crashing.  You forget about the times people told you they had a bad feeling about something and nothing happened.  It's the same reason why a lot of people may be racist.  They remember the negative experiences they had with a person of a particular group, but forget all of the positive or neutral interactions.  

4.  Embellishment.  A variation on count 2, but often times when you here stories like this, they get more specific and extreme with each telling.  A preacher tells a story about how he needed money for his church and a new member of his congregation donated it.  The next time, he needed exactly 4000 dollars and they gave him a check for 4000 dollars.  Next time, god told them in a dream he needed a check for 4000 dollars.  Dishonesty?  Faulty memory?  Maybe a little bit of both.  

5.  We don't know.  Always a good and valid answer when you actually don't know. But go ahead and shoot.  Tell your story, I can tell you what I think.  Of course, right off the bat I gotta say I'm confused as to why god would have to go through such a roundabout way to warn you about something instead of just eliminating the threat himself, or telling you directly.  

As for god and science, I don't believe I've heard anyone say god CAN'T exist because of science.  What I've seen people say is that science is the best model we have of determining what is true about the universe, and that method can not lead you to god.  The head of the human genome project for instance is obviously a brilliant scientist, and is a devout Christian, but does not claim that his belief in god is scientific.



I've taken psychedelics and have been in communication with God. Yes, I believe.



PS5/Arcade Gamer